Comics Todd McFarlane's artwork was AWFUL

[Themanofbat]

People are pretty mixed on the guy when it comes to his artwork. Though whether you want to believe it or not the guy really did revoluationize the way people drew in the very late 80's and early 90's, especially the way Spider-Man was drawn. Without guys like Todd we probably wouldn't have a guy like Mark Bagley.

Without the Marvel Try-Out book, we wouldn't have Mark Bagley...

 

[Silverstein]

Art is about expression. Todd expressed a gritty and dark NYC for spider-man during a dark time with a desire for gritty tales. He pulled off the visual style well. All of the villains looked "bad ass". Hobgoblin is almost cute in some people's drawings of him, but he was almost scary in Todd's. The Lizard drawn by Todd was full of emotion, action, movement and rage. He just looks like a dinosaur-man-TMNT rip off in some people's work.

So he done good.

Art is also about bringing to the reader a world in between fantasy and reality. Like what would the 1950's superman look like if he were real and not a fat guy in a muscle suit? What would these super heroes look like if their costumes were drawn like actual fabrics and not just the flat designs of typical comics. Alex Ross brings super heroes that much closer to the real world. Their skin has texture, their eyes are watery, their clothes look like they can be torn. They look real. But still look strong.

You also forget that Superman and Batman are like 30-something. So while they may have great bodies, they're getting old. So his drawings are appropriate. Alex Ross serves his purpose as well. He just has an ******* attitude about things. He said spider-man sucks or something like that. So while he's not neccesarily a nice guy, he is still a GREAT artist.


And while art is about expression and creation, art is visual. And so it's subject to how our minds work and our own personal and mental acceptance...*sigh* I'm trying to talk to my friend and type this so I'm just going to say it....

Art is art. Ya like it or ya don't. It's good or it's bad. But to the reader. Because artistic beauty is in the eye of the beholder. They served their purposes as artist THAT is why they are talked about so much. If you don't like the style, that doesn't mean they're a bad artist. I'm sure they can draw a hell of a lot better than anyone bad mouthing it. But that's just it...It's all opinion so whatever.

 

[Kraven]

I really liked his style myself. His heroes and villains were amazing.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Actually, David based the idea of Venom on the alien costume, which first appeared in Secret Wars, and was a concept of Jim Shooter's to begin with, so that hardly qualifies David as Venom's "sole creator"...i tend to forget that as well..he also borrowed from PAD 's Sin Eater storyline...


David asked Todd for a "big guy in a black suit"...

Todd came back with the muscular, grinning, psycho we all know and love today...

Isn't visualization a big part of creativity?

yes it is, davids idea, and macfarlanes drawing of venom were two type of things that help create the venom we all know and love.

 

[UK_Stu]

Actually, David based the idea of Venom on the alien costume, which first appeared in Secret Wars, and was a concept of Jim Shooter's to begin with, so that hardly qualifies David as Venom's "sole creator"...i tend to forget that as well..he also borrowed from PAD 's Sin Eater storyline...


David asked Todd for a "big guy in a black suit"...

Todd came back with the muscular, grinning, psycho we all know and love today...

Isn't visualization a big part of creativity?

Actually its a funny thing, but the original black costume was a piece of fanfic. In the introduction of the 'Secret Wars' TPB, written by Jim Shooter, Jim says that the black costume idea was sent to him by a fan. He doesn't explain whether he means the design or the way it worked (to thoughts).

 

[Hobgoblin]

It's funny that you say that because I thought of Larsen as a McFarlane wanna-be when he became the new ASM artist after Todd.

And Larsen's artwork on ASM is some of the WORST art this book has ever seen, imo.

AMEN.

I always both both were prone to drawing ugly, ugly people. I have to admit that Todd drew some cool looking villains and I liked his backgrounds (the "spaghetti webbing" was a nice addition too) but his Spidey and MJ were hard to look at.

 

[Themanofbat]

Actually its a funny thing, but the original black costume was a piece of fanfic. In the introduction of the 'Secret Wars' TPB, written by Jim Shooter, Jim says that the black costume idea was sent to him by a fan. He doesn't explain whether he means the design or the way it worked (to thoughts).

I remember seeing some early artwork for Spidey's symbiote costume, and I remember an early issue of Marvel Age that had a pic drawn by Rick Leonardi and it was basically the same as the costuime that came out but with red colours instead of the white that we all know.

 

[drmick]

McFarland was over-rated

BUT..........

a) He pioneered the big eyes look (which was cool (at the time?- Ditko Spidey now has more charm))

b) He pioneered the new Spaghetti webbing

c) He did cooler poses

d) He did some great villians

e) He started up Image and must take credit for any extra stuff writers and artists are entitled to nowadays (Still not paid as much as I though though)

f) His toys are cool

g) Spawn has the right amount of coolness in his costume

h) He buys over-priced baseballs (hold on..... that's not good)

 

[Themanofbat]

yes it is, davids idea, and macfarlanes drawing of venom were two type of things that help create the venom we all know and love.

