The Dark Knight Viral Collectibles: How to tell a fake from the genuine article

[Why So Serious?]

This discussion began in the swag trade thread. But with as serious as the situation seems to be regarding fake Joker Dollars being bought, sold, and traded, in particular, I believe it merits it's own thread.

I just received my 2nd Joker Dollar in the mail today. And upon close inspection of both now in my possession, one is quite obviously a fake. Both were supposedly real. But here they are side by side:

This is the close up of first dollar:

And this is a close up of the second dollar:

Here are pictures of authentic dollars that Robbie was kind enough to search around for:

As you can see, the stickers on all of those dollars have a very crisp image and consistent coloring. Where as the sticker on the second bill I posted is quite discolored and blurry. Suggesting that's it's actually a poorly scanned copy of an original.

What's also worth noting is that the date on the fake bill is 2006. All the authentic dollars seem to be 2003 or earlier.

Now, a few members have told me that they bought dollars identical to the second one (the fake) that I posted from an ebay seller by the name of seahawks4u.

I did some digging, and learned that this seller in particular has sold a total of 83 Joker Dollars since the beginning of July alone. The total sum of all the sales as of the time of this post is $710.77. He currently has an auction running with 8 more available at $11.25 a piece. His listings are always private. Which, as any seasoned ebayer knows, is the trademark of a counterfeiter.

What's more is that these Dollars were exclusive to SDCC 2007. However, this seller lists directly in one of the item descriptions that he didn't even get them from the SDCC:

MY COLLEGE ROOMMATE WORKS FOR WARNER BROS. AND HE WAS KIND ENOUGH TO PROVIDE ME WITH THESE PROMOTIONAL LOTS BUT THEY ONLY MADE SO MANY AND NOW ARE GONE.

He has also posted:

THESE WERE ONLY AVAILABLE EXCLUSIVELY AT THE 2007 SAN DIEGO COMIC CONVENTION TO PROMOTE THE MOVIE AND HEATH LEDGER'S LAST STARRING ROLE AS "THE JOKER".

THIS LOT IS OUT OF MY OWN PERSONAL COLLECTION WHICH I MAY CONTINUE TO LIST A FEW OUT OF DEPENDING UPON DEMAND. I HAVE ASKED WARNER BROS. FOR ADDITIONAL ITEMS BUT CANNOT GUARANTEE IF THAT WILL BE SUCCESSFUL GIVEN THE FACT THE COMIC CON WAS LAST YEAR. THANKS!

Now, call me crazy. But I was under the impression that these we're extremely rare exclusives to SDCC 2007. How then, would one obtain additional items from Warner Brothers? More than likely, this seller probably went to a bank and grabbed a couple $50 stacks of singles and just slapped the bogus stickers on left and right. And why not? He's making a killing! $700+ for probably $100 worth of singles and supplies.

Most ebay sellers are decent people that won't knowingly sell you a fake. Most members of this community are the same. A few in particular, even make absolutely stunning reproductions that they sell or trade. But the key difference here that they will tell you that what you're getting is a reproduction. This post is not directed at those people. It's aimed at the people out there looking to take advantage of others and make a quick buck in the process.

So know who you're dealing with. Ask for pictures of the exact item you're buying or trading for. And if you're still not sure, ask someone here for a picture of an authentic item.

Because if something seems too good to be true, it probably is. And by the time you figure that out, it's probably too late.

-WsS?

 

[Robbie]

Can someone that got Joker dollars at the SDCC (not on Ebay) post if their dollars match the second dollar listed by WsS? We are trying to determine if there is any way we could be wrong and that these are legit dollars, but we aren't getting a lot of input from you SDCC folks with the real deal.

So...is number two listed by WsS like your SDCC dollar or not?

 

[Clownster]

This discussion began in the swag trade thread. But with as serious as the situation seems to be regarding fake Joker Dollars being bought, sold, and traded, in particular, I believe it merits it's own thread.

I just received my 2nd Joker Dollar in the mail today. And upon close inspection of both now in my possession, one is quite obviously a fake. Both were supposedly real. But here they are side by side:

This is the close up of top dollar:

And this is a close up of the second dollar:

Here are pictures of authentic dollars that Robbie was kind enough to search around for:

As you can see, the stickers on all of those dollars have a very crisp image and consistent coloring. Where as the sticker on the second bill I posted is quite discolored and blurry. Suggesting that's it's actually a poorly scanned copy of an original.

