The Warmonger Thread

Then you are asking for the possible break down of the region. China would possibily fall in line with N Korea. Japan would side with us, as would S. Korea. China could use the tension to open up struggle with Taiwan. This could cause splintering within the International Community. Russia would possibily fall in line with China and N. Korea. Because it would benefit their own Regional Stability. Iran falls into supporting Russia. EU backs the United States.

What then?

WW3?

I already think China is mobilizing troops because they plan to take Taiwan. Since they own a majority stake in the United States they probably assume we wouldn't do anything. Then again how could anyone be that stupid?

Or we could let Japan or North Korea shoot it down and then just back them up. We tend to let other countries take the blame until they are in real trouble. I also feel that if Russia and whomever else sides with North Korea on this should have their U.N. pass (or whatever it is that allows them in) revoked. I'm tired of talking with these people. Everything was going fine then the North Korean president had some kind of chemical imbalance and is now all pissed off again wanting to test fire long range missles that can hit Hawaii. I'm sorry but firing the missle to me is an act of aggression when quite a few countries have told them already to back off and not fire it.
 
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A recent satellite photo shows the missile on the launch pad.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/03/30/north.korea.rocket/index.html
Image shows North Korea rocket on launch pad

* Story Highlights
* Satellite imagery shows rocket at launch site in northeastern North Korea
* North Korea says it will launch a commercial satellite atop a rocket between April 4-8
* U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates says rocket aims to boost military capability
* U.S. Navy ships capable of shooting down missiles moved to Sea of Japan
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(CNN) -- A North Korean rocket slated for launch sometime early next month can be clearly seen in a satellite photograph taken Sunday, the Institute for Science and International Security said Sunday.
The latest satellite image shows a rocket sitting on its launch pad in the north east of the country.

The latest satellite image shows a rocket sitting on its launch pad in the north east of the country.
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1 of 2
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The satellite imagery, obtained by the ISIS from DigitalGlobe, is said to show the rocket at the Musudan-ri launch site in northeastern North Korea. The image casts a shadow on the ground below.

CNN could not independently confirm the information provided by the institute, led by former U.N. nuclear inspector David Albright. Defense Department officials were not immediately available for comment.

U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Sunday there is little doubt that the planned launch is designed to bolster that North Korea's military capability.

He also indicated that the U.S. military could be prepared to shoot down a North Korean missile if the rogue regime develops the capability to reach Hawaii or the western continental United States in a future launch.

The North Korean government says it will launch a commercial satellite atop a rocket sometime between April 4 and April 8.
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* In-depth: North korea: Nuclear tension

"I don't know anyone at a senior level in the American government who does not believe this technology is intended as a mask for the development of an intercontinental ballistic missile," Gates said during an appearance on "Fox News Sunday."

Gates noted that while the United States believes it is North Korea's "long-term intent" to add a nuclear warhead to any such missile, he "personally would be skeptical that they have the ability right now to do that."

Japan recently mobilized its missile defense system -- an unprecedented step -- in response to the planned North Korean launch, Japanese officials said.

The move, noteworthy for a country with a pacifist constitution, is aimed at shooting down any debris from the launch that might fall into Japanese territory.

In a concurrent response, U.S. Navy ships capable of shooting down ballistic missiles are being moved to the Sea of Japan, a Navy spokesman said Thursday.

Gates said that the U.S. military could shoot down "an aberrant missile, one that was headed for Hawaii ... or something like that, we might consider it, but I don't think we have any plans to (do) anything like that at this point."

He does not believe North Korea currently has the technology to reach Alaska or Pacific coast.

Gates said that impending missile launch is a clear demonstration of the failure of the recent six-party talks to disarm the North Korean regime.

"It's very troubling. The reality is that the six-party talks really have not made any headway any time recently," he said.
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"If (the missile launch) is Kim Jong-Il's welcoming present to a new president ... it says a lot about the imperviousness of this regime in North Korea to any kind of diplomatic overtures."

