Transformers Was Michael Bay a Good Choice?

[DarthSkywalker]

We're not even arguing about Bay's movie as much as were arguing if Transformers has more to offer than explosions and flashy effects.

You can't even concede that Transformers has more to offer than explosions.

If more of Bay's cheerleaders could admit this maybe we could get beyond this argument and discuss the artistic merits of the film itself rather than spend so much time debating the merits of the source material.

There robots that are fighting over a cube of souls. IT IS ALL ABOUT THE BOOM!!!

What else comes from the situation has to do with your attachment to the property that is completely personal to each and everyone. The reason people get pumped over such things is the case.

 

[blind_fury]

Well we don't really have a film yet to even discuss. It's the same old "bay's worse than uwe boll" crap you keep saying ad nauseum.

I've seen beast wars, love it, and the depth comes from the characters. Not the thematic stuff really.

When it's thematic, it becomes really lame like beast machines.

Were not talking about a Beast Wars movie with talking rats and cheetahs. Where talking about a G1 movie with Bumblebee, Ironhide, Starscream and Jazz. Do you think G1 has more to offer than explosions???

 

[CFlash]

Were not talking about a Beast Wars movie with talking rats and cheetahs. Where talking about a G1 movie with Bumblebee, Ironhide, Starscream and Jazz. Do you think G1 has more to offer than explosions???

Nooo... please stop B_F! you're only gonna attract ShadowBoxing into this thread!

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Were not talking about a Beast Wars movie with talking rats and cheetahs. Where talking about a G1 movie with Bumblebee, Ironhide, Starscream and Jazz. Do you think G1 has more to offer than explosions???

Hate on Beast Wars? Easily one of the best thing to come out of Transformers so far.

 

[blind_fury]

There robots that are fighting over a cube of souls. IT IS ALL ABOUT THE BOOM!!!

What else comes from the situation has to do with your attachment to the property that is completely personal to each and everyone. The reason people get pumped over such things is the case.

My attachment to the source material lasted over twenty years because Transformers was more than explosions and flashy effects. The iconic characters, concepts, allegories, mythos, details, resonated. Not because the explosions were loud and the visuals were cool. I don't see why people can't admit that G1 had more to offer than explosions.

 

[CFlash]

My attachment to the source material lasted over twenty years because Transformers was more than explosions and flashy effects. The iconic characters, concepts, allegories, mythos, details, resonated. Not because the explosions were loud and the visuals were cool. I don't see why people can't admit that G1 had more to offer than explosions.

Dude, I have 5 friends coming over this weekend and we're having a TF Season 1 and 2 drinking night. I know what you mean. But you can't really explain that to folks who were too young or too old when it came out.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

My attachment to the source material lasted over twenty years because Transformers was more than explosions and flashy effects. The iconic characters, concepts, allegories, mythos, details, resonated. Not because the explosions were loud and the visuals were cool. I don't see why people can't admit that G1 had more to offer than explosions.

Transformers is so stock it ain't funny. I love them but they are. The ideas and mythos are rather basic. What sets them apart is that they are huge robots who beat the crap out of one another.

 

[blind_fury]

Hate on Beast Wars? Easily one of the best thing to come out of Transformers so far.

Call the movie Beast Wars with Beast Wars characters then.


If some of the Beast War concepts were that strong you could use them sparingly to influence in a G1 adaptation. I think the G1 comics offer plenty of great concepts and conflicts that could be used to make a better Transformers movie not to mention more relateable and iconic characters.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Dude, I have 5 friends coming over this weekend and we're having a TF Season 1 and 2 drinking night. I know what you mean. But you can't really explain that to folks who were too young or too old when it came out.

Wait isn't that my point? Personal attachment crafted by timing and place?

 

[CFlash]

Transformers is so stock it ain't funny. I love them but they are. The ideas and mythos are rather basic. What sets them apart is that they are huge robots who beat the crap out of one another.

So was Gobots. So was Shogun Warriors. Where are they now?

But we should get back on topic.

 

[The Kid]

Call the movie Beast Wars with Beast Wars characters then.


