The Winter Soldier vs. Civil War.

[Charzhin0]

The Winter Soldier easily. Tighter story and genuinely intriguing start to finish.


Civil War is over rated imo. The ending made it seem like The Avengers were split irreversibly, but eventually the fracture is irrelevant pretty quickly soon as Thanos attacks earth in IW. The conflict in Cap and Starks relation didn't feel that big of a deal to me, or at least how the Russo’s intended it to, when Cap immediately at the end sends Tony an apology letter. Like couldn't he do that in the first place? The whole ''Civil War'' aspect is also pretty convoluted. The airport fight is very neat in isolation but story wise it has little dramatic impact and seems silly they are throwing cars and exploding planes at each other (in a public airport that’s seemingly their playground now) when most are friends. There's other silly stuff like Stark recruiting Spidey to the fight risking another teen when earlier in the movie he's mega guilty about some random kid who died in Sokovia. And the movie shifts narrative focus too much. The 1st act of the movie is about the matters of superhero registration and the Sokovia Accords (which was interesting and I hoped they discussed more of). Then the movie abruptly shifts to a story of chase & capture Bucky. Then it ends with Zemos contrived plan of getting Stark and Cap to fight about Tonys parents assassination (which is incredibly coincidental, a murder captured perfectly on camera in the middle of a desert road?). So the movie ends where the Accords and issue of superhero responsibility has nothing to do with the final conflict. It's a, ''you killed my mom'' revenge duel. In X-men First Class, the opening of the movie shows Erics mom getting murdered and the whole movie is progressing to the point where Eric gets his revenge in the finale and its satisfying. That's why Civil War feels incomplete to me, because Tony only learns that Cap knew about Buckys past literally seconds before their fight. If he knew about it earlier in the movie, the tension and hatred towards Cap could have been built up more methodically. As it's presented its a quick, ''let off some steam'' and shake hands scenario which is unsatisfying to me as its rushed. The movie could start with the last 40 minutes and you wouldn't miss anything important in the first 2/3ds.

 

[Docker2.0]

Voted Winter Soldier but I absolutely loved Civil War. I do wonder what would have happened if Civil War went head to head with BvS.

 

[Filmfan93]

Voted Winter Soldier but I absolutely loved Civil War. I do wonder what would have happened if Civil War went head to head with BvS.

Well, then BvS would make even less at the BO than it did

On a serious note, it would hurt both films' box office, but Civil War still would come out on top and affect BvS' word of mouth even more negatively.

 

[psylockolussus]

Winter Soldier.

 

[InCali]

Well, then BvS would make even less at the BO than it did

On a serious note, it would hurt both films' box office, but Civil War still would come out on top and affect BvS' word of mouth even more negatively.

Yeah. As I recall, BvS broke strong on the first weekend and then fell off a cliff. Without that opening, it would have been even more of an unmitigated BO disaster (Not sure if that last part really makes any sense, but you get the idea LOL). CW would have been fine, but, yeah, it would have done some damage to its BO numbers.

 

[Filmfan93]

Yeah. As I recall, BvS broke strong on the first weekend and then fell off a cliff. Without that opening, it would have been even more of an unmitigated BO disaster (Not sure if that last part really makes any sense, but you get the idea LOL). CW would have been fine, but, yeah, it would have done some damage to its BO numbers.

I agree. Weren't the two films initially supposed to come out throughout the same weekend? Who backed down in the end?

 

[psylockolussus]

I agree. Weren't the two films initially supposed to come out throughout the same weekend? Who backed down in the end?

Bvs.

 

[BoredGuy]

Hey if you saw dude's launching water trucks and plane wings like Frisbee's you'd be getting the hell out of dodge to

lol true
but that was well into the fight!
you'd think there would've at least been some people scrambling out of the terminal when Bucky Falcon and Spidey started fighting
but nope, they musta been closed that day

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Civil War. More emotional and it did a better job of carrying its themes through to the end. It always kind of bugged me a bit about how TWS wimps out at the end by just having the villains be generic Nazis. It starts by trying to present a very real issue regarding security vs. independence and instead of trying to truly tackle it, they just make the one side mustache-twirling evil. It doesn't commit to its premise the whole way through. Civil War doesn't do this. Ultimately, even though Cap is proven right in the end, it is far messier and complicated, and the film ends with both sides severed and unable to come to accord (which carries over into the Thanos movies). Even Zemo isn't as black and white as the villains in TWS. That scene he has with Black Panther at the end where he explains himself is one of my favorite of any comic book film.

