Comics The Official Civil War Thread

[SpideyInATree]

I would love nothing more then to see that happen but honestly when was the last time Spidey kicked anyone's ass???? Or took matters into his own hands?

Not that long ago. Remember the New Avengers arc? Guess ya didn't.

 

[TwilightPro101]

Ok, I remember reading somewhere that heros would become villians and villians would become heros.
So, which ones are swithcing sides and when?
Is this still gonna happen?

Probably after it is all said and done unless they consider the other factions villians.

 

[Norman Osborn]

Yay!! got most of my comics yesterday....looks as if my Comic book store is going to 2 shipments a month...which is cool by me

Only got a chance to read one though...Civil War 1....which I actually ended up reading twice

Great first issue...Cap blowing through the newly formed Shield task force, jumping out the window on to the plane and then reprimanding the young pilot for "Potty mouth" was just beautiful..(See Marvel...I aint that hard to please)

I really liked the snippet of Agent Hill after Cap disappears "I was just trying to save lives" which to me helps to sink in the concept that although Agent Hill is very easy to hate..(Easy to hate in a "her character is well written" hate as opposed to "And this Morlun fellow is relevant because??" hate) and although clearly Iron Man's team is playing the heels this time around, there is really no clear cut good guy /bad guy....just really severe differences in idealogies....

Marvel has validated my high expecations for this arc thus far!!.....please keep it up boys..(loosely translated..."Don't blow it again!!" )

Edited to add: I also acknowledge the potential this story has as being the gateway to the rebirth of the Spider-man I know and love...yes there may still be claws and odometer resettings..(we can retcon that later) but I'm convinced that Stepford Spidey is going to shove that suit down Stark's throat and call it a day as a member of the Avengers!!!

 

[Ultimate Hero]

Either he'll quit the avengers or the avengers will split in two, and Spidey will follow the half which Cap is commanding, therefore staying on a team that isn't the Avengers and without all the sidekick stuff. I think that could be very cool if written right. Two opposing super hero teams.

 

[Norman Osborn]

Either he'll quit the avengers or the avengers will split in two, and Spidey will follow the half which Cap is commanding, therefore staying on a team that isn't the Avengers and without all the sidekick stuff. I think that could be very cool if written right. Two opposing super hero teams.

I like the idea of two opposing Avenger factions, if it were written by "anyone" other than Bendis ....Bendis simply cannot write 616 Spider-man and the sooner Spider-man leaves the team, the sooner both ASM and NA improve!

 

[tuskenjedi]

How is it that SHIELD has all of these psychics when so many of the mutants were depowered? Aren't most if not all psychics mutant based? And why didn't they send a psychic to check into the entity when it arrived? And couldn't the psychics just get close to the heros and get their identities? I know some heros would have psychic shields, but the bulk of them wouldn't.

What a bunch of crap! I understand suspend your belief when reading a comic and live in the fantasy world, but shouldn't there be some amount of common sense used in the comic so you can suspend your belief?

I guess that would make too much sense.

Keith

 

[shinlyle]

Not that long ago. Remember the New Avengers arc? Guess ya didn't.

Which one?

The one where Spidey got his arm broken by Jigsaw and was unmasked in front of a whoel bunch of b-listers?

How about when the guys int he Savage Land capture him and the rest of the New Avengers and strip them doen to nothing?

Or maybe when all the New Avengers were getting OWNED by the Void? Maybe when they all got pretty much owned by ONE member of the Wrecking Crew?


Sorry, but I have yet to gee Spidey truly kick anyone's ass in this book. He's barely even held his own. None of this would bother me, but it makes it look as though Spidey's incompetent, inexperienced, and uselessin a fight. I'm hoping "Civil War" has some moments in there to remind us what he can really do.

 

[Norman Osborn]

Which one?

The one where Spidey got his arm broken by Jigsaw and was unmasked in front of a whoel bunch of b-listers?

