Sequels The script is the most important thing...

[SuperDaniel]

Why cant WB offer Paul Dini to write the script instead of Singer and his pack of bad writers....The script is what breakes or makes the movie.

C`mon. Its a win win situation. Paul Dini proved he understands the character with the animated series and Peace on Earth. And he`s proving again with Superman: Doomsday. Just offer the guy to write the script. I seriously doubt he would refuse it.

Singer can even direct but to get someone like Dini as at least a consultant or second writer for the script would be good and put a lot of my fears to rest. They need to get help. However, their ego is way to big for them to admit that.

 

[echostation]

what is Singer manages to pitch in Brainiac (which is pretty much a given), Metallo and Bizarro?

 

[Showtime]

Here we go...Dini and Timm will save us all threads.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Here we go...Dini and Timm will save us all threads.

They can't write the script because they clearly don't fit Singer's style, his approach, how SInger sees Superman.

I love ice cream, but I wouldn't put ice cream in my DVD player.

 

[Showtime]

If Singer is doing the sequel, he wouldn't allow them to write the script. He uses his own writing team and has input on the script. Alot of directors are like this. If Singer isn't doing the sequel I don't think WB would have Dini involved because if they were so confident he was the answer, they would have already done it. They like what Dini does in his field and they have obviously niched him.

 

[Showtime]

They can't write the script because they clearly don't fit Singer's style, his approach, how SInger sees Superman.

I love ice cream, but I wouldn't put ice cream in my DVD player.

I tried that once. It was not a good idea.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

If Singer is doing the sequel, he wouldn't allow them to write the script. He uses his own writing team and has input on the script. Alot of directors are like this. If Singer isn't doing the sequel I don't think WB would have Dini involved because if they were so confident he was the answer, they would have already done it. They like what Dini does in his field and they have obviously niched him.

Exactly, when will people learn this. Plus Dini and Timm have never even written a movie, so what makes people think they are capable of making a good one?

 

[matthooper]

They can't write the script because they clearly don't fit Singer's style, his approach, how SInger sees Superman.

..and that is the problem with the Returns style. Singer made Superman fit his movie themes instead of giving us the actual character of Superman. As I've said before, in every Singer film, he creates characters who are outcasts and searching for their place in the world. Once again with Superman Returns we get the same thing. I assume he feels this way in life, but it's getting old. You can't put all of Singers personal themes on a character that has been around for over 60 years.

Singer is a good director, but he's a poor storyteller. If he hired writers that were not his puppets and had their own independent thoughts. We might get a great sequel. Unfortunately, if we do get a sequel, the same team will be involved.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Dini's Countdown comic blows huge love chuncks. His Detective comics is great though. I hope we all understand that comic writers write bad stories, too. The Punisher movie had a comic writer behind it and it still blew.

 

[Super Kal]

maybe to you...

 

[Super Kal]

edit

 

[wellsy]

..and that is the problem with the Returns style. Singer made Superman fit his movie themes instead of giving us the actual character of Superman. As I've said before, in every Singer film, he creates characters who are outcasts and searching for their place in the world. Once again with Superman Returns we get the same thing. I assume he feels this way in life, but it's getting old. You can't put all of Singers personal themes on a character that has been around for over 60 years.

Singer is a good director, but he's a poor storyteller. If he hired writers that were not his puppets and had their own independent thoughts. We might get a great sequel. Unfortunately, if we do get a sequel, the same team will be involved.

I can understand what you're saying, but in terms of Superman... how can he not feel like an outcast? He only has the hologram of his father. Apart from that, he is the last survivor of a dead planet.

He is alone in the universe. Singer handled that very well, IMO. And he also gets a link with humanity in SR, a way of finding himself as a human, rather than a Kryptonian.

As for Dini and Timm... well, TV is a very different medium to movie. Thus, even though they may have done great work on TV, a movie would be a tough ask. TV series are like books (in serial form), while movies are very much like short stories, and as such, are hard to write (believe me, I know. Try writing a good story with rich characterisation in less than 2500 words, with something a bit more complex than just mindless violence).

