Wow, 5 bad reviews popped out of nowhere...along with 2 more good ones.
This is a pretty interesting review :
http://blogcritics.org/archives/2007/07/02/005013.php
Movie Review: Transformers (2007)
Written by Jonathan Scanlan
Published July 02, 2007
Transformers is one of those films that the average person will enjoy, and indeed the critics appear dumbfounded with most giving it a thumbs-up for being entertaining. Indeed, a strength of the film is its cheesiness and simplicity.
Yet, contrary to the critics who mostly emphasize it being a fun film, it has a very interesting and complex theme about mankind's relationship with technology behind those visuals. Not one of good versus evil, but of survival by adaptation versus victory by strength.
Similar to 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968), a squarish object is used to explain the origin of intelligent life. Aptly named, the 'all spark' is covered in hieroglyphics, and has the capacity to bring objects to life, but in doing so fosters mania. It is this object that becomes central to the plot, with the Autobots hoping to destroy it, and the Decepticons aspiring to gain advantage by it.
The contrast between the two sides is clearcut. The strength of the former is that they blend into their environment and represent vehicles that are essentially civilian, whereas the latter take the form of vehicles that are effective at conquering their environment. This reflects the duality of technological advancement, where development has historically been driven by the desire for competitive advantage by solving problems.
The role of the humans in the story is also of particular note, because what we find throughout the plot is the tendency for collaboration being key to victory against adversity. While the Transformers have brute strength, humans repeatedly prove that their strength lay in collaboration. A battle against a robotic scorpion, in an early sequence, is just one of the many points where such a network proves useful. Like ants, the strength is in the numbers.
What's more, the human pursuit of knowledge comes across as a two-edge sword. Seeing a bumblebee at the mercy of humans who intend to freeze him for research is just one of a few sequences that reflect the more grizzly aspects of human nature. In a way, it reflects a moral quagmire which asks us if using another living thing in this way is justifiable if the payoff (knowledge and survival) will be of greater value to the population. Kant wins this one.
The film also takes a materialist stance within its rather Darwinian theme. In the aesthetics, the transformers come across as lifelike by being made up of metallic muscles and the necessary skeleton of helmet and armor. And when the US government attempts to examine the severed tail of the robotic scorpion, they accidentally trip a nerve and cause it to flex uncontrollably.
Curiously, the way the transformers can link themselves to technology appears to suggest something more than a mechanical biology but rather that our technology is 'pre-life.' Being complex but lacking a will in the same way that a most basic virus simply processes a chemical-reaction and replicates itself. All of this reflects the current cultural shifts which are product of increasingly reducing human individuality and will to biochemistry.
Today, the greatest mystery to science remains the very origin of life, which by its nature is self-complicating and counter to chemical equilibrium. Yet the 'all spark' denies the use of spiritual answers by being explainable in a sense. It emits a particular kind of radiation, and the transformers even appear to understand something of how it works.
Truth be told, in Transformers (2007) is a lot more than meets the eye. More than mindless fun, transformers asserts a highly rationalist view of the world.
Unfortunately I haven't seen it yet, so maybe he is absolutely right. I also agree critics shouldn't right something off just because it's a summer blockbuster or a comedy or a teen romantic comedy, those genres can work on levels that a movie like It's a Wonderful Life or The Departed doesn't. However, as someone else once said "you can BS things onto Jaws: the Revenge". Just because this guy says it, doesn't mean this stuff is there, nor does it mean it's deep fiction. For example, I know King Lear is a deep, meaningful play because within it are phrases like "It's a pity you were old before you were wise", or for something a little more known to this forum...Blade Runner's monologue delivered by Batty at the end of the film (I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.) you can clearly see the thematic elements and weighted quality of such a line. You can BS anything onto a story, but ultimately you cannot prove it until you can show it to me with some form of direct textual analysis, this guy just seems to be constructed false conclusions off of things...but hey, I could be wrong.I wish more reviewers were capable of this type of insight.
