What is the best Spy network in the MCU? Hydra, Wakandan War Dogs, 10 Rings, or SHIELD.

[eon001]

AIM was Aldrich Killian's company, so not a secret society.

As for SWORD they were introduced in WandaVision, but not based around world domination- so far, because neither was SHIELD until HYDRA took over.

Yea my memory sucks. You're right about SWORD in WandaVision. ‍
AIM and SWORD still doesn't work for my example though. You kinda prove my point calling AIM a company not a society. And I'm not talking about alien surveillance. Spies, and espionage only.

The Winter Soldier programme wasn't far reaching? Can't agree with you there.
Have you actually seen the Winter Soldier movie ? Because Hydra used him to influence world events significantly , Zola straight says so - when he's explaining how Hydra shaped the post war world and fed crises to Cap and Nat.
E.g. In the Marvel universe Howard Stark was a pretty important figure - given his influence on technology ( and his son), and we all know who killed him.

Yea my bad (bad memory strikes again), Winter Soldier WAS a Hydra thing, but that means I don't need to have a separate category for them because there ARE a part of Hydra already.

 

[eon001]

It is one thing to exist, and another thing to exist in a manner that allows you to obtain meaningful intelligence and another thing entirely to exist in a manner that allows you have any, even small levels of, influence.

If you flip it around, and make the Wakandans Caucasians or Asians ( and relocate the country accordingly) it still makes very limited sense for them to be able to successfully spy and influence other countries where they are a visible minority ( at least pre 19th or 20th century). Xenophobia and distrust of the "other" have been around a very long time.

Now going back to the Wakandans as black Africans, you compound their challenge with the various slave trades that exploited black Africans, and it becomes a remote possibility at best.

I'm not a historian, but from my little research, you would be surprised how many black people existed and moved freely in those eras. Keep in mind Wakanda would have already had a head start in technology and infiltration. It would not take much to redirect interest even if it's just manipulating maps and compasses on boats.

Were not talking about a mole living indefinitely in some European castle. It could be a simple as a Wakandan pretending to be Moorish priest passing through an old English Kingdom, keeping tabs and reporting back.

 

[eon001]

I guess maybe the reason Wenwu didn't conquer the whole world is:

A) because of the existence of other, more powerful superpowered beings
B) because aside from himself, none of his soldiers appear to have any powers or magical weapons.

Its all very well for Wenwu to come along and slaughter everyone with his rings, but he then needs his soldiers to garrison the empire and he can't be everywhere at once, meaning that rebellions will happen and things may fall apart relatively quickly.

I don't begrudge the 10 rings too much as they were set up in Iron Man, but the Mandarin beating up Romans puts them at at least 1500-2000 years old - and is dumb as ****! Think about it, As a secret organization bent on gaining as much power as possible, they kind of suck, I mean if you gave the Red Skull that amount of time he'd have conquered the Earth and have Nazi bases on ****ing Mars.
.

There is other way's to gain control and influence without outright dominating the planet. They established that Wenwu already has a network engrained into every major government.

Not every villain needs the cliche of sitting on a throne of there enemies bones with world leaders kissing there feet.

They also established than Wenwu has SOME compassion. He had all the power he felt he needed.

 

[metaphysician]

Regarding Wenwu, I think there are a mix of factors in play. One is that he absolutely did have to respect certain boundaries, because past a certain point of overt rampaging conquest he's going to run into *some* form of powerful opposition. Superbeings are not something new to the present day, and while Wenwu was a 1000 year old warlord with magic kung fu relics, he pretty much *was* the only especially powerful "asset" of his organization. Getting into a fight with Kamar Taj, or Wakanda, or visiting Asgardians, or whatnot? Would have gone very very badly. Sure, most of those parties probably didn't especially care about some dude engaging in a bunch of fairly conventional military conquest, which is why he succeeded to the extent he did, but poking the wrong hornet's nest was never an impossibility, just something he was wise and/or lucky enough to avoid doing.

The other is that, as I read the movie, by the time the 20th century came along? Wenwu just wasn't hugely interested in massive open conquest, and probably hadn't been for some time. Power and authority, sure, but he had his turf, secret but suitably well controlled, and he either had lost interest with straightforward expansion or realized and accepted the limits of his scope. He went after Ta-Lo essentially because it was something new and interesting to do, not as Phase One of a world conquest scheme. And then things went as they did. Let me especially note that, at least in my eyes, people who are fervently dedicated to being the immortal conqueror of Planet Earth aren't very likely to both disband their army and give up immortality in the name of love. Yes, he did sincerely fall for Ying Li, but the other side of that coin was that clearly the things he was giving up were things that didn't matter nearly as much to him anymore.

 

[eon001]

Regarding Wenwu, I think there are a mix of factors in play. One is that he absolutely did have to respect certain boundaries, because past a certain point of overt rampaging conquest he's going to run into *some* form of powerful opposition. Superbeings are not something new to the present day, and while Wenwu was a 1000 year old warlord with magic kung fu relics, he pretty much *was* the only especially powerful "asset" of his organization. Getting into a fight with Kamar Taj, or Wakanda, or visiting Asgardians, or whatnot? Would have gone very very badly. Sure, most of those parties probably didn't especially care about some dude engaging in a bunch of fairly conventional military conquest, which is why he succeeded to the extent he did, but poking the wrong hornet's nest was never an impossibility, just something he was wise and/or lucky enough to avoid doing.

The other is that, as I read the movie, by the time the 20th century came along? Wenwu just wasn't hugely interested in massive open conquest, and probably hadn't been for some time. Power and authority, sure, but he had his turf, secret but suitably well controlled, and he either had lost interest with straightforward expansion or realized and accepted the limits of his scope. He went after Ta-Lo essentially because it was something new and interesting to do, not as Phase One of a world conquest scheme. And then things went as they did. Let me especially note that, at least in my eyes, people who are fervently dedicated to being the immortal conqueror of Planet Earth aren't very likely to both disband their army and give up immortality in the name of love. Yes, he did sincerely fall for Ying Li, but the other side of that coin was that clearly the things he was giving up were things that didn't matter nearly as much to him anymore.

Agreed.
The ancient one alone would have kept him in check. Best thing to do was to just be low key, and pull strings behind the scenes.

 

[metaphysician]

Agreed.
The ancient one alone would have kept him in check. Best thing to do was to just be low key, and pull strings behind the scenes.

Honestly its not even just the Ancient One. Kamar Taj is, and presumably always was, an entire organization of combat trained sorcerers. The worst case scenario for anyone is that they find themselves facing the Ancient One, *and* the inner circle of master sorcerers ( who if Wong is any indicator, are all Avengers-grade superbeings ), *and* potentially several dozen other sorcerers who have lesser but still considerable superpowers plus combat training. That is not something anyone smaller than a god would really want to risk.