The Wrestling Thread's got...needs - Part 216

[Hunter Rider]

She's obviously falling under someone else's bad influence, but who? Who?!

You're thinking Tamina, right?

 

[Dr. Evil]

Eventually for Renee the allure of ESPN may be too much for her to say no.

 

[TheCommissioner]

Eventually for Renee the allure of ESPN may be too much for her to say no.

if ESPN wants her, they'll get her

 

[Dr. Evil]

if ESPN wants her, they'll get her

This and she'll be the hottest ESPN anchor lady there and my new favorite, surpassing Cari Champion.

Of course, it could mean that her and Coach could host the weekly WWE segment on Sportscenter.

 

[Wheels]

Watching Matt Hardy wrestle now is like the show is in slo-mo.

 

[Dr. Evil]

I don't care about Matt Hardy.

Renee Young on the other hand.....

if she does go to ESPN it gives her a wide range of sports for her to cover.

 

[famicommander]

I checked out after that for a bit...how do you let your best homegrown talent and easily one of the best performers on the planet just walk away?

Don't forget Samoa Joe, Alex Shelley, Chris Sabin, Jay Lethal, Frankie Kazarian, Christopher Daniels, Sting, Bubba and Devon, ODB, Rhino, Jeff Jarrett ... people that defined TNA wrestling, even if some didn't start there... they let all of them go to back to ROH/NXT/WWE/NJPW. And they briefly let James Storm get away.

Now we just hope they throw us a bone and keep Chris Melendez and Crazzy Steve off our screens.

 

[Dr. Evil]

TNA's downfall began when they brought in Hulk Hogan. Nobody cared that they brought in Hogan. The WWE countered with the return of Bret Hart.

 

[TheCommissioner]

AJ was the first though, out of all those names, was easily the "franchise" in that company

 

[famicommander]

Not just Hogan, but everything he brought with him. Bischoff, the Nasty Boys, the NWO, his stupid daughter... moving from Thursdays, going head to head against Raw, trying to tape live, and leaving the Impact Zone with barely any house show bases built up were all terrible moves that spoke to impatience. They did what they thought a "big" wrestling promotion should do and tried to grow artificially.

Plus they just couldn't stop hiring Vince Russo.

They thought their originals weren't draws, and let them leave one by one. Then they realized their originals were the only thing that drew, and it was too late.

ROH and TNA are really case studies in how to start a wrestling promotion. TNA got way bigger way faster, but they blew their load because they didn't grow organically. Ring of Honor does everything gradually and for the long haul. They're set up to make money on live events, merch, and DVD/iPPV sales and they let the rest come as it will. TNA comps tons of seats so their shows look good on TV but consequently nobody wants to pay for them anymore, while ROH is content to grow their average attendance by 100-250 fans per show per year but selling out most of their shows in the process. TNA is always in scramble mode to get TV deals while ROH just plugs along, picking up about 20 new TV markets this year and putting the shows online with ads and a subscription to boot. ROH mostly airs on channels that its parent company owns, so it's not going to be constantly searching for a home like TNA.

They started at roughly the same time, with a lot of the same guys wrestling for both companies. Fast forward, and 2015 was TNA's worst year ever and ROH's best year ever as far as growth.

 

[famicommander]

AJ was the first though, out of all those names, was easily the "franchise" in that company

No question. AJ has proven to be a draw everywhere he goes. ROH, UK promotions, smaller indies, NJPW. He's the biggest star in the world that has never been heavily associated with WWE (until now; I know he did some dark matches and some C-show matches in the early 2000s for WCW and WWF but he's the guy most associated with TNA).

He won every men's title TNA ever had at least twice. He won 2 Grand Slams and 5 Triple Crowns, with some extra titles to boot. And they wanted him to take less to stay in TNA than he would get in ROH+NJPW. Idiots.

 

[Dr. Evil]

It's 2016 and that means only one thing:

And it's in Brazil this year, a country where their greatest pro wrestling import has been Giant Silva. I am a bit surprised that neither the WWE or TNA have even attempted to get a foothold to the Brazilian market, in a country that big. Both countries have tried India. They are said to be scouting in China. But not Brazil?

 

[Slushy]

Has there ever been a real legitimate big heel vs heel match?

Roberts Vs. Savage - SNME 1986

Race Vs. Haku - Royal Rumble 1989

Martel Vs. Michaels - SummerSlam 1992

Mabel Vs. Yokozuna - In Your House 4

Flair Vs. Anderson - Fall Brawl 1995

Hart Vs. Smith - RAW February 1997 (European Championship)

Hart Vs. Michaels - Survivor Series 1997 (Hart was a heel to US fans)

Undertaker Vs. Kane - Judgment Day 1998

Jericho Vs. Raven - Halloween Havoc 1998

The Big Boss Man Vs. The Undertaker - Wrestlemania XV

Shamrock Vs. Undertaker - Backlash 1999

Angle Vs. Helmsley - Royal Rumble 2001

Lesnar Vs. Test - King Of The Ring 2002

Angle Vs. Vacant - Unforgiven 2002

Cage Vs. Jericho - RAW December 2003

Edge Vs. Helmsley - RAW February 2005 (Japan)

Angle Vs. Layfield - Smackdown December 2005

Finlay Vs. Regal - The Great American Bash 2006

Edge vs Orton - RAW April 2007

Sheamus Vs. Orton - Royal Rumble 2010

Smackdown MITB 2013

Cesaro Vs. Orton - Smackdown February 2014

Sheild Vs. Wyatts - Elimination Chamber 2014

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Is AJ the best wrestler in the world? I would say so. I used to put Bryan ahead of him, but Styles' work in New Japan is bewilderingly good.

