BvS The social commentary in BvS

[Skrilla31]

I'm not sure where it originated from but through many years of reading various forum topics I've come across the following exclamation. Maybe you've heard it before, maybe you haven't. It goes as follows.

Superman is how America sees itself. Batman is how the world sees America.

Now you may agree or disagree with that assessment but it does speak to the larger issue at hand and the huge potential this movie has to really say something relevant. It also begs the question... does the U.S. have the right to function as a world police force? And more importantly should the U.S. step in and function as a world police force? These are questions a movie like BvS could be raising.

Superman and Batman both fight for justice but their methods as you all know are a bit different. I believe the filmmakers have a huge opportunity here with perhaps the 2 biggest icons in American fiction to really make a poignant message not only about the world around us but about truth, justice... and yes the AMERICAN way.

What other kinds of social commentary do you hope to see in BvS?

 

[Reiter]

Dont kid yourself. Neither the US, the UK or any of the powers of the EU care about the slaughtering of innocent protestors in Syria and Egypt. They only play world police force when there's a buck to be made. In Iraq's case, that evil, evil dictator was sitting on a lot of oil.

So before BvS examine the issue, the US needs to be an actual world police force and not do what it actually does.

 

[Skrilla31]

Dont kid yourself. Neither the US, the UK or any of the powers of the EU care about the slaughtering of innocent protestors in Syria and Egypt. They only play world police force when there's a buck to be made. In Iraq's case, that evil, evil dictator was sitting on a lot of oil.

So before BvS examine the issue, the US needs to be an actual world police force and not do what it actually does.

But don't you agree that this movie can examine the issue?

 

[Reiter]

Oh yes, definitely, it could.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Batman should symbolize independence and skepticism.

Superman, the collective dream.

Both have their positives and draw backs.

Batman can see through Lex Luthor's political plots and schemes but he doesn't believe in the people to have the ability to save themselves and tries to fight his war in a covert manner by himself. He makes key decisions that slow down tyranny but one man cannot stop it.

Superman starts off being a pawn and is discouraged but once all seems lost he rises from the ashes and fights back with everything he has. Inspired, normal heroes and other superheroes alike rise to the challenge and Luthors plan begins to crumble.

 

[Skrilla31]

Oh yes, definitely, it could.

Do you fear the movie won't be that smart?

 

[Bwahaha!]

Dont kid yourself. Neither the US, the UK or any of the powers of the EU care about the slaughtering of innocent protestors in Syria and Egypt. They only play world police force when there's a buck to be made. In Iraq's case, that evil, evil dictator was sitting on a lot of oil.

So before BvS examine the issue, the US needs to be an actual world police force and not do what it actually does.

How much of that glorious Iraqi oil did America get in the end? I def am not for the Iraq war, felt hoodwinked into it by W and assumed oil was a motive. But if the US gov somehow got any oil out of it, I as an American never heard about it nor benefited from it (to my knowledge).

As for BvS, I do like themes of one man (SM) being too powerful to exist. It could be a metaphor for a well-intentioned and too-powerful nation.

 

[Reiter]

Do you fear the movie won't be that smart?

No, i am hopeful that it will be. But, even if it lacks social commentary, i will still be satisfied if the characters get good development.

How much of that glorious Iraqi oil did America get in the end? I def am not for the Iraq war, felt hoodwinked into it by W and assumed oil was a motive. But if the US gov somehow got any oil out of it, I as an American never heard about it nor benefited from it (to my knowledge).

You really think they'd let people know? It's also not just about mining the oil, but also controlling its price.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Social commentary in the film is an interesting idea, but I don't know that it's necessary. If it's done well, then fine, but I'll be more than content with just a good Superman/Batman story.

 

[Bwahaha!]

No, i am hopeful that it will be. But, even if it lacks social commentary, i will still be satisfied if the characters get good development.You really think they'd let people know? It's also not just about mining the oil, but also controlling its price.

I think if the US Govt were smart enough to do that they'd have pulled off some scheme to make it look like Iraq really did have WMDs. Which would've incalculably benefited America's image and solved a slew of issues.

Reiter. We may never know the veracity of your assertions. You could be partially right, or all wrong or halfway in between.

This is my last reply on Iraq to keep this thread from derailing. (If nothing else, this proves that no matter his true intentions, there'll never be consensus on SM's intentions.)

 

[Reiter]

Sure, let's drop it, it's off topic. I'll just say this one last thing: Colin Powell was a big stockholder in one of the companies that took over the rebuilding of... Afganistan or Iraq. Or maybe both.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

If Batman is how the world sees America, shouldn't he be fat?

 

[Rowsdower!]

If Batman is how the world sees America, shouldn't he be fat?

And mulleted.

And stupid.

And the Batmobile should look like the General Lee.

 

[Tv's Phil]

I don't mind unless it's heavy handed or on the nose.
Whether it's something I agree with or don't, I'd rather not have social commentary obviously conveyed throughout.

If it's just some people projecting what they think is going on, fine. Whatever.

Just let me enjoy a movie about Superman vs. Batman.

