What don't you like about the Marvel Cinematic Universe? (Spoilers)

[pixen]

Batmannerism a few posts above summed it up pretty good and I'm in agreement with about 90% of that post.

But I still dislike Endgame's 5 year time jump and the way the Avengers brought everyone back so recklessly more than anything else in the MCU.

How were they recklessly brought back?

 

[metaphysician]

How were they recklessly brought back?

Presumably he thinks the proper behavior of heroes would be to either just let half of all life in existence remain dead, or else they are supposed to take it on themselves to pick and choose who deserves life. *cough*

 

[Drizzle]

I guess the "non-reckless" way to do it would have been for the Avengers to travel back to the point where Thanos collected all of the stones, or even before that, and prevent the snap from happening. Prior to Endgame, that was how I thought everything was going to go down until Tony's condition that nothing in the past five years since the snap would be undone thanks to:

Even then, Smart Hulk's whole schpiel about time travel as well as the Ancient One's emphasized that even if they were to do that, it would still result in a branched timeline.

 

[Appfanincaaland]

How were they recklessly brought back?

By reckless, I meant without warning anyone or preparing for a second round of potential chaos brought on by the sudden reappearance of half the population.

But my wider dislike isn't so much with any "in-universe" considerations, as it is with filmmakers' creative decision to jump ahead 5 years. I think it has caused a whole number of narrative messes for stories moving forward. The rest of the MCU creators don't seem to know what to do with it, as evidenced by most subsequent MCU works choosing essentially to either pay quick lip service to it or ignore it completely. TF&TWS is the only one to even deal with it, and that was handled very awkwardly, imo. Personally, I think it would have been compelling for Black Widow, Shang-Chi, and/or Hawkeye to be set during the 5 year gap.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Phase 4, what I didn't like condensed:
-I didn't like the Ralph Bohner twist in Wandavision. Seeing as how in a deleted scene this character was the missing person, perhaps there is a chance they'll pull another Mandarin
-Speaking of Mandarin, I didn't fully like the handling of the ten rings in Shang Chi, or the scale they added into the final act
-I haven't seen Loki season 2 yet but but I really hated season 1. I thought it was one of the worst and most overrated outputs of the MCU, especially in the Disney plus offerings
-Black Panther 2 was okay, but nowhere near as good as the first film. Not even close. I really do believe the best thing to do was to recast T'Challa while still honoring him in the sequel.
-Spider-Man No Way Home is the highest grossing MCU film since Endgame and while it'll always have a special place in my heart for personal reasons, when you really start to think about it, the movie doesn't make sense. It's worth its own thread or its own long post

 

[TheVileOne]

The Multiverse I find to be highly awkward and problematic.

They didn't really seem to know how to follow-up Endgame and beating Thanos.

A badly handled "reset" as Kevin Feige calls it. They announced tons of plans without ever really knowing how to execute them or properly roll them out.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

The Multiverse I find to be highly awkward and problematic.

They didn't really seem to know how to follow-up Endgame and beating Thanos.

A badly handled "reset" as Kevin Feige calls it. They announced tons of plans without ever really knowing how to execute them or properly roll them out.

Yeah phases 4/5/6 were supposed to be multiverse saga but there was a lot of fumbling this time around that happened and because of that, the execution just doesn't land the way it did most of the time with the first saga.

The multiverse angle could have kept people hyped all throughout the saga, but I think it peaked with Spider-Man No Way Home and the appeal has worn off overtime

 

[psylockolussus]

Phase 4 could have only consisted for films for Shang-Chi, Captain Marvel, Fantastic 4, Dr. Strange 2, Black Panther 2, Guardians 3, Spider-Man 3 and Ant-Man 3 (released through 2021 to 2023).

Thats still 8 movies but no shows and no Avengers. It could have served as a breather for the audience, while planting seeds for Secret Wars.

Instead, they went overboard with the shows while also not doing an Avengers movie. From 2021 to 2023, we also had ten movies and considering how many of those films, its not that bad, that only 1 film truly flopped, especially considering covid restrictions in 2021.