How about when the guys int he Savage Land capture him and the rest of the New Avengers and strip them doen to nothing?

Or maybe when all the New Avengers were getting OWNED by the Void? Maybe when they all got pretty much owned by ONE member of the Wrecking Crew?


Sorry, but I have yet to gee Spidey truly kick anyone's ass in this book. He's barely even held his own. None of this would bother me, but it makes it look as though Spidey's incompetent, inexperienced, and uselessin a fight. I'm hoping "Civil War" has some moments in there to remind us what he can really do.

I may be wrong Shin but I think he was referring to the ASM Hydra arc

 

[Norman Osborn]

How is it that SHIELD has all of these psychics when so many of the mutants were depowered? Aren't most if not all psychics mutant based?

I don't think a psychic requires a mutant gene to be psychic....Dr Strange certainly doesn't....Madame Web..etc

And why didn't they send a psychic to check into the entity when it arrived?

Who's to say they didn't off panel?....if Michael carries the power of a 100,000 mutants I'd have to assume he'd have little problem blocking a psychic

And couldn't the psychics just get close to the heros and get their identities? I know some heros would have psychic shields, but the bulk of them wouldn't.

wasn't that the point of the most previous New Avengers?.....to essentially show Spidey and the rest of the heroes....you guys might as well tell all...cause we're going to get it one way or another

 

[shinlyle]

I may be wrong Shin but I think he was referring to the ASM Hydra arc

Ah!! Okay! I was fixing to say, I have yet to see Spidey effectively do ANYTHING in "New Avengers".

He should have said "The last good arc in ASM"....then I'd have known to what he was referring.

 

[SpideyInATree]

Which one?

The one where Spidey got his arm broken by Jigsaw and was unmasked in front of a whoel bunch of b-listers?

How about when the guys int he Savage Land capture him and the rest of the New Avengers and strip them doen to nothing?

Or maybe when all the New Avengers were getting OWNED by the Void? Maybe when they all got pretty much owned by ONE member of the Wrecking Crew?


Sorry, but I have yet to gee Spidey truly kick anyone's ass in this book. He's barely even held his own. None of this would bother me, but it makes it look as though Spidey's incompetent, inexperienced, and uselessin a fight. I'm hoping "Civil War" has some moments in there to remind us what he can really do.

The "New Avengers" arc from the Amazing Spider-Man.

Someone is still a little bitter about things.

 

[tuskenjedi]

I don't think a psychic requires a mutant gene to be psychic....Dr Strange certainly doesn't....Madame Web..etc



Who's to say they didn't off panel?....if Michael carries the power of a 100,000 mutants I'd have to assume he'd have little problem blocking a psychic




wasn't that the point of the most previous New Avengers?.....to essentially show Spidey and the rest of the heroes....you guys might as well tell all...cause we're going to get it one way or another

Didn't realize that Dr. Strange was a psychic, never read much of him. That's beside the point, exception to every rule. Iron Man acts like there are tons of SHIELD psychics most of the psychics in Marvel have been mutants. My point being House of M was supposed to reduce the number of mutants to 198 and yet it seems as though there are still mutants with powers everywhere you look.

Off panel, maybe they did send one and he probably could block a psychic. I'll give you that one.

Your last point, why not just do it that way then if it is so easy? Then just go after the ones that block their psychics. I always thought that SHIELD already knew almost all of the hero's identities anyway. Nick Fury has been showing up everywhere for years talking to the heros and acknowledging that he knew their identities.

I just think the whole last 12 months of Marvel continuity has been so screwed up and contrived and just so.....mindless. And this is just the straw that has broke my back on the subject. It's as though no serious thought has gone on to make sense in the story lines.

Sure, the House of M sounded like a great idea, same with Avengers Disassembled, and Civil War. But Marvel's execution of all of these events has been so poor and not just the major events even the regular stories have gone down the drain. I think it is mostly from a lack of drawn out thought being put into it. It's like they are just throwing stuff up against the wall to see what sticks and then when something does stick there is no research, no common sense logic, no thought of the future...nothing applied to flesh out the story in a sensible manner!