Todd was told "how" to draw him... the costume was already designed by somebody else, and Michelinie came up with the idea of the character long before Todd was assigned to draw ASM.

So Todd McFarlane gets NO creator rights to the character of Venom.

He was just the first person to draw him. He didn't help create him.

That falls on Michelinie's shoulders alone... in MY opinion.

 

[Feature]

Todd was told "how" to draw him... the costume was already designed by somebody else, and Michelinie came up with the idea of the character long before Todd was assigned to draw ASM.

So Todd McFarlane gets NO creator rights to the character of Venom.

He was just the first person to draw him. He didn't help create him.

That falls on Michelinie's shoulders alone... in MY opinion.

True. I don't like that McFarlane gets credit for Venom. First of all, Spider-Woman already had the black suit, so that whole design already existed. And secondly, Spidey had already been drawn in the black suit, so even if we say that it wasn't Michelinie who came up with the visuals for Venom (even though it most likely was), how much credit should Todd really get for adding a mouth to Spidey's black costume? Essentially, that's all his Venom was at first. A muscular Spidey with a mouth. No crazy eyes, no tongue... That came later.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Todd was told "how" to draw him... the costume was already designed by somebody else, and Michelinie came up with the idea of the character long before Todd was assigned to draw ASM.

So Todd McFarlane gets NO creator rights to the character of Venom.

He was just the first person to draw him. He didn't help create him.

That falls on Michelinie's shoulders alone... in MY opinion.

Oh come on, Venom is primarily popular because of the way he looks, and that was pure McFarlane.

 

[Themanofbat]

Oh come on, Venom is primarily popular because of the way he looks, and that was pure McFarlane.

BUT McFarlane WAS TOLD HOW TO DRAW HIM!!!!

Why do you people have such a hard time with that concept.

Todd McFarlane DID NOT create Venom.

'Nuff Said!

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

BUT McFarlane WAS TOLD HOW TO DRAW HIM!!!!

Why do you people have such a hard time with that concept.

Todd McFarlane DID NOT create Venom.

'Nuff Said!

Correct. He CO-created him. From Comic Creators On Spider-Man by Tom DeFalco, Todd says; "i was able to hunch him over a little bit and change some of the muscle structure. I also changed the way his face looked. I just wanted to make him a little kooky and creepy, and not just "SOME GUY IN A BLACK SUIT" ..."

You don't think that face and physique are an integral part of the character?

Stan Lee told Steve Ditko to make Spider-Man slim and wiry, rather than traditionally chisled as most other superheroes were at the time, and Steve did so....yet Steve is still considered Spider-Man's co-creator...

By your way of thinking, Ditko is even less Spidey's co-creator than McFarlane is Venom's...

 

[Kevin]

Correct. He CO-created him. From Comic Creators On Spider-Man by Tom DeFalco, Todd says; "i was able to hunch him over a little bit and change some of the muscle structure. I also changed the way his face looked. I just wanted to make him a little kooky and creepy, and not just "SOME GUY IN A BLACK SUIT" ..."

You don't think that face and physique are an integral part of the character?

Stan Lee told Steve Ditko to make Spider-Man slim and wiry, rather than traditionally chisled as most other superheroes were at the time, and Steve did so....yet Steve is still considered Spider-Man's co-creator...

By your way of thinking, Ditko is even less Spidey's co-creator than McFarlane is Venom's...

not saying that you're wrong or right, but that's what i'm talking about.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

hey guys, check this out, amazing artwork http://www.geocities.com/bulmasan/venom/venom1.jpg

 

[Elisha Cuthbert]

Art is about expression. Todd expressed a gritty and dark NYC for spider-man during a dark time with a desire for gritty tales. He pulled off the visual style well. All of the villains looked "bad ass". Hobgoblin is almost cute in some people's drawings of him, but he was almost scary in Todd's. The Lizard drawn by Todd was full of emotion, action, movement and rage. He just looks like a dinosaur-man-TMNT rip off in some people's work.

So he done good.

Art is also about bringing to the reader a world in between fantasy and reality. Like what would the 1950's superman look like if he were real and not a fat guy in a muscle suit? What would these super heroes look like if their costumes were drawn like actual fabrics and not just the flat designs of typical comics. Alex Ross brings super heroes that much closer to the real world. Their skin has texture, their eyes are watery, their clothes look like they can be torn. They look real. But still look strong.

You also forget that Superman and Batman are like 30-something. So while they may have great bodies, they're getting old. So his drawings are appropriate. Alex Ross serves his purpose as well. He just has an ******* attitude about things. He said spider-man sucks or something like that. So while he's not neccesarily a nice guy, he is still a GREAT artist.


And while art is about expression and creation, art is visual. And so it's subject to how our minds work and our own personal and mental acceptance...*sigh* I'm trying to talk to my friend and type this so I'm just going to say it....