If some of the Beast War concepts were that strong you could use them sparingly to influence in a G1 adaptation. I think the G1 comics offer plenty of great concepts and conflicts that could be used to make a better Transformers movie not to mention more relateable and iconic characters.

G1 and Beast wars are forever linked.

So you really can't think of one without the other because beast wars is just a prequel to G1.

I don't know exactly what teh **** Beast machines is. cybertron became a techno-organic ****. But at least we got to finally see a transformers show take place solely on cybertron for the first time.

 

[CFlash]

Wait isn't that my point? Personal attachment crafted by timing and place?

When Transformers came out it was unlike anything else out. I don't care how many people diss it. We had freakin Smurfs, Saturday Supercade, Donkey Kong.... G.I. Joe (which sucked) and Gobots. And unlike some of the cartoons that immediately followed it (Thundercats, Voltron) etc, although some were quite good, Transformers was still different because it took place in the real world not some surreal trippy Eternia or Third Earth.

When I watch it now, I recognize it for the awesome cartoon it was. Just like when I watch Terminator I recognize its awesomeness despite some of the dated cheesy special effects.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

So was Gobots. So was Shogun Warriors. Where are they now?

But we should get back on topic.

There is few cures for just being boring and/or terrible. Transformers just does what it does, and does it right.

But your right back on topic. When people complain about the story I just don't get how they can bag on Bay. Lets face it. This is a basic script for any Spielberg film that doesn't involve his great professor.

 

[nosebleed.]

There is few cures for just being boring and/or terrible. Transformers just does what it does, and does it right.

But your right back on topic. When people complain about the story I just don't get how they can bag on Bay. Lets face it. This is a basic script for any Spielberg film that doesn't involve his great professor.

Yet when you watch a Spielberg film do you hear reviews stating, "BEST action movie I've ever seen, but there was no story, plot or character development, BUT THE ACTION WAS ROXORS!!"

 

[Conebone69]

this is a thread that ive beenthinking about posting. mods if this thread is dumb close it by all means. but for real do u think that michael bay was the best person to make this movie? i personally think so but from ive noticed that alot of people didnt like basically any of his movies. i loved them all. i think armageddon kicked a** lol

Im not really sure cuz I dont think I've ever seen a michael bay film

 

[blind_fury]

There is few cures for just being boring and/or terrible. Transformers just does what it does, and does it right.

But your right back on topic. When people complain about the story I just don't get how they can bag on Bay. Lets face it. This is a basic script for any Spielberg film that doesn't involve his great professor.

What makes Jaws a great movie? Isn't the premise "basic"?

 

[The Kid]

Yet when you watch a Spielberg film do you hear reviews stating, "BEST action movie I've ever seen, but there was no story, plot or character development, BUT THE ACTION WAS ROXORS!!"

1941, JP2, and hook might have garnered that reaction probably.

still, I like the story in hook anyway. And JP2 roxors

 

[DarthSkywalker]

What makes Jaws a great movie? Isn't the premise "basic"?

Spielberg filming the every loving hell out of it. That is what makes Spielberg films. He takes really basic ideas but his filmmaking skills are beyond compare.

Also one seemingly gives a pass to the person who did it first. There have been far more complicated films then Jaws, but he did it first.

 

[CFlash]

Yet when you watch a Spielberg film do you hear reviews stating, "BEST action movie I've ever seen, but there was no story, plot or character development, BUT THE ACTION WAS ROXORS!!"

In all fairness, I think Steven Spielberg got some flak when he first came out with Jaws. It was a "new" type of movie- uber-blockbuster. Not only that but it diverged from the book in some deep ways (the book concentrated A LOT on Brody and his marital problems, etc.... if we were fanboys of Peter Benchley we'd be crying foul! ).

What'd he do? He took a step back... took a financial risk and sacrifice... and made one of the best sci-fi movies of all time, Close Encounters. Bay has had ample time (6 movies?... 15 years?) and has never made a real movie with a real story. Pearl Harbor could have been his Saving Private Ryan. The Island could have been his Close Encounters. But the guy just sucks.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Yet when you watch a Spielberg film do you hear reviews stating, "BEST action movie I've ever seen, but there was no story, plot or character development, BUT THE ACTION WAS ROXORS!!"