 

[Mr. Socko]

This is where Singer's mistakes lye. Instead of hiring a competent screenwriter for his superhero films like Christopher McQuarrie, he just keeps his whackpack with him at all times. They did fine on X-Men, but get the hell off Superman. Hell, they were even creative with X-Men, where did the creative juice go? It's like they tried to write the blandest movie that would require the largest budget they could imagine.

 

[mego joe]

I can understand what you're saying, but in terms of Superman... how can he not feel like an outcast? He only has the hologram of his father. Apart from that, he is the last survivor of a dead planet.

He is alone in the universe. Singer handled that very well, IMO. And he also gets a link with humanity in SR, a way of finding himself as a human, rather than a Kryptonian.

This statement totally ignores the fact that he was raised by humans and loved by his human parents as if he were their own, and raised with the values of American humans in Kansas. The very fact that you think SR shows a way of finding himself as a human makes it obvious that the writers totally do not get the character and his the humanity of the character b/c of how he was raised by the KEnts. That is his connection to humanity and 'how he is human.'

As for Dini and Timm... well, TV is a very different medium to movie. Thus, even though they may have done great work on TV, a movie would be a tough ask. TV series are like books (in serial form), while movies are very much like short stories, and as such, are hard to write (believe me, I know. Try writing a good story with rich characterisation in less than 2500 words, with something a bit more complex than just mindless violence).

I have not doubt they could write a movie, SUperman of Batman, or any charcter they wanted to. According to IMDB, Dini was one of the writers on Batman: Mask of the Phantasm, a theatrical animated Batman film. Also one of the writers was Alan Burnett, another TV writer I believe.

And if I recall I believe B:MOTP was considered the best Batman movie until Begins, yes?

 

[buggs0268]

This statement totally ignores the fact that he was raised by humans and loved by his human parents as if he were their own, and raised with the values of American humans in Kansas. The very fact that you think SR shows a way of finding himself as a human makes it obvious that the writers totally do not get the character and his the humanity of the character b/c of how he was raised by the KEnts. That is his connection to humanity and 'how he is human.'


I have not doubt they could write a movie, SUperman of Batman, or any charcter they wanted to. According to IMDB, Dini was one of the writers on Batman: Mask of the Phantasm, a theatrical animated Batman film. Also one of the writers was Alan Burnett, another TV writer I believe.

And if I recall I believe B:MOTP was considered the best Batman movie until Begins, yes?

Timm also worked on the Batman/Superman movie with Berkowitcz, which is far better in character, tone, and dialog than SR ever could be. And Roger Ebert and Gene Siskel asked why the WB couldn't get them to work on a liv action Batman movie in 1995 when they watched the complimentary Laser Disc of Batman: Mask of the Phantasm after seeing Batman Forever. They actually apologized to Warner's for thinking it just another cartoon when the movie first came out, and how it is leaps and bounds beyond anything the WB had done with it's live action movies. They called for the crew to work on the next Batman movie.

Most real critics who have watched the animated movies or shows have expressed that Dini and crew should work on the movies also. So I don't see why they can't do it. Dini was going to be producer on a live action Batman Beyond movie with him and Timm doing the scripting. The only reason the WB dropped it was the two actors they wanted for the elder Batman Passed on the role-Clint Eastwood and Paul Newman.

 

[fabman]

This is where Singer's mistakes lye. Instead of hiring a competent screenwriter for his superhero films like Christopher McQuarrie, he just keeps his whackpack with him at all times. They did fine on X-Men, but get the hell off Superman. Hell, they were even creative with X-Men, where did the creative juice go? It's like they tried to write the blandest movie that would require the largest budget they could imagine.

They did fine because there were other screenwriters doing rewrites and adding a lot to the scripts.