Post 2025, these are possible movies that they could make for 2026 to 2030
-Avengers 5
-Avengers 6
-Black Panther 3
-Blade
-Blade II
-Captain America 5
-Deadpool 4
-Doctor Strange 3
-The Fantastic 4 Part II
-Shang-Chi 2
-Spider-Man 4
-Thor 5
-Thunderbolts 2
-X-Men

Though it would still depend how their 2025 movies, will perform at the boX office which I don't have high eXpectations. And from the ones, I listed, its still too many just under 5 years.

I think these ones are unlikely to happen
-Ant-Man 4
-Armor Wars
-Captain Marvel 3
-Eternals II
-Guardians of the GalaXy Vol. 4
-Scarlet Witch

 

[Cap2024]

Easy, that they got rid of Iron Man and Cap. Especially doing so prior to showing them interacting with the Fantastic Four, X-Men, Punisher, Blade, etc.

Hopefully they use the multiverse to fix this some way; you mean Tony Stark and Reed Richards can finally work together and we’ll never get a chance to see that?

 

[JoshB1980]

The biggest thing overall that has bugged me about the MCU in general, is that around the time "Infinity War" was in production, they started speeding everything up and all sorts of stuff came out very quickly. Nothing was allowed to breathe, or stand on its own two feet, and as a whole I think the stories suffered for it. I personally haven't seen any of the Disney+ shows yet, but I did buy the more recent movies - I just haven't watched them.

 

[psylockolussus]

I dislike that a lot of movies in Multiverse Saga are going to be a 1 and done eventually. In Infinity Saga, we only had The Incredible Hulk. When marathoning the MCU films, it always stood like a thumb role for not getting a direct sequel or a Incredible Hulk 2 movie. But it was more of a studio politics than Marvel Studios' disinterest for another Hulk movie.

In Multiverse Saga, so far - its going to be Black Widow and Eternals. Unless somehow a Black Widow 2 and Eternals 2 suddenly happen. I don't have high hopes for the new Captain America and Thunderbolts*. Imo, they shouldn't have happened in the first place. Even if I wanted for those two to become an ongoing franchise (3 films maXimum), I don't think the general public are going to be eXcited for characters that were supporting characters, headlining their own film. Bucky, Sam Wilson and Yelena aren't that interested enough compare to Spidey and T'Challa, (which both started as supporting character in Civil War). There's also Armor Wars.... I'm perpleXed on why they are still moving forward with that one.

Blade seems like out of hope. If they keep delaying its first mcu film. It wouldn't surprised me, even if the first film is released, that it would lead to more Blade films, especially when the X-Men finally got a reboot. The Fantastic 4, I would hate if it doesn't lead to more FF films or if it ends up as a 2 and done like the original Ff film series from FoX. A trilogy for FF right now feels like a Longshot given the uncertainty with Marvel Studios. Too many ips getting their own films and Marvel Studios just flopped last November. I'm not sure if there would be a big interest for FF2 and FF3 many years later.

I also dislike that Captain Marvel is not going to have a solo movie anymore. I think its easy to ignore that they didn't call The Marvels as Captain Marvel 2 in general. But at least I could still watch it right after Captain Marvel 2019 and see them as both Captain Marvel films. I don't like how the films for most ips (eXcluding Avengers for obvious reasons) under MCU are not going to be even anymore.

Thor - 4
Iron Man - 3
Captain America with Steve - 3
Ant-Man - 3
Guardians - 3
Captain Marvel - 2
Black Widow - 1
Eternals - 1

Imo, for characters like Thor, Capt. Marvel they should have had a trilogy plan. I think a Captain Marvel 2 movie would have performed a lot better in 2021, instead of two years later (2023) when MCU/superhero fatigue finally kicked in and Marvel Studios really finally imploded. Carol could be completing her trilogy by this year or neXt year, if we got her in 2nd solo film in 2021 instead of releasing Black Widow/Eternals in that year. The only character I want to have more than 3 solo films in the MCU is Spider-Man because its Spider-Man and he is with Sony anyway.