It seems as though that in the past year or two an awful lot of story lines have been undone in some manner (ie. Hawkeye coming back, Iceman getting his powers back, Collosus is alive, Uncle Ben is back, etc, etc) or the characters have not just grown in their range, but have gone so entirely out of character that they are just shadows of themselves (ie. Spidey being stupid, Tony being deceptive and a traitor, Xavier being a jerk, etc.).

I've been reading Marvel comics exclusively since about 1975 and I will have to say the level of story telling and cohesiveness, not ideas, has dropped so significantly that it is almost difficult to read anymore. I still buy a ton of books, but for the last six months or so my DC books have outnumbered my Marvel books and I used to HATE DC. I thought their characters were so stupid and cartoonish, but not anymore. DC has grown up and Marvel has lost their way. Identity Crisis caught my eye and I have been hooked on DC every since that first issue.

It's just very frustrating to me right now as a Marvel fan and I needed to vent a little. Thanks for listening.

 

[spider greg]

Didn't realize that Dr. Strange was a psychic, never read much of him. That's beside the point, exception to every rule. Iron Man acts like there are tons of SHIELD psychics most of the psychics in Marvel have been mutants. My point being House of M was supposed to reduce the number of mutants to 198 and yet it seems as though there are still mutants with powers everywhere you look.

Off panel, maybe they did send one and he probably could block a psychic. I'll give you that one.

Your last point, why not just do it that way then if it is so easy? Then just go after the ones that block their psychics. I always thought that SHIELD already knew almost all of the hero's identities anyway. Nick Fury has been showing up everywhere for years talking to the heros and acknowledging that he knew their identities.

I just think the whole last 12 months of Marvel continuity has been so screwed up and contrived and just so.....mindless. And this is just the straw that has broke my back on the subject. It's as though no serious thought has gone on to make sense in the story lines.

Sure, the House of M sounded like a great idea, same with Avengers Disassembled, and Civil War. But Marvel's execution of all of these events has been so poor and not just the major events even the regular stories have gone down the drain. I think it is mostly from a lack of drawn out thought being put into it. It's like they are just throwing stuff up against the wall to see what sticks and then when something does stick there is no research, no common sense logic, no thought of the future...nothing applied to flesh out the story in a sensible manner!

It seems as though that in the past year or two an awful lot of story lines have been undone in some manner (ie. Hawkeye coming back, Iceman getting his powers back, Collosus is alive, Uncle Ben is back, etc, etc) or the characters have not just grown in their range, but have gone so entirely out of character that they are just shadows of themselves (ie. Spidey being stupid, Tony being deceptive and a traitor, Xavier being a jerk, etc.).

I've been reading Marvel comics exclusively since about 1975 and I will have to say the level of story telling and cohesiveness, not ideas, has dropped so significantly that it is almost difficult to read anymore. I still buy a ton of books, but for the last six months or so my DC books have outnumbered my Marvel books and I used to HATE DC. I thought their characters were so stupid and cartoonish, but not anymore. DC has grown up and Marvel has lost their way. Identity Crisis caught my eye and I have been hooked on DC every since that first issue.

It's just very frustrating to me right now as a Marvel fan and I needed to vent a little. Thanks for listening.

I'm glad you brought this up, because, for a while I thought I was the only one who thought like this. It seems like a lot of Marvel stuff I read these days are just plain silly, it's almost like I'm reading a parody of my favorite character. There was a story in Spider-man unlimited a while back where the Vulture was sick and threw up on Spidey therefore getting Spidey sick, ( It sounds even more ridiculous as I write this) and he barfs in his mask and the whole story was just a big fat joke and an embarassment to a great character. I like humor as much as the next guy...but come on!!! I'm paying for this.