 

[wellsy]

This statement totally ignores the fact that he was raised by humans and loved by his human parents as if he were their own, and raised with the values of American humans in Kansas. The very fact that you think SR shows a way of finding himself as a human makes it obvious that the writers totally do not get the character and his the humanity of the character b/c of how he was raised by the KEnts. That is his connection to humanity and 'how he is human.'


I have not doubt they could write a movie, SUperman of Batman, or any charcter they wanted to. According to IMDB, Dini was one of the writers on Batman: Mask of the Phantasm, a theatrical animated Batman film. Also one of the writers was Alan Burnett, another TV writer I believe.

And if I recall I believe B:MOTP was considered the best Batman movie until Begins, yes?

Even in spite of his upbringing, he knows he is different. And it is very difficult to be different. Thus, finding a physical connection, someone not so different from himself, and proof that we all really aren't that different, is an important theme. Its just as Admiral Kirk said - Of all the souls I have encountered in my travels, his was the most... human.

And RE B:MOTP, I have no idea (I honestly haven't seen it). That they could pull it off, I can accept. That its guaranteed (as many seem to think) is nothing short of stupid. That doesn't reflect on their ability, but rather, that nothing is certain in the world.

 

[Cyrusbales]

..and that is the problem with the Returns style. Singer made Superman fit his movie themes instead of giving us the actual character of Superman. As I've said before, in every Singer film, he creates characters who are outcasts and searching for their place in the world. Once again with Superman Returns we get the same thing. I assume he feels this way in life, but it's getting old. You can't put all of Singers personal themes on a character that has been around for over 60 years.

Singer is a good director, but he's a poor storyteller. If he hired writers that were not his puppets and had their own independent thoughts. We might get a great sequel. Unfortunately, if we do get a sequel, the same team will be involved.

X-men was good. It was HIS take. Same goes for most of the comic book films.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

Exactly, when will people learn this. Plus Dini and Timm have never even written a movie, so what makes people think they are capable of making a good one?

Every sceenwriter at some point has never written a movie.

This is where Singer's mistakes lye. Instead of hiring a competent screenwriter for his superhero films like Christopher McQuarrie, he just keeps his whackpack with him at all times. They did fine on X-Men, but get the hell off Superman. Hell, they were even creative with X-Men, where did the creative juice go? It's like they tried to write the blandest movie that would require the largest budget they could imagine.

Totally agreed. Funny thing is, they have no writing credits for the first X-Men so I guess they weren't really involved with that one. Then for X2, they have screenplay credits along with David Hayter. Maybe Singer needs Hayter back in the mix.

 

[mego joe]

Even in spite of his upbringing, he knows he is different. And it is very difficult to be different. Thus, finding a physical connection, someone not so different from himself, and proof that we all really aren't that different, is an important theme. Its just as Admiral Kirk said - Of all the souls I have encountered in my travels, his was the most... human.

KNowing it and being affected by it daily are two different things. So hooking up with Lois meant nothing to him? Oh, he couldn't be honest with her, so I guess she didn't mean anything to him.

IT's about balancing that notion of being different, but at the same time fiding acceptance. Either you believe that the KEnts gave him that love and his connection to humanity and he functions or you believe they didn't and he is dysfunctional as in SR. If you believe that I think you are missing the importance of his having been raised by humans. Plus, it is just incongruent with what we know about SUperman. Interesting for a different character perhaps, but it is NOT Superman.

And RE B:MOTP, I have no idea (I honestly haven't seen it). That they could pull it off, I can accept. That its guaranteed (as many seem to think) is nothing short of stupid. That doesn't reflect on their ability, but rather, that nothing is certain in the world.

I highly recommend it. IT is a great film, animated or otherwise.

 

[SuperDaniel]

Dini wrote the animated series, Superman Peace on Earth, Superman Doomsday, Batman mask of the phantasm, Batman & Superman. That is enough for me. He knows the character well enough.He is a writer! Its not THAT hard to write a screenplay. They just need to know the character and he sure does. More than Singer and his "dynamic duo".