I also think the airport battle and the final Cap&Bucky vs. Iron Man fight are better than any of the fights in TWS, so it has that going for it as well.

 

[Charzhin0]

Civil War. More emotional and it did a better job of carrying its themes through to the end. It always kind of bugged me a bit about how TWS wimps out at the end by just having the villains be generic Nazis. It starts by trying to present a very real issue regarding security vs. independence and instead of trying to truly tackle it, they just make the one side mustache-twirling evil. It doesn't commit to its premise the whole way through. Civil War doesn't do this.

Civil War does do that. It starts out with ideas of a superhero registration act with the Sokovia Accords as a central objective of discussion. It's shown that Scarlett Witch and Iron Man have caused innocent deaths which troubles them and the Avengers have a massive internal conflict over what the right thing is to do. Fast forward to the end and the Cap vs IM fight has nothing really to do with the original struggles of the movie. It's a 'you killed my mom revenge fight' with the most contrived possible ways to reach it with the silly camera happens to be in the perfect spot on a random road to record the assassination plot convenience to top it off.

Winter Soldier starts out with independence/freedom of surveillance issues and ends with it as Cap is actively trying to take down the helicarriers that are presented in the opening 30 minutes as necessary by Fury. This is why the story is said by many to be tighter and coherent. Bucky has a direct connection to Hydra and Cap which is why the ending works on a emotional level as Cap is willing to be killed by Bucky rather than Cap killing him because he is his childhood friend. Civil War ends in a fight where Stark is really behaving like a child without any reasonable grasp of the situation. He knows how Hydra works and how it brainwashes assassins, so him taking out his short lived anger on Cap and Bucky with the ''i dont care he killed my mom'' line isn't as emotional as the ending of WS, ''im with you until the end of the line''

 

[Appfanincaaland]

Captain America: The First Avenger is the best Cap film.

 

[Zarex]

lol true
but that was well into the fight!
you'd think there would've at least been some people scrambling out of the terminal when Bucky Falcon and Spidey started fighting
but nope, they musta been closed that day

My German's a tad shaky, but I believe the intercom announcement during the Team Cap meet and greet was to evacuate the airport.

 

[Kev4000]

My German's a tad shaky, but I believe the intercom announcement during the Team Cap meet and greet was to evacuate the airport.

Im German and that is right.

 

[InCali]

Im German and that is right.

Well my German is non-existent so I'll take your word for it. LOL. They should have had hoards of people screaming and running away.

 

[B]

Winter Soldier & it isn't even remotely close.

Didn't care for CW at all & if anything I think less of the film now than I did when I saw it in the cinema after having seen it once or twice since when I recall leaving the cinema disappointed & underwhelmed.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

They were both huge successes in different ways.

Winter soldier made Cap a serious, enthralling character. Had a couple phenomenal twists and felt brought the genre to rare heights.

Civil war was the same, but with spectacle and star studded beyond belief. Seemless addition of two major characters (black panther and spider-man) without for a second feeling bogged down. This is the MCU's Empire Strikes Back in my opinion. Its where I became excited about the future again (for the first time since avengers)

So Civil War wins this 10/10 to 9.5/10

 

[Batmannerism]

They were both huge successes in different ways.

Winter soldier made Cap a serious, enthralling character. Had a couple phenomenal twists and felt brought the genre to rare heights.

Civil war was the same, but with spectacle and star studded beyond belief. Seemless addition of two major characters (black panther and spider-man) without for a second feeling bogged down. This is the MCU's Empire Strikes Back in my opinion. Its where I became excited about the future again (for the first time since avengers)

So Civil War wins this 10/10 to 9.5/10

Sir, I applaud this post. Often I end up writing long rambling rants and make my point in a really round about way. Here you have absolutely nailed the essential qualities of both films in a couple of short paragraphs. Well done, that's not an easy feat !

 

[Wrigley]

Love them both!

 

[Neil McCauley]

Having just rewatched Civil War, it's a fantastic film with great action scenes, themes and finally a good soundtrack.

TWS is slightly better due to being a bit better paced and having a bit more interesting story.

But I love both, they're my 2nd and 4th favorite CBMs in my top 10.

 

[KaijuDude1992]

This has never been hard for me, because TWS has always been the superior film IMO. Civil War is more emotional, but TWS always felt grander in scope to me and the Hydra stuff is just excellent and far more interesting story wise to follow. The action sequences in both are pretty phenomenal as well, but I do love the grittiness and brutality of Cap in TWS which made him a certified badass afterwards and one of my favorite characters in the MCU.