This guy's so good he could put most of the critics out of work with their dismissive "omg, it's teh based on a toy there4 it sucks!!!1!" reviews. That sums up every negative review on rottentamatoes. "Oh noes! it's based on toys so it automatically sucks!!!"![]()
Required reading for people who think the TF mythos has no potential
Unfortunately I haven't seen it yet, so maybe he is absolutely right. I also agree critics shouldn't right something off just because it's a summer blockbuster or a comedy or a teen romantic comedy, those genres can work on levels that a movie like It's a Wonderful Life or The Departed doesn't. However, as someone else once said "you can BS things onto Jaws: the Revenge". Just because this guy says it, doesn't mean this stuff is there, nor does it mean it's deep fiction. For example, I know King Lear is a deep, meaningful play because within it are phrases like "It's a pity you were old before you were wise", or for something a little more known to this forum...Blade Runner's monologue delivered by Batty at the end of the film (I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.) you can clearly see the thematic elements and weighted quality of such a line. You can BS anything onto a story, but ultimately you cannot prove it until you can show it to me with some form of direct textual analysis, this guy just seems to be constructed false conclusions off of things...but hey, I could be wrong.
Only thing I have to say is, with that review......doesn't that kind of put to rest the negatrons complaining that the movie is all explosions and no substance. The fact that two of the biggest Negatrons are basically agreeing with what that reviewer saw in this film proves that you shouldn't judge something before you've seen/read/played or listened to it.
t:Only thing I have to say is, with that review......doesn't that kind of put to rest the negatrons complaining that the movie is all explosions and no substance. The fact that two of the biggest Negatrons are basically agreeing with what that reviewer saw in this film proves that you shouldn't judge something before you've seen/read/played or listened to it.

You know if more than one out of the dozens of reviewers recognized this subtext I would embrace the film.
But the fact that the subtext is lost on 99% of them means these themes/concepts/metaphors are too vague or de-emphasized to be noticed and appreciated by most. They might as well not be there at all if 99% of people don't even notice them.![]()
blind_fury said:You know if more than one out of the dozens of reviewers recognized this subtext I would embrace the film.
But the fact that the subtext is lost on 99% of them means these themes/concepts/metaphors are too vague or de-emphasized to be noticed and appreciated by most. They might as well not be there at all if 99% of people don't even notice them.
I figured out the 2001 connection months ago.
I knew it was possibly a borrowed element or something. what planet have you all been on all this time, negatrons?
"HERE HE COMES TO WRECK THE DAAAYY!"
^As Jim Carrey from Liar Liar
We were having a nice friendly discution here, don't stir things up. There are no more negatron/optimists primes this close to release. Tha Hype is on for everyone!
Although I agree, this close to release we should keep the flames down at least until after everyone has seen the movie. Believe me after the movie is officially released, there will be more flame wars and arguments than you can count. But, Wesyeed is the Yin to B_F Yang lol.
There needs to be that balance of the boards or else the world will end in Anarchy.
Can't wait for this place to explode in a day or two.
Although I agree, this close to release we should keep the flames down at least until after everyone has seen the movie. Believe me after the movie is officially released, there will be more flame wars and arguments than you can count. But, Wesyeed is the Yin to B_F Yang lol.
There needs to be that balance of the boards or else the world will end in Anarchy.
Psh...
![]()
oh, sorry, wrong thread.
LOL. More fueling of the fire.
you are wrong.Unfortunately I haven't seen it yet, so maybe he is absolutely right. I also agree critics shouldn't right something off just because it's a summer blockbuster or a comedy or a teen romantic comedy, those genres can work on levels that a movie like It's a Wonderful Life or The Departed doesn't. However, as someone else once said "you can BS things onto Jaws: the Revenge". Just because this guy says it, doesn't mean this stuff is there, nor does it mean it's deep fiction. For example, I know King Lear is a deep, meaningful play because within it are phrases like "It's a pity you were old before you were wise", or for something a little more known to this forum...Blade Runner's monologue delivered by Batty at the end of the film (I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.) you can clearly see the thematic elements and weighted quality of such a line. You can BS anything onto a story, but ultimately you cannot prove it until you can show it to me with some form of direct textual analysis, this guy just seems to be constructed false conclusions off of things...but hey, I could be wrong.

Yes. I'm hoping the sequel will be the Empire Strikes Back of the franchise rather than The Mummy 2.True, one can only hope that following sequels will have more of this, I guess we'll have to do with these subtle stuff in the first one.
you are wrong.![]()
Fantasy and fiction is not meant to for a single interpretation and conclusive analysis. Some people see the rebel forces fighting the Empire in Star Wars as a metaphor for the the struggle to end the War in Vietnam. Some people see a simple story about good vs evil with taoist mysticism thrown in. Some people thinks it's all just dorky silliness. Who's right and who's wrong?