 

[Norman Osborn]

Your last point, why not just do it that way then if it is so easy? Then just go after the ones that block their psychics. I always thought that SHIELD already knew almost all of the hero's identities anyway. Nick Fury has been showing up everywhere for years talking to the heros and acknowledging that he knew their identities.

Shield and the govt want Super soldiers who are accountable for their actions. A question to you...if you were in a battle for your life, who would you want shoulder to shoulder with you? A pissed off DareDevil whose only fighting because he's being forced to?...or a DareDevil who's aboard because he chooses to be.

...plus if Shield were to simply strong arm the heroes, the likelihood of dissenting factions forming would go up ten-fold ....

The heroes are being asked to register (as opposed to strong arming) because they (Government) rightfully believe it'll lead to a far more effective and cohesive team.

In addition it's a hell of a lot easier to have DareDevil come in and sign his name than chasing him around Hell's Kitchen....this isn't cerebra we're talking about......I'm assuming they'd have to be fairly close for the psychics to read their mind.

Be that as it may...I agree with you that continuity and Marvel don't go hand in hand presently.....I just don't see any problem within the new Civil War arc that doesn't require just a little "suspension of belief"....

...let me qualify my last statement with one word..."Yet!!"

 

[tuskenjedi]

Shield and the govt want Super soldiers who are accountable for their actions. A question to you...if you were in a battle for your life, who would you want shoulder to shoulder with you? A pissed off DareDevil whose only fighting because he's being forced to?...or a DareDevil who's aboard because he chooses to be.

...plus if Shield were to simply strong arm the heroes, the likelihood of dissenting factions forming would go up ten-fold ....

The heroes are being asked to register (as opposed to strong arming) because they (Government) rightfully believe it'll lead to a far more effective and cohesive team.

In addition it's a hell of a lot easier to have DareDevil come in and sign his name than chasing him around Hell's Kitchen....this isn't cerebra we're talking about......I'm assuming they'd have to be fairly close for the psychics to read their mind.

Be that as it may...I agree with you that continuity and Marvel don't go hand in hand presently.....I just don't see any problem within the new Civil War arc that doesn't require just a little "suspension of belief"....

...let me qualify my last statement with one word..."Yet!!"

I see what you are saying, but personally I would want someone helping because they want to. Not because they are mandated to or forced to. Sounds like a good way to get the heros to retire prematurely. Nothing wrong with being accountable, just seems like they've been getting the heros to do what they ask for years without all of this mess.

I think it's a great idea for a story line, it's just that through out the years SHIELD already has most of their identities and cooperation most times anyway.

I'm glad you brought this up, because, for a while I thought I was the only one who thought like this. It seems like a lot of Marvel stuff I read these days are just plain silly, it's almost like I'm reading a parody of my favorite character. There was a story in Spider-man unlimited a while back where the Vulture was sick and threw up on Spidey therefore getting Spidey sick, ( It sounds even more ridiculous as I write this) and he barfs in his mask and the whole story was just a big fat joke and an embarassment to a great character. I like humor as much as the next guy...but come on!!! I'm paying for this.

That's a perfect example of how stupid things have gotten. We're paying good money for this crap! That sounds like something that a 12 year old would right to gross out his friends.

 

[Captivated]

Did Stark set Peter up? Did he know that Pete was going to be caught?

I didn't get that impression. It was like the minute Peter relayed his take on Michael (via the costume) being connected to the House of M that IM said, "Captain, go get Spider-Man out of there now" Of course, then Hill was VERY interested in what they were trying to hide...

 

[Captivated]

I have a story prediction...

After the heroes fight for awhile, some outside threat will unite them in a big "save the world" event. People - ever fickeled - will be gratefull and they will be heroes again.

But, the registration act will be dropped in the end as a matter of simple ECONOMICS.

Think of how much professional atheletes get paid... Think of how many millions ONE fighter jet costs... Think of how much a high crime rate costs a city... So, what kind of a price do you put on an individual who is on call 24/7, who has the power to dramatically cut crime, defend the masses from supervillains and occasionally save the universe from [SIZE=-1]intergalactic threats? Hum?