What's also worth noting is that the date on the fake bill is 2006. All the authentic dollars seem to be 2003 or earlier.

Now, a few members have told me that they bought dollars identical to the second one (the fake) that I posted from an ebay seller by the name of seahawks4u.

I did some digging, and learned that this seller in particular has sold a total of 83 Joker Dollars since the beginning of July alone. The total sum of all the sales as of the time of this post is $710.77. He currently has an auction running with 8 more available at $11.25 a piece. His listings are always private. Which, as any seasoned ebayer knows, is the trademark of a counterfeiter.

What's more is that these Dollars were exclusive to SDCC 2007. However, this seller lists directly in one of the item descriptions that he didn't even get them from the SDCC:



He has also posted:



Now, call me crazy. But I was under the impression that these we're extremely rare exclusives to SDCC 2007. How then, would one obtain additional items from Warner Brothers? More than likely, this seller probably went to a bank and grabbed a couple $50 stacks of singles and just slapped the bogus stickers on left and right. And why not? He's making a killing! $700+ for probably $100 worth of singles and supplies.

Most ebay sellers are decent people that won't knowingly sell you a fake. Most members of this community are the same. A few in particular, even make absolutely stunning reproductions that they sell or trade. But the key difference here that they will tell you that what you're getting is a reproduction. This post is not directed at those people. It's aimed at the people out there looking to take advantage of others and make a quick buck in the process.

So know who you're dealing with. Ask for pictures of the exact item you're buying or trading for. And if you're still not sure, ask someone here for a picture of an authentic item.

Because if something seems too good to be true, it probably is. And by the time you figure that out, it's probably too late.

-WsS?

****....i jsut ordered one two days ago from seahawksforyou

 

[SMarieMtz]

Yea I also just bought one from this seller. The first one is my original that i traded

THis the one I bought

couldn't get a better pic of this but the joker has a more greener tent then my orginal.

My husband also noticed it had a wax paper feel... on closer inspection... d@mn! its a sticker! my orginal was glued! will post pic in a sec....

 

[SMarieMtz]

I am so ticked off right now. I thought there was something funny.... the sticker peels right off as if nothing..... i am almost certain that the orginals were glued eeeeerrrrr! not cool.

Here's what the aution said...

Spoiler

UP FOR AUCTION IS THIS SUPER HOT JOKER "WHY SO SERIOUS" DOLLAR BILL PROMOTING THE UPCOMING DARK KNIGHT: BATMAN MOVIE DUE OUT THIS SUMMER! THIS COLLECTIBLE PIECE OF BATMAN MEMORABILIA IS A MUST FOR ANY TRUE BATMAN (OR JOKER) ENTHUSIAST AND A UNIQUE ADDITION TO ANY COLLECTION. IF YOU'VE SEEN THE TRAILER'S FOR THIS MOVIE YOU KNOW WHAT AN AWESOME JOKER HEATH LEDGER HAS BROUGHT TO LIFE, MANY IN HOLLYWOOD ARE EVEN TALKING "OSCAR" ABOUT HIS ROLE.

THESE WERE ONLY AVAILABLE EXCLUSIVELY AT THE 2007 SAN DIEGO COMIC CONVENTION TO PROMOTE THE MOVIE AND HEATH LEDGER'S LAST STARRING ROLE AS "THE JOKER".

I AM DOWN TO MY LAST 2 LOTS OF THESE ITEMS. MY COLLEGE ROOMMATE WORKS FOR WARNER BROS. AND HE WAS KIND ENOUGH TO PROVIDE ME WITH THESE PROMOTIONAL LOTS BUT THEY ONLY MADE SO MANY AND NOW ARE GONE.

OVERLAYED ON THE GEORGE WASHINGTON PORTRAIT IS A "JOKED OUT" GEORGE WITH THE MONIKER BELOW --- "WHY SO SERIOUS?"