 

[famicommander]

I have AJ Styles, Kazuchika Okada, Shinsuke Nakamura, Eddie Edwards, Roddy Strong, Jay Lethal, Prince Puma/Ricochet, Bryan Danielson, Kurt Angle, and Bobby Roode as the ten best wrestlers in the world (when healthy) and you can put them in any order you want. AJ is my personal favorite, though.

And I will argue until my dying breath that Rhino is crazy underrated. I could watch his ECW run on loop playback all day. TNA and WWE never know what to do with him, even though he did have a World Title run in TNA.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Interesting comment from Jeff Jarrett about his current relationship with WWE:

"Yes. We just never could match things up. No hard feelings on my part or their part, we just never could match. I think it was June when they were producing it, and I had the Grand Slam shows. The schedules never worked out. I am glad they are putting the DVD out for Owen Hart fans. There's a whole generation that wasn't blessed to know Owen Hart."

http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2015/1222/606006/jeff-jarrett-talks-wwe-relationship/

 

[cabel]

I have AJ Styles, Kazuchika Okada, Shinsuke Nakamura, Eddie Edwards, Roddy Strong, Jay Lethal, Prince Puma/Ricochet, Bryan Danielson, Kurt Angle, and Bobby Roode as the ten best wrestlers in the world (when healthy) and you can put them in any order you want. AJ is my personal favorite, though.

And I will argue until my dying breath that Rhino is crazy underrated. I could watch his ECW run on loop playback all day. TNA and WWE never know what to do with him, even though he did have a World Title run in TNA.

I would personally replace Edwards with Tanahashi and maybe Strong fighting Kyle O' Reily, Akira Tozawa, Masato Yoshino, Zack Sabre jr, and Minoru Suzuki for the number ten spot. At least in terms of people I look forward to watching the most these days.


Rhino doesn't get enough love. If there's anything negative to say about his ECW run, it's that it was a victim of bad timing with the promotion literally falling apart around him with people either leaving or getting injured. There was about a month long period where TNA could've made him a legit top guy, but nope.

 

[TheCommissioner]

Interesting comment from Jeff Jarrett about his current relationship with WWE:



http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2015/1222/606006/jeff-jarrett-talks-wwe-relationship/

I thought he was such a goof until he cut the hair and went with the "Don't Piss Me Off" gimmick, the tag team with him and Owen was solid

fun fact - Debra is now attending Alabama, getting her law degree

 

[Wylie Times]

Is AJ the best wrestler in the world? I would say so. I used to put Bryan ahead of him, but Styles' work in New Japan is bewilderingly good.

Styles might got down as the best of his generation. I think people forgot just how good he was because he often got stuck doing really dumb things in TNA in between the great matches he had there. He's improved over the years in terms of his psychology and from working with some great veterans, but Styles has consistently been on of the top five wrestlers in the world for over a decade IMO.

 

[Wylie Times]

AJ was the first though, out of all those names, was easily the "franchise" in that company

But they never really treated him as such.

EVERY SINGLE TIME AJ would start to get hot with a run they'd bring in some former WCW/WWF/ECW star and push AJ to the background. AJ was the corner stone of that promotion but the people in charge made it clear they valued Angle, Sting, Hogan, and Hardy more than they did AJ.

What we're been seeing the past few years from AJ is what he's always been capable of with TNA jerking him around with their insane booking.

 

[famicommander]

Sting, the Dudleys, and Angle were necessary for TNA. Hardy and Hogan were clearly not.

Sting and Angle were what enticed Spike TV to give them their TV deal. And those guys put over countless younger stars during their TNA runs.

It was guys like RVD and the old NWO that came in and pushed other guys to the side.

But still, AJ did end up a 5X World Champ, 6X Tag Team Champ, 6X X-Division Champ, and 2X Television Champ in TNA. Nobody else came even close to that. They knew he was special, they were just too dumb to turn that into longterm exposure for the company.

 

[famicommander]

I would personally replace Edwards with Tanahashi and maybe Strong fighting Kyle O' Reily, Akira Tozawa, Masato Yoshino, Zack Sabre jr, and Minoru Suzuki for the number ten spot. At least in terms of people I look forward to watching the most these days.


Rhino doesn't get enough love. If there's anything negative to say about his ECW run, it's that it was a victim of bad timing with the promotion literally falling apart around him with people either leaving or getting injured. There was about a month long period where TNA could've made him a legit top guy, but nope.

Most people don't remembe that Rhino carried BOTH of ECW's singles titles -- the World Heavyweight Championship and the Television Championship -- to the end of the company. In his early WWF run he won the WCW US Title and 3 Hardcore Titles, but once they broke him away from Heyman as a manager it was over for him.

In TNA he won one World Ttile, but they mostly fell into the trap of using him like an enforcer and in a Kane-type "jobber to the stars" role.

What really annoyed me was when TNA did their ECW reunion stable, they kept referring to Stevie, Rhino, the Dudleys, and Raven only as ECW guys when all five had been in TNA for years. They literally just buried the first ~8 years or so of their company's history for cheap nostalgia pops. By that point in time Raven was physically done, but the Dudleys, Stevie, and Rhino still had (and have) a lot left in the tank. But then they brought in Sabu, Sandman, Tracy Smothers, a Rob Van Dam who clearly didn't care and other guys that were clearly just over the hill and made the whole angle look like a bunch of washed up old guys.

 

[Slushy]

Brock Lesnar Vs. Sheamus

Hurry before it gets taken down. They clicked well in the ring. It was worth the wait.

 

[TheCommissioner]

coming up on UUDD - Oklahomie vs The Champ

there are hype videos for each contestant, I expect the finals to be posted soon

 

[Dr. Evil]