Gotham Ways to improve Gotham

[The Overlord]

I have heard a lot of people say this show is mediocre, so what do you think could be done to improve it?

 

[famicommander]

-Stop with the parade of Batman supporting character origins. Even in the context of a comic book television show it's difficult to suspend disbelief over the vast majority of Batman supporting characters being intricately involved in the day-to-day lives of the main characters roughly a decade before Bruce dons the cape and cowl. Gotham has, what, 8 million people? And pretty much all the major players are future Batman villains or allies? That's an awful lot of coincidences and what-not.

-Abandon Barbara. Her character just hasn't worked.

-Find a coherent tone. Rather than being some mixture of camp and drama, Gotham feels disjointed; rapidly jerking between one and the other seemingly at random.

-Much like the tone, the narrative is rather disjointed. It feels like this was supposed to originally be just about Gordon and Bullock, but at some point in development they decided it would be safer to more directly associate this show with Batman. And, hence, the first season beats you over the head with it any time they reference something or someone from the Batman mythos. "SEE? THAT CHICK IS TOTALLY GONNA BE POISON IVY. YOU CAN TELL BECAUSE WE LITERALLY RENAMED HER IVY AND PROMINENTLY SHOWED HER INTERACTING WITH PLANTS EVEN THOUGH SHE HAD NO REAL PLOT SIGNIFICANCE! THIS IS TOTALLY A BATMAN SHOW AND NOT A POLICE DRAMA! PLEASE WATCH IT!" Essentially, the show lacks faith in its premise and consequently tries to hook viewers with promises that will never pay off in the long run.

The best parts about the show (for me) have always been the set design, costumes, and props. As critical as I am of the show, there's no denying that they brought the actual city of Gotham to life in the best way of any live action interpretation so far.

 

[R2BCool]

Exactly right about the too many characters. Focus on one bad guy we know a season and gives a bunch of new supporting characters. Unfortunately it looks like they are doing the exact opposite this season.

 

[Bathead]

Meh, I disagree. I think it's fine the way it is.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

there is nothing down with introducing characters now and then as long as they really focus just on the rise of one or two of them like last year.

we had the rise of Penguin as primary villain, Riddler as the second most important origin and lots of tertiary villains (Catwoman, Joker, Ivy, Scarecrow etc.) with varying degrees of importance to the plot. that's actually a good model, I guess if they focus on Riddler in season 2 a bit more and promote one of the tertiary villain characters to secondary origin arc this might be a good idea.

 

[The Shape]

Meh, I disagree. I think it's fine the way it is.

 

[The Shape]

Anyway, aside from the show's many obvious problems, making this season about the "Rise of the Villains" and marketing it as such is just so misguided.

 

[Bathead]

Ya heard me.

(oh yeah, and ...trunks )

 

[Dugath]

- Drop the goofy tone, or at least stop flip flopping. Season one was not so bad. But the start of Season 2.... ouch

I do not see this making it past Season 2 if they do not.

 

[<(o_o)>]

A kinder & gentler Alfred would be nice. He just comes across as borderline abusive to Bruce at times. Then again maybe the tougher & firmer Alfred is the Alfred that Bruce needs at this point in his life rather than the kiss ass, yes man version from other incarnations of Batman.

 

[smallville fan]

Time jumps or Flash forwards.

 

[amazingfantasy15]

The show should've taken direction from the Gotham Central comic put. You place it in the time of Batman, but Batman isn't really seen, the focus is on the cops. Hell that comic had an entire issue about the person who turned on the Bat Signal which was great. That or we needed an season before the Wayne's were killed, let us finally get to know these characters, let them interact with Gordon so he actually has a reason to care about his promise to Bruce to catch the killer. Right now the show is too concerned with being you over the head with foreshadowing of a future we'll never and aren't supposed to see.

 

[kguillou]

As much as I wouldve loved the Gotham Central approach, I think the clear issue with that is if you only show Batman sporadically, you run the risk of having the audience be like "when's Batman going to appear next??" instead of giving the main characters a fair chance. I'll be honest, even when reading the comic I sometimes felt like that myself. I kept waiting for Batman to appear and save the GCPD's asses. At least with this pre-Batman approach the audience wont be expecting to him.

 

[The Shape]

Time jumps or Flash forwards.

Yep.

 

[amazingfantasy15]

As much as I wouldve loved the Gotham Central approach, I think the clear issue with that is if you only show Batman sporadically, you run the risk of having the audience be like "when's Batman going to appear next??" instead of giving the main characters a fair chance. I'll be honest, even when reading the comic I sometimes felt like that myself. I kept waiting for Batman to appear and save the GCPD's asses. At least with this pre-Batman approach the audience wont be expecting to him.

Yeah, this approach is so much better, we just will get teased for the entire run of the show with what we really want, except we'll never get it. I gave this show a chance through February sweeps last year, but I just couldn't get into it. Oh look it's Oswald Copblepot, but he'll never be the Penguin, Edward Nigma, he'll never be the Riddler though, Selina Kyle, but I'll never see Catwoman, Bruce Wayne! Too bad he'll never be Batman... All set up, but we'll never get the payoff, I'll watch Supergirl on Monday's instead, at least I'll get someone that's going to put on the costume and not just tease us.