IN NM CONDITION ( RARE, RARE, RARE, MOST IN PRETTY WORN SHAPE) AND COMES SANDWICHED BETWEEN BACKING BOARDS FOR SAFE ARRIVAL. DON'T MISS YOUR CHANCE NOW, THE PRICES WILL BE GOING UP AS THE MOVIE OPENS THIS JULY AND MOST OF THESE WILL BE LONG GONE, SO IT MAKES A GREAT ADDITION TO YOUR COLLECTION AND A ONCE-IN-A-LIFETIME OPPORTUNITY TO GRAB A RARE PIECE OF MEMORABILIA! GET THESE WHILE YOU CAN.

I AM NOT ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE BUT I AM TOLD THE U.S. TREASURY DEPARTMENT OK'D THIS PROMOTIONAL EVENT FOR WARNER BROS.

SHIPPING TO U.S. IS FREE!!! YOUR BILL WILL COME SANDWICHED BETWEEN ACID-FREE BACKING BOARDS FOR SAFE ARRIVAL. I PACK WELL.

THANKS FOR LOOKING AT MY AUCTION

Seller Id:seahawks4u

 

[Mollins]

Upon closer inspecitoon, my note is fake, but I'm not really all to bothered, y'know, I like it, it looks real that's all that matters to me TBH

 

[SMarieMtz]

I agree that it still looks good but what gets under my skin is that the seller clearly implied that it was real...

 

[Mollins]

Yeah, that was pretty shi*tty, but I like it, it'll look good framed

 

[tkukoc]

yeah I bought a few of these as well from the same person. I have yet to leave feedback on the auction as I just got these the other day. I'm debating on what to do here, clearly they said that these are legit when they are not.

 

[Ekricket]

I contacted the above seller on ebay, and here is his responses. You might try to contact him for a refund if you think you have been duped. In his second response he appears to be taking some postive action regarding this issue.

Response #1

Ekrickets-
on a somewhat different note, you may want to be careful in using the term counterfiet. that is a term that doesn't apply to an item such as this, being in the legal field I can understand your layman use. These bills are actually U.S. currency and are real. they have a decal that is overlayed on top of the George Washington figure, and I am unaware of any infringement issues that Warner Bros. had with these. It is similar to the Silver Surfer quarter sticker that was given out at movie theaters. As for any buyer that does not believe the bills are genuine, they are free to return the item for a full refund, as is always my policy. I do not vest much in rumours, nor in second hand information regarding the same. If it is you that requires appeasing, I would simply suggest that you not bid on my items. That is your choice of course. This is a promotional item and is not copyrighted by the Warner Bros. studio since that is something that the Dept. of Treasury would never allow. If you would like further information, send your phone number along with your full name, I will be more than happy to assist you with your inquiry. Thank you for your interest.
DG


Response # 2

Dear Ekrickets,

PS. I HAVE ENDED MY LISTING AND I APPRECIATE YOUR PROVIDING ME WITH THE THREAD. I HAVE SENT AN EMAIL REQUESTING VERIFICATION OF THE PRINTER AND DATES OF PRINTING, AS I WAS LISTING WHAT INFORMATION I WAS GIVEN. IF THESE ARE NOT GENUINE THAN IT IS I WHO HAVE BEEN DUPED, HOWEVER, OUT OF FAIRNESS TO ALL I WILL GET CONFIRMATION OF AUTHENTICITY PRIOR TO ANY RELIST. THANKS AGAIN, OBVIOUSLY, THAT TYPE OF FODDER IS SOMETHING I AM STEADFASTLY OPPOSED TO.
dg

 

[KSD]

That seller may have been "duped" as he claims, but he's also made over $700!!

I would report him to eBay. They do not take kindly to people selling fakes.

 

[KSD]

Arg! Double post!

 

[Ekricket]

That seller may have been "duped" as he claims, but he's also made over $700!!

I would report him to eBay. They do not take kindly to people selling fakes.

I have not bought anything from him, so I will leave that decision up to someone who has. I sent him an ebaymail as a semi-interested party, only because I have some Joker dollars. I would like to hear from anyone who feels that they have been duped and contacted him about a refund to see how he handled it.

 

[Why So Serious?]