Gates said that he believes economic sanctions are the best tool to getting countries like North Korea and Iran to the negotiating table. Both countries are believed by the United States and other Western nations to be trying to acquire a nuclear capability.
 
Yep, I saw that.....


This is getting hairy....
 
Yep, I saw that.....


This is getting hairy....
It certainly is. So is the situation between Israel and Iran.




By Jon Swaine
Last Updated: 1:12AM GMT 30 Jan 2009

Mr Netanyahu said that while economic problems could ultimately be reversed, there could be no going back if Tehran succeeded in its "100-yard dash" to building a nuclear bomb.

The former Israeli finance minister and favourite to become the next Israeli prime minister said: "What is not reversible is the acquisition of nuclear weapons by a fanatic radical regime committed to a pre-medieval view of the world.



"We have never had, since the dawn of the nuclear age, nuclear weapons in the hands of such a fanatical regime," he told a discussion at the World Economic Forum in Davos that also included David Cameron, the Conservative leader.

Iran has denied it is seeking to acquire nuclear weapons and says it is pursuing nuclear power for peaceful uses.

Mr Netanyahu said that if the Iranian rulers were "neutralised," the danger posed to Israel and others by Hamas in Gaza and Hezbollah militants in south Lebanon would be reduced.

"I think we are going to have to deal with neutralising the power of the mother regime," he said. "The Hamas stronghold would be about as important, if Iranian power was neutralized, as Cuba was when the Soviet Union became irrelevant."

As prime minister, he said, he would "move rapidly to advance a workable peace" with moderates in the Palestinian Authority and work to "drive down the radicals."

He said he saw no chance of peace with Hamas, asking: "What agenda can you have against an organisation who seeks to obliterate you off the face of this earth?"

Later at Davos, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the Turkish prime minister, stormed out of a heated debate on the Gaza conflict with Shimon Peres, the Israeli president.

And today, this.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...yahu-takes-office-with-a-warning-to-Iran.html
By Joshua Mitnick in Tel Aviv
Last Updated: 5:42PM BST 31 Mar 2009

This implicit reference to Iran came as Mr Netanyahu presented his government to the 120-member parliament, or Knesset. The new administration is dominated by the hard Right, with Avigdor Lieberman, the leader of the ultra-nationalist Yisrael Beitenu party, becoming foreign minister.

Mr Netanyahu's return to power at the helm of a hardline coalition raises fears that Israel will resist President Barack Obama's bid to revive the peace process with the Palestinians. However, the presence of the Labour party in the government - Ehud Barak, its leader, is staying as defence minister - provides some balance.

Addressing the Knesset at his government's inauguration, Mr Netanyahu's speech was filled with implicit references to Iran. "Extremist Islam" posed a great threat, he said, but there was "no question mark over the state of Israel's existence. We won't let any person or state to put a question mark over our existence".

The new prime minister added: "The biggest danger to humanity, and to our state Israel, stems from the possibility that a radical regime will get nuclear weapons, or a nuclear weapon will be armed by a radical regime."

Mr Netanyahu pledged to isolate "radical Islam" and called for the help of moderate Arab staes. "Today this aspiration is bolstered by a common interest between Israel and the Arab states against the fanatical obstacle that threatens all of us," he said, in another oblique reference to Iran, which is a common enemy of both Israel and Arab countries.

Mr Netanyahu, the leader of the Right-wing Likud party, offered some conciliatory words. Addressing the Palestinian leadership, he said: "If you truly want peace, peace can be obtained."

I really cant blame Israel much for feeling hawkish, but I dont know how much diplomacy can be achieved when this is one of the first things out of your new PM's mouth.
 
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There's something ominous in that statement

Link
[link to mdn.mainichi.jp]

At 8:30 a.m., Aso left his residence to go for a walk. When asked by reporters, "Will the missile (launch) be today," he did not reply.

At 8:40, Deputy Chief Cabinet Secretary for Crisis Management Tetsuro Ito entered the prime minister's office, followed by Director of Cabinet Intelligence Hideshi Mitani at 8:55 a.m. At 9 a.m. Konoike went into an office saying, "Be prepared and have no regrets."
 