Then there's Dr. Strange, Black Panther and Shang-Chi. I'm unsure when they are going to have a trilogy completed. Dr. Strange 3 should have a date by now. It wouldn't surprised if there won't be another Black Panther film, even if the last one was still successful. It really depends on Ryan's interest for another BP film. Shang-Chi 2 is taking so much time.

This is why I'm not really eXcited if Marvel Studios' X-Men '27 starts filming neXt year. Mcu is all over the place now. Its hard to get really invested with every project. I didn't even watch the second season of What If as a result. I think I will skip the other cartoons as well eXcept for the X-Men.

 

[whoknows]

what is happening to marvel studios at this moment in time is exactly what happened to marvel comics in the 70s.
in the 60s they were the fresh, booming comic book company, but by the 70s, with all the floppy new characters, they were nearly bankrupt.
their contract to do the star wars comics saved them from bankrupcy.
MsMarvel/Cpt Marvel was not a big hit in the comics world in the 70s, only lasted 20odd issues, but the all new uncanny x-men proved to be the biggest hit in comics, influencing DC to start the all new teen titans and batman and the outsiders team books.

this is what will happen to marvel movies, the all new x-men movies will put them back on top of the movie game, and we might get some x-men spin off shows, hopefully a wolverine one to give more room to other x-men characters in the movies. wolverine in madripoor would be a big hit for the tv shows.

 

[psylockolussus]

When it comes to the X-Men, I hope they focus on making a new X-Men movie every 2 years and not release any spin off shows. Spin off shows especially live action will dillute any interest for upcoming X-Men movies. That is what happening with the MCU, with these countless Marvel shows for Disney+.

 

[whoknows]

When it comes to the X-Men, I hope they focus on making a new X-Men movie every 2 years and not release any spin off shows. Spin off shows especially live action will dillute any interest for upcoming X-Men movies. That is what happening with the MCU, with these countless Marvel shows for Disney+.

Well, i suppose one spin off show wouldn't do much harm. If it was a Wolverine spin off it would follow the trend of marvel comics, where Wolverine was the only x-man to get his own solo comic series.
That way wolverine fans get their fix without him taking up most of the time in the movies, like what happened before.

edit: or they could make solo wolverine movies at the same time as x-men flicks.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I just realized I never finished What If season 2 lol! Still got 7 episodes. Maybe I will finish it. One day

 

[whoknows]

i just got done reading a what if, what if the hulk killed wolverine?', it didn't end up being very good.
they should just do any kind of what ifs for the actual show, not just based around the movies.
edit: i read plenty of what ifs where i hadn't read the original comic plotline, all you need is a little explanation at the beginning from the watcher.
marvel comics have been doing this for decades they must be doing something right.

 

[psylockolussus]

Well, i suppose one spin off show wouldn't do much harm. If it was a Wolverine spin off it would follow the trend of marvel comics, where Wolverine was the only x-man to get his own solo comic series.
That way wolverine fans get their fix without him taking up most of the time in the movies, like what happened before.

edit: or they could make solo wolverine movies at the same time as x-men flicks.

I stand by my opinion.

And another string of Wolverine movies would be too much. Marvel Studios should focus on releasing a trilogy first. I'd hate to wait 4 years for X-Men 2, and inbetween those 4 years, there's several spin off shows or movies for the X-Men, especially if its the Wolverine again. He's already in a mcu movie this year with his name on the title...

 

[ALittlePush]

I stand by my opinion.

And another string of Wolverine movies would be too much.

I don't think Wolverine will be the lead character of the MCU X-Men. We've had 24 years of Hugh Jackman as Wolverine (so for many, he is the live action Wolverine) and anyone who tries playing the role in the MCU is going to be compared (possibly unfavourably) to him especially as he has just reprised the role in the upcoming Deadpool movie. Jackman's Wolverine will still be too fresh in audiences' minds to bring in someone new to play the role full time. We've already seen his origin in the fox movies so the MCU doesn't necessarily need to cover that again, just like they didn't need to show the MCU's Peter Parker being bitten by the spider to become Spiderman because the audience has seen it before.