As would I. I contemplated buying from this seller for about 10 seconds. That's when I checked his selling history and saw that he had sold that many in that short a period of time. Needless to say, my bull-**** detector started to twitch.

But yeah. I would like to hear what the seller says in response to a refund request.

-WsS?

 

[Robbie]

yeah I bought a few of these as well from the same person. I have yet to leave feedback on the auction as I just got these the other day. I'm debating on what to do here, clearly they said that these are legit when they are not.

Email the seller and tell him/her you want a refund and point out that it's a fake using the info from this thread.

Let us know how it goes too...

 

[Avengers-Report]

Does the Joker card have to have a stamp on it to be real? Cus I know I was givin one that didn't have a stamp on it at the Comic Con last year

 

[Dan_McCarrin]

Does the Joker card have to have a stamp on it to be real? Cus I know I was givin one that didn't have a stamp on it at the Comic Con last year

its most likely real the cards with stamps were for the trailer hunt and had diffent stamps so some one in la that had a comic con card saw a stamp in Chicago after that hunt was over they would put that style stamp on thier card but once at the theater their stamp wouldn't match la's stamp...

 

[Ekricket]

Does the Joker card have to have a stamp on it to be real? Cus I know I was givin one that didn't have a stamp on it at the Comic Con last year

No, there were a lot of joker cards given out without stamps. The only ones that do have stamps are the ones used for the trailer screenings or possibly other entry tickets. In other words, when the cards were used for entry tickets, they were stamped, otherwise they do not have a stamp on them. The others, from the Slipknot operation, Bowling Balls, Cakes, CC's, etc.... did not have stamps.

If in doubt, go ahead and send it to me, and I will let you know if it is real or not, and try to return it..........

 

[cinematheque]

I have not bought anything from him, so I will leave that decision up to someone who has. I sent him an ebaymail as a semi-interested party, only because I have some Joker dollars. I would like to hear from anyone who feels that they have been duped and contacted him about a refund to see how he handled it.

As a matter of fact I JUST bought one of these from the seller on Wednesday night. I'd been contemplating it for a while and watching, and from what I could tell from the people who'd bought it, it was legit, although I had no idea how this person had come across so many (which was why I had been sitting on it). In fact this very stuff has come in the swag thread and I paid very close attention to it. After no complaints surfaced after a solid few weeks, I decided to do it on Wednesday night.

Then of course, last night this emerged, so I contacted the seller and asked for a refund. (It should be noted that I did it nicely.) I woke up today to the refunded money, no problems. Of course I'm sure it was easier for me because the item hadn't been shipped yet, but still, I experienced no problems with the seller in that respect.

So, there's your answer. If the seller IS knowingly selling inauthentic Joker dollars, then at least she (I'm pretty sure it's a she judging by the Paypal name, but I know of at least one guy with this name, so who knows) doesn't continue trying to dupe you out of money if you're displeased.

 

[Why So Serious?]

These are emails that the seller is sending to the person that I traded this dollar with.

this what the ebayer sent me.
1st
regarding your second email. These are not fake, the "decal" which is overlayed on the dollar is directly from Warner Bros. Not all of these are identical as is the case with large production of such items. I don't care what your friends have told you, the fact of the matter is, it is more likely than not that their dollars are fake. As for the bills, these are branc new uncirculated bills that the decal overlays were put on, irrespective of the dates, it is the overlay that is the real deal. If you would like I have retained the old, creased, dirty, and extremely used bill which I removed the decal from to put onto a new one, I will be more than happy to put them back on the old bills for you. Again, don't tell me what is real and what is fake. Unless your friends can provide you with proof of their claim, they are absolutely incorrect. Please send back each item that I shipped to you, I will refund you your money as there are other buyers who would like these items. If you are able to obtain a certificat of authenticity from those people, I would do so, and provide it too me, along with whatever proof they have claiming these original items are not from the comic con. You may also want to email Warner Bros. asking them about any variances in the manufacture of the decal. Your emails are completely out of line, so in order to resolve this and restore you to pre-purchase status, send back every item sent to you.
Sincerely,

2nd
One last note: I am looking at the bills I have left and not all of them are identical. some are darker than others and some of the colors also have very slight variances. I doubt that you did any "trading" at all, but rather you "sold" these items at a higher cost. I would be interested in seeing the letters or information you received from these buyers in the U.S. together with their names and addresses. if you have phone numbers send that info. as well. I will contact each directly to inquire as to where they are getting their information and upon what basis such a ridiculous claim is based.
I look forward to your response.