All of them are right because it doesn't matter what George Lucas intended. Once he puts the fantasy out their for the public to digest he loses creative control. It's how people interpret is where things get really interesting. That's a reason most artist don't interpret their own work for the public. It ruins it for all those who interpreted it differently and added their own spin on it. That's why people hate Midochlorians as an explanation for "the force". Nobody wanted a conclusive answer. The reason it had such a universal appeal is because everyone interpreted differently and felt is was a metaphor for everything from Christianity to Zen Buddhism to something very personal.
It doesn't matter why George Lucas came up with it or the intended meaning. There are thousands of interpretations and they're all right.
So this guys interpretation and perceived metaphors are all correct. You say all his ideas were constructed from his vivid imagination. I say to you that's the whole point of presenting non-fiction and art. To allow people to draw from it whatever their strangely unique minds are capable of.![]()
'Transformers' heavy on plot
CGI techniques bring beloved playthings to life, but the film's focus strays from the toys.
By Kenneth Turan, Times Staff Writer
July 2, 2007
'Transformers'
'Transformers'
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Once upon a time, within the memory of those still living, if a film was successful, it inspired toys and games without number. Now, apparently, it is the other way around.
"Transformers," the new movie by director Michael Bay, is based not on a novel or play or screenwriter's inspiration but on a line of Hasbro toys that have been hot tickets for young boys for more than 20 years and were the basis of several animated TV series and an animated feature. If you're one of the people whose reverence for those toys is next door to a religion, you already know that. If you aren't, there isn't enormous reason to care.
Paradoxically, the problem with "Transformers" is not with those much-beloved playthings, walking Erector Sets whose defining characteristic is the ability to change from robots to cars and other machines and then back again — hence the name "Autobots" for some of them.
Advancement in computer-generated technology — the "Transformers" press material says that the film would not have been possible as recently as three years ago — means that watching these enormous NBEs (Non Biological Extraterrestrials) both come to life and metamorphose is everything fans could hope for. If this film were a lot shorter — it clocks in at an inflated two hours, 23 minutes — and kept its focus on the toys, it would be hard to argue with.
Fearing, however, that even enormous wonder toys can't just tromp around on the screen forever, screenwriters Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman have concocted a narrative to go with the robots. The problem is not only that there is way too much of it but also that it isn't very good.
Some of the back story is a given. Transformers, as any small boy can tell you, come with built-in conflicts in morality. The Autobots — Bumblebee, Jazz, Ratchet, Ironhide and maximum leader Optimus Prime — are the good guys, while the Decepticons, led by bad-as-he-wants-to-be Megatron, want to acquire power first, ask questions never.
Working with John Rogers, with whom they share a story credit, screenwriters Orci & Kurtzman have come up with an acceptable sci-fi frame. Having fought each other for eons on their home planet, the Autobots and Decepticons transfer their battle to planet Earth, where an enormous object called the Cube, or AllSpark, the source of all Transformer life, has improbably ended up.
It's at this point that flesh-and-blood folk enter the story and make us wish they hadn't. Screenwriters Orci and Kurtzman have done quite well with director J.J. Abrams ("Mission: Impossible III" and TV's "Alias" and, one hopes, with the upcoming "Star Trek" vehicle), but their work with other filmmakers, for instance "The Legend of Zorro," has not been impressive.
Unfortunately, though he has a way with CGI toys and action set pieces, director Bay does not have a noticeable gift for making human beings come to life. "Transformers' " multiple earthling story lines are tedious and oddly lifeless, doing little besides marking time until those big toys fill the screen.
Encountered first are a bunch of U.S. military stationed in Qatar, led by Capt. Lennox (Josh Duhamel) and Tech Sgt. Epps (Tyrese Gibson), who make first contact with a particularly ornery bunch of Decepticons. Back in Washington trying to figure out what it means is attractive computer analyst Maggie Madsen (Rachel Taylor) and a somber secretary of Defense played by the reliable Jon Voight.
In fact, for reasons having to do with that all-important Cube, the aliens are looking for improbably named high schooler Sam Witwicky, who spends his time lusting after his first car (he ends up with a Camaro with a mind of its own) and the hottest girl in his 11th-grade class.
That would be Mikaela Banes, whom Sam romances with an iconic line ("There's more to you than meets the eye") from the 1980s "Transformers" cartoon theme song. Much of "Transformers' " human time is spent with these teens, who, as the key audience demographic, are fated to save the world.
As played by Shia LaBeouf and Megan Fox, Sam and Mikaela look as much like 11th-graders as I do, but the film has bigger problems, like keeping everyone interested while the toys are off the screen. Any film whose most resonant line of dialogue is uttered by the robot who says "It's you and me, Megatron" has no business being two hours, 23 minutes long. No matter how good the toys are.
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