I'd care more if I knew where they were pointing it.

/sad but true
 
According to a Russian News Report Saturday to Wednesday they will launch.
 
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,512578,00.html
Everything Seems Ready for North Korea Rocket Launch

Saturday, April 04, 2009

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GeoEye Satellite Image

The launchpad in North Korea which houses the three-stage Taepodong-2 missile.

The launchpad in North Korea which houses the three-stage Taepodong-2 missile.



SEOUL, South Korea — Everything North Korea would need to launch a rocket appears to be in place, a senior U.S. official told FOX News.

"It would seem everything is aligned and ready," the official said.

The weather conditions appear to be favorable with no precipitation or wind concerns.

In the past, North Korea has attempted launches at dawn, and not in the midday window as Pyongyang announced last month.

The senior official said the U.S. will know "immediately" if and when a rocket is launched — suggesting all eyes are trained on the launch site.

There was no expectation within the intelligence community that the rocket would go up "on the first tick" of the April 4 to 8 window because the government often seems to build momentum, the source told FOX News.

Click to view photos | Satellite image of the launch area

FAST FACTS: A Glance at North Korea's Missile Arsenal.

Click to read the Korean War Armistice Agreement.

High winds may have forced North Korea to delay its rocket launch Friday, despite the country's insistence Saturday that preparations were complete for the liftoff that many suspect is intended to test the country's long-range missile capabilities.

Regional powers deployed warships and trained their satellites on the communist country to monitor what they suspect will be a test for a missile capable of reaching Alaska.

Preparations for sending "an experimental communications satellite" into space were complete, North Korea's state-run media said in a dispatch Saturday morning, adding, "The satellite will be launched soon."

However, the day's stated 11 a.m. to 4 p.m. timeframe passed without any sign of a launch.
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Winds reported as "relatively strong" around the northeastern North Korean launch pad in Musudan-ri may have kept the North from launching the rocket Saturday, analyst Paik Hak-soon of the private Sejong Institute think tank said.

"North Korea cannot afford a technical failure," he said. "North Korea wouldn't fire the rocket if there's even a minor concern about the weather."

Japan again urged North Korea to refrain from a launch that Washington, Seoul and Tokyo suspect is a guise for testing the regime's long-range missile technology — a worrying development because North Korea has acknowledged it has nuclear weapons and has repeatedly broken promises to shelve its nuclear program or halt rocket tests.

"The launch will damage peace and stability in Asia. We strongly urge North Korea to refrain from it," chief Japanese government spokesman Takeo Kawamura said Saturday, adding that it would violate a U.N. Security Council resolution barring the country from ballistic missile activity.

President Barack Obama said Friday that a launch would be "provocative" and prompt the U.S. to "take appropriate steps to let North Korea know that it can't threaten the safety and security of other countries with impunity."

Chinese President Hu Jintao, meeting Friday with South Korea's Lee Myung-bak, agreed the launch would "negatively affect peace and stability in Northeast Asia and there should be a discussion among related countries" after it takes place, Lee's office said.

"Respective nations made efforts to urge North Korea to refrain from the launch. But if North Korea really plans to launch, it is very regrettable," Japanese Foreign Minister Hirofumi Nakasone told reporters Saturday.

U.N. Security Council diplomats said a draft resolution was circulating that could reaffirm and tighten enforcement of the demands and sanctions of a resolution passed in October 2006 after a North Korean nuclear test.

Stephen Bosworth, the U.S. envoy on North Korea, promised consequences if the launch goes ahead but a strong united response might be elusive since China and Russia hold veto power in the council and could argue that nonmilitary space missions are exempt.

Taking no chances, Japan deployed warships and Patriot missile interceptors off its northern coast to shoot down any wayward rocket parts that the North has said might fall over the area, saying it is only protecting its territory and has no intention of trying to shoot down the rocket itself.

North Korea threatened retaliation against any interception of the satellite, telling Japan such a move would mean "war," and said American U-2 spy planes would be shot down if they broach its airspace.