 

[Crook]

Here we go...Dini and Timm will save us all threads.

While I wouldn't completely give them script control, I see NO reason not to bring them on as consultants. Those two have brought back Superman/Batman for the new generation when the live-action movies were missing from children's lives. Arguably, they've IMPROVED the characters greatly.

This is why Nolan hired Goyer to come in and write BB. Nolan knew he was a competent director (of which I fully know Singer is as well), but you need to not only understand the character, but the universe and mythos as well. Add enough foresight to predict what is the right vision and tone to bring to today's audience, and you've got yourself the winning formula.

 

[wellsy]

KNowing it and being affected by it daily are two different things. So hooking up with Lois meant nothing to him? Oh, he couldn't be honest with her, so I guess she didn't mean anything to him.

IT's about balancing that notion of being different, but at the same time fiding acceptance. Either you believe that the KEnts gave him that love and his connection to humanity and he functions or you believe they didn't and he is dysfunctional as in SR. If you believe that I think you are missing the importance of his having been raised by humans. Plus, it is just incongruent with what we know about SUperman. Interesting for a different character perhaps, but it is NOT Superman.

I think that, given that Supes had just returned from seeing the remains of his homeworld, that he would feel a bit outcast.

Consider, for example, a toddler, who, for whatever reason, is out of a city when it is destroyed by a nuclear bomb (just work with me here). That toddler, years later, returns to the remains of the city. How do you think he/she would feel?

Quite probably lonely, sad, and weighed down. The survivor would struggle to connect with people, so focused he/she is on his/her sadness (thats the nature of depression).

Jason snapped Supes out of that depression.

Thats how I look at it. If you look at it a different way, thats fine. To each their own.

While I wouldn't completely give them script control, I see NO reason not to bring them on as consultants. Those two have brought back Superman/Batman for the new generation when the live-action movies were missing from children's lives. Arguably, they've IMPROVED the characters greatly.

This is why Nolan hired Goyer to come in and write BB. Nolan knew he was a competent director (of which I fully know Singer is as well), but you need to not only understand the character, but the universe and mythos as well. Add enough foresight to predict what is the right vision and tone to bring to today's audience, and you've got yourself the winning formula.

Though it is by no means guaranteed that it will make MoS super-successful, I second this suggestion.

 

[manofsteel4life]

I think that, given that Supes had just returned from seeing the remains of his homeworld, that he would feel a bit outcast.

Consider, for example, a toddler, who, for whatever reason, is out of a city when it is destroyed by a nuclear bomb (just work with me here). That toddler, years later, returns to the remains of the city. How do you think he/she would feel?

Quite probably lonely, sad, and weighed down. The survivor would struggle to connect with people, so focused he/she is on his/her sadness (thats the nature of depression).

Jason snapped Supes out of that depression.

Thats how I look at it. If you look at it a different way, thats fine. To each their own.



Though it is by no means guaranteed that it will make MoS super-successful, I second this suggestion.

exactly!! most people down the fact Jason was even brought into the movie, but that's what makes the mood change at the end for supes, there was more of a smile on him knowing that jason was his son. Just think of someone trying to take that away from supes now......you'll see a whole diferent side of Superman.....yea emotional...but not SR emotional....MOS EMOTIONAL!!

 

[superbaby]

While I wouldn't completely give them script control, I see NO reason not to bring them on as consultants. Those two have brought back Superman/Batman for the new generation when the live-action movies were missing from children's lives. Arguably, they've IMPROVED the characters greatly.

This is why Nolan hired Goyer to come in and write BB. Nolan knew he was a competent director (of which I fully know Singer is as well), but you need to not only understand the character, but the universe and mythos as well. Add enough foresight to predict what is the right vision and tone to bring to today's audience, and you've got yourself the winning formula.

that's a good idea.
so how to pass it to WB?
btw, what is Paul Dini's comment on SR?