 

[Victarion]

Having this thing taking place during Batman's early run, when he is still a menace to the GPD would go a long way toward making this more about the GPD. That's the impression I got from the season one promos: the GPD and Gordon will be the focus. By bringing in Bruce's formative years, I think it sort of makes all the stuff with Gordon feel like filler. Better that Batman be just one more villain for the GPD and Gordon to deal with.

If it isn't taking too much from TDKT, I would say that Bruce's meeting with a young Gordon shouldn't be anything special. Just one new, fresh cop's random act of kindness. It need not even be shown on screen. Teased and hinted by Gordon investigating a crime scene near where the Waynes were killed.

 

[Manofplastic]

Ways to improve Gotham

quickly terminate it, destroy all the films taken, never air or re-run again, send a couple of copyright slaves ala prince-minions that take the copies from torrents, youtube, etc, take back all dvd copies sent to video stores, burn it, and pretend it never happened.

only improvement.

 

[ALittlePush]

Ways to improve Gotham

quickly terminate it, destroy all the films taken, never air or re-run again, send a couple of copyright slaves ala prince-minions that take the copies from torrents, youtube, etc, take back all dvd copies sent to video stores, burn it, and pretend it never happened.

only improvement.

I disagree.

 

[Kathemy]

The best way to "improve Gotham" would probably be to tell people to get over their preconceived notions about its suckitude which were established during the early season one episodes.

Most of the people complaining about the show nowadays seem not to understand the conscious decisions it is making. I've even seen numerous people complain that "James Frain is a bad actor" because of his deliberate overacting in certain scenes.

This show is doing fine and it's only getting better.

 

[godisawesome]

This is less a weakness and more of an upcoming challenge I hope they can answer: satisfactorily execute the introduction of armored Superhero/supervillain Azrael in such a way that it perfectly blends their more mundane world with the fantastical.

We've had simpler costumes and such before, but of they have any balls, Azrael should enter in armor and mask, with a flaming sword. And if they have skill, that should just be escalation on this show, not a derailing moment.

 

[Kathemy]

Yes. That would be a challenge. It would be easy for it to come across as too fantasy-esque and cheesy in the wrong way. Please do note that "cheesy" isn't necessarily a negative for this show, not in all cases.

 

[storm-x-fan]

Bruno Heller as the showrunner troubles me. He was brilliant with the Mentalist, even if it was a Sherlock-ish copy, but lost it mid-way. Most of the fandom (including me) were disappointed with the big villain reveal here. It makes me think that maybe Gotham would have been better in different hands.

Other than that, my basic problem, like the others here, is too many characters popping up here and there. I wish they would just focus on established characters, their story arcs, their character growths. I want to see Gordon-Bollock partnership mature, Batman-Alfred-Cat moments. Fish Mooney and Penguin are great. They can go so many ways with their inter-relationships.

Also, I agree, Barbara is a weak link for the show. I cannot stand the character. She's so annoying.

Gotham is okay for me. Not my favorite, but not bad either.

 

[amazingfantasy15]

The best way to "improve Gotham" would probably be to tell people to get over their preconceived notions about its suckitude which were established during the early season one episodes.

Most of the people complaining about the show nowadays seem not to understand the conscious decisions it is making. I've even seen numerous people complain that "James Frain is a bad actor" because of his deliberate overacting in certain scenes.

This show is doing fine and it's only getting better.

The conscious decision they made was to make a Batman show, just without Batman. It'll have all his villains, all the people he needs on the police force, but we'll just take Batman out of the equation and we'll make Bruce so young that he can't become Batman without some weird time jump.

I think a great plan for season one would have been establish the relationship between Gordon and Bullock, first with normal cases, eventually start focusing on the mob. Also, have Gordon establish a relationship with the Waynes, have them using their wealth and influence to try and help the city. Make there be a bond between the Waynes and Gordon, every Batman story starts with the Waynes murder, do something different and spend a season with Thomas and Martha before they are killed, let us get to know them, let us see Bruce before his world is destroyed. The season could end with their murder and season two could be Alfred and Gordon trying to help Bruce cope. Kevin Smith did a podcast about this concept and it sounded amazing, so much better than just teasing the Batman villains.

 

[Kathemy]

This would have been a very good concept. I agree. That said, Gotham certainly does not have "all Batman's villains." For one, we've yet to see any super-villains. I think introducing Selina as slightly older than Bruce and them getting to know each other young was a twist that actually worked well and improved the story. Adding Ivy was also a good move as was not having her given many scenes since she's even younger than Bruce. Adding the Joker, I think, was premature. I'm pretty convinced Jerome will actually end up being the Joker, somehow.

 

[ALittlePush]

I'm pretty convinced Jerome will actually end up being the Joker, somehow.

I agree. He was too much like the Joker not to be the Joker. This Indian Hill place makes me think we may not have seen the last of Jerome. It's probably just wishful thinking but if Firefly is "dead" to the GCPD yet is still alive, whose to say the same can't be true for Jerome?