Right now the super heroes are volunteers, and aside from some battle "clean-up," they provide a HUGE service without compensation. As part of this Act they would become employees of the government. Employees get paid and they can quit.

If people become aware again of their need for the heroes... if they are seen as the superhuman defense system that they are... I'm thinking each Avenger alone could pull down several hundred million a year. And the government will have a choice... add Trillions to the national budget, with all the hardship that would bring, or drop the registration act and be glad they have a superhuman defense system for cheap.

Just a thought...
[/SIZE]

 

[Trask]

I dont know why people find this whole Civil War idea so hard to belive. I find the concept much more interesting than the whole Infinite Crisis of DC comics (altho I did enjoy Identity Crisis which was a good read).

You are all looking at what is happening in Civil War through the eyes of the heroes. I am just surprised it has taken this long for the "normal" people and the government in the Marvel universe to demand for such an action. I am sure SHIELD has a file on most of the heroes (with their secret identity), but they do not have control over the actions of those heroes and they are not there to hold them accountable for the actions they take.

Almost all of the heroes in Marvel work outside the law and are never held accountable for the actions they take. I mean look at all the number of times that Spider-man has been suspected of a crime and he has always been allowed to run loose.

It was inevitable that the people/government would take some kind of action to try and control/monitor the activities of this people. I dont care if they are all doing it out of the goodness of thier heart, you cant just let anyone with power go out dressed in a costume and act as a police force with no one to answer to (especially in a world where more and more mutants with power are being born every day).

If someone wants to be a hero it is a good idea to have that person be trained and registered.

I just hope they dont chicken out in the end and try and return things to stutus co at the end of Civil War. What I would like to see happen is the government/heroes setting up some kind of training schools which people would have to graduate from before they can become heroes (like Xavier's school). Maybe Stark could cofound the new schools with the goverment so that they are not totally run by the government. After they graduate they can work for the goverment/private companies or just do the whole solo act.

I cant see how things can go back to the way they were before this whole thing happened.

 

[MaskedManJRK]

You know what I'd love to see with Spidey in Civil War?

At some point near the end, when there's that big action sequence (and there will be), with all the sides fighting against each other, we see Spider-Man pausing and looking around him...there are constant people in danger around the fight, and every single one of the heroes are so busy fighting each other, Peter sees nothing but people dying from it.

Iron Man yells out an order to Spider-Man. Spider-Man doesn't do anything for a moment...then he switches the suits colors back to the red and blues.

"Peter, what the hell are you doing?!" Iron Man cries out.

"What we should have done a long time ago, Stark," Spidey says, "I'm going to stop taking sides, and start saving lives."

He bows out of the fight, and starts working damage control, because that is what he, as a super hero, is supposed to do. Besides, no one else is taking RESPONSIBILITY for their fight...someone has to.

 

[SpideyInATree]

You know what I'd love to see with Spidey in Civil War?

At some point near the end, when there's that big action sequence (and there will be), with all the sides fighting against each other, we see Spider-Man pausing and looking around him...there are constant people in danger around the fight, and every single one of the heroes are so busy fighting each other, Peter sees nothing but people dying from it.

Iron Man yells out an order to Spider-Man. Spider-Man doesn't do anything for a moment...then he switches the suits colors back to the red and blues.

"Peter, what the hell are you doing?!" Iron Man cries out.

"What we should have done a long time ago, Stark," Spidey says, "I'm going to stop taking sides, and start saving lives."

He bows out of the fight, and starts working damage control, because that is what he, as a super hero, is supposed to do. Besides, no one else is taking RESPONSIBILITY for their fight...someone has to.

Probably something along those lines will happen during the series. We know that Pete is going to eventually turn on Tony. That'd definitely be a "OMFG" moment. Though I'm sure Spidey fans would find a way to complain about it.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

I have a story prediction...