In a sign of jitters in Japan, public broadcaster NHK quoted the government as saying North Korea appeared to have launched a rocket, then quickly retracted the story.

Kawamura said information provided by the Defense Ministry was incorrect. "We put out the wrong information, and we apologize to the public for causing worries," he told reporters.

Observation cameras and radars that North Korea installed near the launch pad were not activated Saturday, the Yonhap news agency quoted an unnamed South Korean government official as saying. South Korea's Defense Ministry said it was trying to confirm the report.

With tensions rising in the region, Bosworth said he was prepared to go to North Korea after the "dust from the missiles settles" in order to restart six-nation negotiations aimed at getting the North to abandon its nuclear program.

North Korea also is holding two American journalists accused of crossing into the country illegally from China and engaging in "hostile acts." Euna Lee and Laura Ling, reporters for former Vice President Al Gore's Current TV media venture, were detained last month.

A South Korean who works at a joint economic zone in the northern border town of Kaesong also remained in North Korean custody Saturday for allegedly denouncing the North's political system and inciting female North Korean employees to flee the communist country.

The South Korean government urged citizens working at joint economic zones and in Pyongyang to return home because of the "grave" tensions on the peninsula. More than 600 South Koreans left North Korea on Saturday, the Unification Ministry said in Seoul.

It'll be interesting to see what happens.
 
According to a Russian News Report Saturday to Wednesday they will launch.

Yes, there are pics of it on the launch pad......which means it is probably full of fuel, and if so.....it will be launched with 2 maybe 3 days because that stuff cannot stay in there for more than a few days....
 
N. Korea launched the Rocket!

SEOUL, South Korea – North Korea defied international warnings and sent a rocket hurtling over the Pacific on Sunday, a launch President Barack Obama called an illicit test of the regime's long-range missile technology that threatened the security of nations "near and far."

Obama and European Union leaders meeting in Prague condemned the move and said North Korea's dangerous defiance demanded an international response. Diplomats at the United Nations scheduled an emergency Security Council session for later Sunday to discuss what Obama called a clear violation of U.N. resolutions.

South Korea and the U.S. military disputed North Korea's claim of a successful launch into space, saying the rocket fell into the ocean in stages.

"North Korea broke the rules once more by testing a rocket that could be used for a long-range missile," Obama said. "This provocation underscores the need for action — not just this afternoon at the U.N. Security Council, but in our determination to prevent the spread of these weapons."

He said the launch threatened the security of countries "near and far."

North Korea says it successfully sent its "Kwangmyongsong-2" satellite into orbit as part of its peaceful bid to develop its space program. The claim comes just days before North Korea's authoritarian leader, Kim Jong Il, presides over the first session of the country's new parliament in his first major public appearance since reportedly suffering a stroke last August.

The U.S. and South Korea say no satellite or other object reached orbit Sunday, and joined Japan and other countries in accusing the North of using the launch to test the delivery system for its long-range missile technology — a step toward eventually mounting a nuclear weapon on a missile capable of reaching Alaska and beyond.

"North Korea's development of a ballistic missile capability, regardless of the stated purpose of this launch, is aimed at providing it with the ability to threaten countries near and far with weapons of mass destruction," a joint EU-U.S. statement said.

Liftoff took place at 11:30 a.m. (0230 GMT) from the coastal Musudan-ri launch pad in northeastern North Korea, the South Korean and U.S. governments said. The multistage rocket hurtled toward the Pacific, reaching Japanese airspace within seven minutes. Warships did not activate interceptors because no debris appeared to hit its territory, officials in Tokyo said.

Four hours after the launch, North Korea declared it a success. An experimental communications satellite reached outer space in just over nine minutes and was orbiting Earth, the state-run Korean Central News Agency said from Pyongyang.

"The satellite is transmitting the melodies of the immortal revolutionary paeans 'Song of Gen. Kim Il Sung' and 'Song of Gen. Kim Jong Il' as well as measurement data back to Earth," it said, referring to the country's late founder and his son, its current leader.