Edit: You have to be careful with it. Some viewers want their action movies to mean something more. If it's not done well enough it'll come off simple or a sophomoric attempt at intelligence.

And most don't care. They'd rather not be preached at by an action movie. They'll see it as over the top, a distraction or taking itself too seriously.(You already know based on MoS that that critique will be used again)

 

[scifiwolf]

This movie can say something social, but only as an exploration of the human condition as a whole (or one specific part of it). I felt Man of Steel played up the immigrant side quite nicely, and the internal conflict when two sides of a person's heritage are at odds with one another. I expect BvS to continue that exploration of polarizing sides, but this time as it comes to ideology. MOS also touches a little on trust vs faith. This is something else I expect to see brought up in a different context in BvS.

It needs to stay as far away from political commentary as it gets, though. Left, right, I don't give a ****. Even when I'm 100% in agreement with a political statement in a movie, it pisses me off to no end that it's there. I like that MOS didn't shy away from Superman's American affiliation, as that omission can be a political commentary in and of itself. Superman is an American character who operates on a global stage. Batman belongs more to a fictional city than a country. If you want to make a social commentary, their differing perspectives of micro vs macro is good narrative fodder.

Whatever commentary is made, it needs to balance both sides.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

People view TDK to be an allegory about the War on Terror.

While I wouldn't want every superhero movie to force some wedge issue in the background sometimes social commentary can add some much needed layers to what many would condemn as shallow and pointless entertainment.

Plus Superman and Batman are great characters to explore certain socio-political conficts. Why waste the opportunity just to make another loud and empty cash-grab action movie.

 

[HaplessHenchman]

No matter what the plot of the movie is, people will see some sort of social commentary in it, usually the one reinforcing their point of view. For example, I remember some libertarians saying that MOS was about how the government could not be relied upon or trusted so you had to look out for yourself (presumably like SM does). Point is, people will see what they want to see most of the time even if what they want to see isn't even there. (<- Did that make any sense?)

 

[king666]

No matter what the plot of the movie is, people will see some sort of social commentary in it, usually the one reinforcing their point of view. For example, I remember some libertarians saying that MOS was about how the government could not be relied upon or trusted so you had to look out for yourself (presumably like SM does). Point is, people will see what they want to see most of the time even if what they want to see isn't even there. (<- Did that make any sense?)

Makes sense.

But seriously, whatever. I'm ok with social commentary and I'll be fine as long as they don't go like "big corps are awesome!" or "big government rules!".

 

[Skrilla31]

People view TDK to be an allegory about the War on Terror.

While I wouldn't want every superhero movie to force some wedge issue in the background sometimes social commentary can add some much needed layers to what many would condemn as shallow and pointless entertainment.

Plus Superman and Batman are great characters to explore certain socio-political conficts. Why waste the opportunity just to make another loud and empty cash-grab action movie.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Wasn't there talk about all this when it was said Batman would control things around Gotham with an iron grip with his Bat-Drones?

 

[Steyin]

I can honestly go without any social commentary for this film.

 

[Guts]

Wasn't there talk about all this when it was said Batman would control things around Gotham with an iron grip with his Bat-Drones?

That would be a nice reference to Kingdom come. But the majority of the people would see it as social commentary.

 

[Rodrigo90]

That would be a nice reference to Kingdom come. But the majority of the people would see it as social commentary.

It would be, yes.

Superman is what America sees itself. All positive and heroic.
Whereas the Bat Drones would be something post 9 11. Him keeping an eye out on all of the citizens and crime with weaponized security machines.

 

[BatLobster]

Regarding the original quote in this thread...I believe Hans Zimmer was the one who said that.

Has that been said before though? Just a genuine question. It was a notion I hadn't ever really considered until I heard the Zimmer quote.

Interesting topic btw.

 

[Psycho_Sith]

Dont kid yourself. Neither the US, the UK or any of the powers of the EU care about the slaughtering of innocent protestors in Syria and Egypt. They only play world police force when there's a buck to be made. In Iraq's case, that evil, evil dictator was sitting on a lot of oil.

So before BvS examine the issue, the US needs to be an actual world police force and not do what it actually does.

Knew this was gonna go the way of politics when I read the title of the thread.

Now I'm gonna right off the bat state I always believed, and still do, the Iraq War (OIF) was a bad decision all around...and I say this as a 13-year veteran of the Army (and I'm Infantry).

BUT...that whole "Oil" argument about that war is total, 100%, unfounded, "progressive", thin ******** of a cheap "reason".

Our country put so much money and blood into fighting that war, we would never see half of it back financially in some sort of "blood for oil" or whatever people want to label that as...never. There is zero evidence pointing to the US getting any sort of oil "gains" from OIF.

If you weren't there or you don't work for the Pentagon or State Department, you don't know **** about it. We didn't give two craps about their oil as soldiers, we just smashed everyone in our way of where we were told to go. Sure, the US meddles, and it shouldn't, but thank Harry S. Truman for that ongoing policy (in case you don't know history).

Anyway...I dont see BvS doing some social commentary of "Superman is how America sees itself. Batman is how the world sees America." More of a 'nobody trusts anybody' angle.