Spielberg doesn't make action films with the exception of the Jones films and that War pick he made (you may of heard of it). Most of his films are tales of family and their affect on it's characters. There is little difference between ET, Jaws, the Color Purple, M. Report, War of the Worlds and JP when it comes down to it, with the exception of the setting.

Though War of the Worlds did get completely ragged on for being just that.

 

[UltimateJustin]

I think those who have seen it will say yes, he knocked it out of the park harder than any movie this summer.

 

[The Kid]

Spielberg doesn't make action films with the exception of the Jones films and that War pick he made (you may of heard of it). Most of his films are tales of family and their affect on it's characters. There is little difference between ET, Jaws, the Color Purple, M. Report, War of the Worlds and JP when it comes down to it, with the exception of the setting.

Though War of the Worlds did get completely ragged on for being just that.

You have to give john williams credit also. He's really the miracle worker on most of spielberg's films, sometimes elevating what would be considered mediocre into something heavenly.

Watch ET, just imagine it without william's brilliance and you'll see what I mean. Not to knock spielberg, because he really is a great director, but williams is deserving equal credit I think, for the man's status.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

You have to give john williams credit also. He's really the miracle worker on most of spielberg's films, sometimes elevating what would be considered mediocre into something heavenly.

Watch ET, just imagine it without william's brilliance and you'll see what I mean. Not to knock spielberg, because he really is a great director, but williams is deserving equal credit I think, for the man's status.

Williams is beyond compare I completely agree. He like Morricone gives life to he films that no one else could.

 

[shigsy2003]

Were not talking about a Beast Wars movie with talking rats and cheetahs. Where talking about a G1 movie with Bumblebee, Ironhide, Starscream and Jazz. Do you think G1 has more to offer than explosions???

I share your love for the material BF but this isn't a G1 movie either. It is a Transformers Amalgamation movie centred more towards G1 in terms of characters. G1 is a great show, I love it but the stories it told were mostly not great and meaningful. There were a few don't get me wrong but in terms of writing He-Man was far superior. Take a look at the episode Day of the Machines: written by David Wise. The episode is by all accounts terrible (although it makes some good points at machines one day taking over and our over dependece on them) yet the same writer wrote an episode for Season 1 of He-Man called The Search: which by all accounts is classic. A true test of 'can someone with the heart of He-Man be corrupt' and he nearly is. Now sure David Wise has wrote a couple of bad eps for He-Man and the majority of eps he wrote for G1 were bad but He-Man seemed to allow writes to concentrate on character as opposed to action, no doubt this was influenced by Filmations strict budgets and stock footage.

You have to give john williams credit also. He's really the miracle worker on most of spielberg's films, sometimes elevating what would be considered mediocre into something heavenly.

Watch ET, just imagine it without william's brilliance and you'll see what I mean. Not to knock spielberg, because he really is a great director, but williams is deserving equal credit I think, for the man's status.

Aye it is true Williams perfectly complements Spielberg's movies everytime. I prefer Howard Shore personally, but the combined talents of Spielberg and Williams makes for some unforgettable movies.

 

[Marvin]

As far as giving the TF any justice from the action side of things, yes, Bay is perfect, as far as story wise

hmm how interesting


considering he's the director brought on a heavily produced machine(like most of his films)

Action wise : he's just about completely responsible(beyond it's basic outline)

Story wise : (and here's the interesting part) It's written by someone else...it's filtered though the ppl paying for the film...
and he(staying on budget) pretty much add or takes out scenes pretty much on the spot trying to keep the tone of the story consistent and communicating with a clarity and atmosphere that best fits what's on paper

no oil sub themes?
darn that bay for not writing it in/shooting it somehow/or having one of the characters break from the script and say they want to milk this planet dry of it's "oils" u know....forget that the script has them chasing the cube...