I'm not overly fond of the multiverse concept in the MCU. I would've just preferred a single universe and everything occurs within that single timeline. Obviously time travel will create alternate realities of the future from the point the future time traveller travelled back to which would've changed the future that the time traveller travelled from, but it would've still occurred within the same timeline (sort of).

 

[Immortalfire]

I don’t like that I’ve still never had any wheatcakes on screen

 

[Cap2024]

The Multiverse I find to be highly awkward and problematic.

They didn't really seem to know how to follow-up Endgame and beating Thanos.

A badly handled "reset" as Kevin Feige calls it. They announced tons of plans without ever really knowing how to execute them or properly roll them out.

Part of the issue there - is it really a multiverse saga?

* Bold = NOT featuring it
* Italic = has two installments (it becomes even less when factoring in what isn't Loki and What If (as not count them twice))

Wandavision - no signs of it

Falcon and the Winter Solider - no signs of it

Black Widow - no signs of it

Shang-Chi - no signs of it

Eternals - no signs of it

No Way Home - introduction of it

Loki - furthering it

What If - furthering it

Hawkeye - no signs of it

Doctor Strange 2 - furthering it

Thor Love and Thunder - no signs of it

Moon Knight - no signs of it

Ms Marvel - no signs of it

She Hulk - no signs of it

Werewolf By Night - no signs of it

Wakanda Forever - no signs of it

Ant Man - furthering it

Loki Season 2 - furthering it

What If - Furthering it

Echo - no signs of it

Guardians 3 - no signs of it

The Marvels - furthering it

To me it's way less the notion of a multiverse saga and way more - the multiverse is barely incorporated at all. There is no real solid through-line connecting most of these together which has them weirdly play as random (especially because there's a lot of mini-series that are only one offs).

[I kept the release date order as best as I could above, although not entirely accurate]

I'm someone who before each Avengers film - would binge watch them. I'd even have fun jumping back and forth from one to the next according to timeline books (this got really interesting when films were taking place at the same time). Even then, for the most part the plot seemed consistent and like it was all heading to the same endpoint. Each phase was also awesomely thematically connected. I can't say that anymore after Endgame.

I used to defend that saying "just wait for it, they're building everything up." But the more time that passes, I just... I can't - they're seemingly throwing everything at the wall but the kitchen sink.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I'm just gonna go ahead and say it: I dislike the casting of Robert Downey Jr. as Victor von Doom and the pivoting from Avengers 5 from the Kang Dynasty to Doomsday. I dislike it all.

 

[Drizzle]

I'm just gonna go ahead and say it: I dislike the casting of Robert Downey Jr. as Victor von Doom and the pivoting from Avengers 5 from the Kang Dynasty to Doomsday. I dislike it all.

 

[Lip]

I'm going skip the obvious Doom's casting and complaint about the humour, and no I'm not shading Deadpool.

Humour and comedy is fine, but we also need some emotional stakes. Sometimes they lack in this. Or use comedy to avoid it.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I've found several YouTube videos, video essays basically breaking down how not only the MCU has gone downhill, but in some ways has negatively affected cinema overall.

I'll post em one by one.

I'm going skip the obvious Doom's casting and complaint about the humour, and no I'm not shading Deadpool.

Humour and comedy is fine, but we also need some emotional stakes. Sometimes they lack in this. Or use comedy to avoid it.

Sometimes? The MCU is practically just known for their routine of using comedy to avoid their emotional stakes. Guardians 3 might excel at this method of theirs but honestly I feel like even that series overdoes the comedy.

I know you mentioned that you're not sharing Deadpool but the final trailer for the movie was meant to show off the emotional stakes of the film, but tonally it didn't really match what the film was going for at all aside from a moment or two.

And this isn't even getting into them including Dafne Keen when that could've been another great surprise.

 

[LoganPool]

My biggest issue with the MCU is all the unresolved post credit scenes. And the fact that we STILL don't know who bought Avengers Tower.

I have no issues with the comedy. And I have no issues with RDJ as Doom. Sue me.