After the heroes fight for awhile, some outside threat will unite them in a big "save the world" event. People - ever fickeled - will be gratefull and they will be heroes again.

But, the registration act will be dropped in the end as a matter of simple ECONOMICS.

Think of how much professional atheletes get paid... Think of how many millions ONE fighter jet costs... Think of how much a high crime rate costs a city... So, what kind of a price do you put on an individual who is on call 24/7, who has the power to dramatically cut crime, defend the masses from supervillains and occasionally save the universe from [SIZE=-1]intergalactic threats? Hum?

Right now the super heroes are volunteers, and aside from some battle "clean-up," they provide a HUGE service without compensation. As part of this Act they would become employees of the government. Employees get paid and they can quit.

If people become aware again of their need for the heroes... if they are seen as the superhuman defense system that they are... I'm thinking each Avenger alone could pull down several hundred million a year. And the government will have a choice... add Trillions to the national budget, with all the hardship that would bring, or drop the registration act and be glad they have a superhuman defense system for cheap.

Just a thought...
[/SIZE]

I was thinking the same thing. A Galactus level threat maybe.

What would be REALLY cool would be to have the Annihilation Armada (the bad guys from that OTHER current Marvel mini series) arrive and attack our planet, uniting Marvel's cosmic heroes AND it's earth-bound ones as well...they could even have some of the villains help out (not unlike DC's Infinite Crisis)....

Yeah. And if that happens, i will eat each and every issue of Civil War, in order, with a pinch of salt.

You heard it here first, folks.

 

[Trask]

Hmmm those all sound like interesting ways for Civil War to go, but they dont really solve the underlieing problem. The way I see it, the problem is that right now anyone with powers can dress up in a custume and go out and do whatever they want as long as they are not agressively breaking the law. And I dont think a huge outside threat or passive resistance will solve the problem. It might delay it, and if Marvel takes this route I will see it as nothing more that a coup out.

The heroes/government need to come up with a solution to the problem. Right now the goverment is taking a strict (and some may say totalitarian) postion on the subject while some of the other heroes are going to the other side of the extreme.

In the end I see the solution as being somewhere in the middle where those who want to work in the costume business will need to go through some training and registration. I think Tony Stark, Reed Richards and Captain America will probably play a major part in setting up the new system of registration and training. I dont think either side will get everything they want but they should get a deal they can live with. Peter may play a major role in getting the two sides to come to some kind of agreement (I have a sneaking suspision that is the reason Tony has been "grooming" him, because I dont think he really wants to give all the power to the state).

 

[Norman Osborn]

Just a question that's been on my mind and I thought I'd throw it out there!

Why would anyone in the MU consider the registration after watching what's going on with DareDevil? The only real charge levied against Matt is obstruction of justice which could easily be levied against any of them if they were to divulge their ID's? Why is it not at least brought up for arguments sake?

 

[Trask]

Just a question that's been on my mind and I thought I'd throw it out there!

Why would anyone in the MU consider the registration after watching what's going on with DareDevil? The only real charge levied against Matt is obstruction of justice which could easily be levied against any of them if they were to divulge their ID's? Why is it not at least brought up for arguments sake?

Point of fact is that almost all the heroes do have at least one of thier villans with knowlege of their secret ID (Even before DD was outed). It is not as if it is a new thing. As for the heroes divulging thier ID, I see the information as being kept by a new organistion like SHIELD who does not divulge the information just to anyone who wants to know.

 

[MaskedManJRK]

Point of fact is that almost all the heroes do have at least one of thier villans with knowlege of their secret ID (Even before DD was outed). It is not as if it is a new thing. As for the heroes divulging thier ID, I see the information as being kept by a new organistion like SHIELD who does not divulge the information just to anyone who wants to know.

Well, SHIELD has had enough f**k-ups and corrupt splinter factions to make any of the heroes nerveous of leaving all their personal information to them.