But South Korea's defense minister and the U.S. military disputed that account. North American Aerospace Defense Command and U.S. Northern Command officials said in a statement that the first stage of the rocket fell into the waters between Korea and Japan, while the two other stages, and its payload, landed in the Pacific Ocean.

The launch was a bold act of defiance against Obama, Japanese leader Taro Aso and other leaders who pressed North Korea in the days leading up to liftoff to cancel a move they said would threaten peace and stability in Northeast Asia.

Aso called the launch "an extremely provocative act that cannot be overlooked."

"The North Korea missile test today is completely unacceptable. It's a breach of international obligations. It will be condemned in every country across the world and they should desist from testing and proliferating nuclear weapons," British Prime Minister Gordon Brown said.

China, North Korea's main source of economic aid and diplomatic support, urged all sides to maintain calm and exercise restraint. It offered to play a "constructive role," though some say it could use its veto power to block a unified response to the launch at the Security Council.

Russia, which shares a border with North Korea, also called for calm. "We urge all states concerned to show restraint in judgments and action in the current situation, and to be guided by objective data on the nature of North Korea's launch," a Foreign Ministry statement said.

Saying the launch violates Resolution 1718, part of efforts to force North Korea to shelve its nuclear program and halt long-range missile tests, Japan's U.N. mission immediately requested a meeting of the 15-nation Security Council, spokesman Yutaka Arima said. Mexico, which holds the 15-nation council's presidency this month, set the meeting for 3 p.m. EDT (1900 GMT), spokesman Marco Morales said.

U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said he regretted North Korea's move "against strong international appeal" at a time when nuclear disarmament talks involving six nations remain stalled.

"Given the volatility in the region, as well as a stalemate in interaction among the concerned parties, such a launch is not conducive to efforts to promote dialogue, regional peace and stability," Ban said in a statement from Paris.

At the United Nations, diplomats have begun discussing ways to affirm existing sanctions on North Korea. Envoys said permanent council members U.S., Britain and France are unlikely to secure agreement on new sanctions from veto holders Russia and China. They spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the discussions.

North Korea, which says its participation in a U.N. space treaty protects its right to send a satellite into orbit, took pains to alert international maritime and aviation authorities of the rocket's flight path, in marked contrast to 2006, when it carried out a surprise launch of a similar Taepodong-2 long-range missile that fizzled 42 seconds after takeoff.

"Even if a satellite was launched, we see this as a ballistic missile test," Japan's chief Cabinet spokesman Takeo Kawamura said.

Japan had threatened to shoot down any debris from the rocket if the launch went wrong, and positioned batteries of interceptor missiles on its coast and radar-equipped ships in its northern seas to monitor the liftoff. Russia also scrambled fighter jets to monitor the launch, while U.S. and South Korea sent warships to nearby waters, reports said.

South Korea, which technically remains at war with the North because their three-year conflict ended in 1953 in a truce rather than a peace treaty, put its forces on heightened alert.

North Korea, one of the world's poorest nations, has backed off a disarmament-for-aid pact with five other nations that calls for dismantling its rogue nuclear program in exchange for much-needed energy, oil and other aid.

Amid the controversy over the rocket launch, North Korea announced last week it would put two American reporters detained at the border with China on trial for allegedly entering the country illegally and engaging in "hostile acts."

Laura Ling and Euna Lee, reporters for former U.S. Vice President Al Gore's Current TV media venture, were seized by North Korean soldiers on March 17


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090405/ap_on_re_as/as_nkorea_missile
 
yep, we have a thread on this......I guess we'll just have to wait and see what the UN Security Council comes up with when they meet today about it.
 
The missile may have fallen into the ocean but it will be interesting to see what fallout from the test comes about. Obama said he wants consequences for when someone breaks the rules.
 
The missile may have fallen into the ocean but it will be interesting to see what fallout from the test comes about. Obama said he wants consequences for when someone breaks the rules.


This is the UN we are talking about.......

:whatever:
 
How hard can it be to pay them off? We're America, the richest....


Damn. :csad:


I believe 51.????% of the UN budget is paid by us......but for some reason we have 0% clout.
 

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