Art is art. Ya like it or ya don't. It's good or it's bad. But to the reader. Because artistic beauty is in the eye of the beholder. They served their purposes as artist THAT is why they are talked about so much. If you don't like the style, that doesn't mean they're a bad artist. I'm sure they can draw a hell of a lot better than anyone bad mouthing it. But that's just it...It's all opinion so whatever.

Best post in this thread.

 

[Themanofbat]

Correct. He CO-created him. From Comic Creators On Spider-Man by Tom DeFalco, Todd says; "i was able to hunch him over a little bit and change some of the muscle structure. I also changed the way his face looked. I just wanted to make him a little kooky and creepy, and not just "SOME GUY IN A BLACK SUIT" ..."

You don't think that face and physique are an integral part of the character?

The concept of Venom as a character... looks and all, were all brought on by David Michelinie, along with some help with Jim Salicrup to tweak the character just right...

If anything, I've give co-creator rights to Jim Salicrup.

And as far as the Ditko thing... different situation. Steve did more than just draw Spider-Man and you know it.

 

[Dragon]

Stan Lee told Steve Ditko to make Spider-Man slim and wiry, rather than traditionally chisled as most other superheroes were at the time, and Steve did so....yet Steve is still considered Spider-Man's co-creator...

By your way of thinking, Ditko is even less Spidey's co-creator than McFarlane is Venom's...

Okay... So designing a character who's look, costume and weaponry are classic from scratch is equal to putting a smile and girth on an existing costume. Interesting.

 

[Arach Knight]

Todd McFarlane is a big part of my childhood background, with comic books. I didn't know a kid at my school, that read comics, and didn't have a silver collectors issue of Spider-Man #1. I believe that was the best selling comic book of the 90's. Todd may not be one for facial diversity and the best looking anatomy, but he is very apt, when it comes to physical poses. And his writing skills are good enough, to convey the story...or how would Spawn have done so well when it debuted?

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

The concept of Venom as a character... looks and all, were all brought on by David Michelinie, along with some help with Jim Salicrup to tweak the character just right...

If anything, I've give co-creator rights to Jim Salicrup.

And as far as the Ditko thing... different situation. Steve did more than just draw Spider-Man and you know it.

Sure, eventually. But not prior to Amazing Fantasy #15.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

Okay... So designing a character who's look, costume and weaponry are classic from scratch is equal to putting a smile and girth on an existing costume. Interesting.

Example; if you and i were writing a song, and you only contributed one line of lyrics, you're still legally entitled to royalties.

 

[wolvie2020]

Sure... but I always thought that Venom's description was plotted out between Saliscrup and Michelinie, and Todd was simply told "how" to draw him.

Not really a creator credit....

Actually, Todd does have a fair amount of creator edit in terms of Venom.

He never has gone around saying that he created him, (Todd may be a tool, but he's not a thief, that's for sure.) I've seen in an interview with him, that the idea had began before he was on board, but the actual attitude/look/developing personality and future of Venom himself, Todd was involved in. Micheline and McFarlane were a good team, and I'd say that Venom is 65% Micheline, and 35% McFarlane, give or take 5%

 

[Dragon]

Example; if you and i were writing a song, and you only contributed one line of lyrics, you're still legally entitled to royalties.

There's no comparison between what Steve Ditko did to what McFarlane did. McFarlane simply made an existing design of a hero look like a villain. Any competent artist could do what Todd did. Steve created Spider-Man from a blank canvas. And, more to Steve's credit, he could have simply done what Todd did and made Jack Kirby's design skinnier.

Honestly, I can't think of one original design by McFarlane that ranks as classic.

 

[HoratioRome]

I've heard for years now about how wonderful Todd's artwork was and how revolutionary he was to the business and yesterday, I came across Todd McFarlane: Legends Vol 3 which is a TPB of his final issues on ASM. It was a cheap price so I got it. I read the whole thing and I gotta know, what on earth was so great about this guy. I thought his artwork stank. Yeah, his Spider Man was cool with the webbing and poses but that's it and that was by no means revolutionary. All of his human faces were so terrible. Peter and the rest of the cast all look really REALLY ugly with the freaky eyes, nose and mouths. Way too cartoony and bizarre. And after awhile, looking at his art became nauseating, it's got that effect. What do you guys think?

I haven't read all the responses but I'll say I always hated Mcfarlane's art. It used to tick me off when people praised him as a great artist.

 

[Arach Knight]

Honestly, I can't think of one original design by McFarlane that ranks as classic.

His take on the Lizard during Torment, was pretty good. And lets not forget his most credible creation, Spawn. The original Spawn suit should be regarded as some what revolutionary, for deviating from both the typical hero or villain look. It was sort of all unto itself, as this very modern idea of a super beings costume. It lacked the idiosyncraces of the typical hero look (beyond his cape) yet it wasn't fully endowed with villainy qualities...only some.