[FONT=arial, sans-serif]- seahawks4u [/FONT]
[FONT=arial, sans-serif]3rd[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, sans-serif]the idiot who posted a thread regarding these items should be sued for defamation. He has made conclusory statements about a product he knows nothing about. these are "intellectual property" rights of WB, not 42 Entertainment. these were produced via production codes and do not all look exactly the same. I have received these directly from a WB source whom I trust. Only those ignorant people who are stupid enough to buy into his conclusory (and wrong) assertions are the ones who are being taken in by a fake. This guy has absolutely no experience with these promotional items and has posted a thread based upon 2 photos of production variances and then states one has to be a fake. he is wrong, plain and simple. I guarantee the product and stand behind it 100%. You need not worry about that. tell me how many you sold and what you received. thanks [/FONT]
[FONT=arial, sans-serif][/FONT]

[FONT=arial, sans-serif][FONT=arial, sans-serif]- seahawks4u[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial, sans-serif]

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]there are more but only go on about taking me2 court.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]hope this helps[/FONT]
[/FONT]

This right here, is my official invitation to the ebay seller, to join these forums and set the record straight.

By all accounts, this seller's bills are the ONLY ones with stickers that do not match the confirmed originals handed out at the SDCC. Every single person that has a bill like the second one I posted obtained them either directly, or indirectly, from this ebay seller.

So here's your chance, pal. Join up and set the record straight. Better yet, elaborate as to where these were "obtained" from. I can't speak for the rest of the people here. But I'm dying to know exactly where and who these came from.

-WsS?

 

[BirdsDoThus]

And what does NOT make sense is him implying that he has some sort of steady income of Joker Bills coming in. Is some guy just sitting at WB with nothing to do, making these for fun?

My understanding is that they were made for the SDCC event exclusively. It would be nice of him to come and explain to those of us who don't understand how to tell real swag from fake. You know, those of us who have participated for a year in this campaign.

 

[Injust07]

I wish I could help out and post a pic of my dollar, but I moved out and left it at home with my other stuff. I havent gotten to the point where my viral stuff comes here.

 

[Ekricket]

These are emails that the seller is sending to the person that I traded this dollar with.



This right here, is my official invitation to the ebay seller, to join these forums and set the record straight.

By all accounts, this seller's bills are the ONLY ones with stickers that do not match the confirmed originals handed out at the SDCC. Every single person that has a bill like the second one I posted obtained them either directly, or indirectly, from this ebay seller.

So here's your chance, pal. Join up and set the record straight. Better yet, elaborate as to where these were "obtained" from. I can't speak for the rest of the people here. But I'm dying to know exactly where and who these came from.

-WsS?

I sent him a link to this thread in one of my inquiries, to make him more aware of the issue. His reply to you implies that he has read this thread also. So if he chooses to join and explain I would respect that. On the other hand, the only people he really owes any sort of explanation to are the ones he sold to. I don't demand that he come here and explain, and I don't think anyone can reasonable expect him to HAVE to come here, it would just be nice.

 

[Why So Serious?]

I sent him a link to this thread in one of my inquiries, to make him more aware of the issue. His reply to you implies that he has read this thread also. So if he chooses to join and explain I would respect that. On the other hand, the only people he really owes any sort of explanation to are the ones he sold to. I don't demand that he come here and explain, and I don't think anyone can reasonable expect him to HAVE to come here, it would just be nice.

I never said he had to come here. But under the circumstances, I think an explanation and even a chance to set the record straight is more than appropriate.

But I honestly do not expect him to. I think he's blowing smoke up his customer's asses, and telling them that I have no idea what I'm talking about in an attempt to clear himself of any wrong doing.

And unless he has the stones to show up here and prove that he obtained these from WB, that's what I'll continue to believe.

-WsS?

 

[Dan_McCarrin]

hey wss I'm happy that you put the "why so serious?" on the real dollar now that will help with the fakes I was hoping you would do that sooner or later