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Discussion in 'Batman World' started by Spider-Kurt!, Jul 22, 2012.
The death of Jason Todd maybe?
I would not call Jason Todd, or his death a "vital" element of Batman. *shrugs*
Anyway, for me, Burton and Keaton were getting there with their run of movies... and that's to really get inside Bruce Wayne's head. That pain and that anger; that thing that drives him...that is what is interesting to me to watch.
Nolan made his Bruce Wayne "give up" on the mantle (on more than one occasion) which is something I don't like about his version of Batman. I don't think Bruce ever gives up, period... he's always that guy, and he's never going to bend his knee. He'd rather die first. That's what I'd like to see.
I'd also like to see a more horrific run of villains... Man-Bat or Killer Croc, etc. I wouldn't know how to really pull that off, but someone could make it work. Hell, I'd love to see Harley Quinn "work" in a live film without being butchered.
"Signifigant" may be a better word than "vital" but you get the idea. BTW,I agree that Bruce Wayne is too driven to ever volunteeringly stop being Batman.As for the villains, I'd love to see any of the classic rouges appear but I think most impactual ones already have.
The death of Jason Todd for sure.
The Killing Joke
Something the TV show got right and the movies never did was the feeling of a community of villans. I don't need an origin story for every villan so bringing in a bunch at once could have been cool. I really hate the... now its your turn feeling.
The detective angle. I know that all the movies have included allusions to his deductive skills but I'd like to see a more blatantly explicit exploration of it. I want to see a story where Batman really is as in the dark as the audience about a mystery he's facing and having to find his way through it via lots of clues. In other words I'd like to see a Batman movie that is first and foremost a detective story for a change and not just a character study with some spectacle like we've gotten for over 20 years already.
Damn! I was going to say that!!
I think you could reply with the Detective thing in a film, and it would differentiate the new Batman films from Nolan's or any live adaption of the character...
Show him use his intellect more, and creeping around... the film should almost be like spy film thats very intense holding you in suspense...
And doing it in a way that's not a rehash of the recent Sherlock Holmes movies.
I'd have to say the detective part. I mean, the only time he really does detective work in the Nolan series was when he did the bullet-shooting thing. It's not like it's impossible to do a detective action movie either- the RDJ Sherlock Holmes stuff has proved that to varying degrees of success..
I'd say the CHARACTER (with the exception of the non-Grayson Robins and a honest-to-goodness Barbara Gordon Batgirl) that is the most vital to the mythos that hasn't been done on film is either Leslie Thompkins or Harvey Bullock.
I'd also like to mention how we haven't gotten a Trophy Room in the Batcave yet. I want a giant penny and robot dinosaur, dammit.
The detective element has been touched on in several movies but I also would love to and eventually expect to see a more strait forward focus on it.
Somewhat surprisingly,the vow has never been shown in a movie.I think the Adam West series made reference to it but that doesn't quite count.I think that if we get the Dick Grayson as Robin orgin then we might get Bruce's vow to avenge his parents in a flashback showing the paralell lives of the two.
How Schumacher missed out on the giant penny and the robot dinosaur is beyond me. ;-)
I definitely want to see the graveside vow. At least him visiting the grave in costume.
I want to see the whole psychological impact/development of the vow. The idea that a child made that vow, obsessively pursued it, and the reasons behind it.
The vow followed closely by detective work as others have been saying. Nolan and Burton each explored Bruce is different and good ways, but until we get the a real look at the Bat that's slightly psycho from a graveside vow we haven't seen a vital part of who Bats is IMO.
RDJ's Holmes is pretty spot-on for how I think Batman's detective work and fighting skills would be. That's another failing of Nolan's Batman. The fighting is nice, but they approached it as if Bruce just unleashes his rage and kind of goes in like a brawler tlrsther than an analytical and intelligent. Which always resulted in Batman taking a beating in many situations, especially in TDK. In the first fight he ends up hirt, when he fights in the penthouse and the final fight with Joker. I think the situation is similar in TDKR with the first Bane fight. If he were exhausted like in Knightfall that'd be better, instead he just goes for it without considering he might get beaten.
I just want to see him do some beatdowns like he does in the two recent video games(which mirrors the comic book). And more detective work of course.
I have a feeling that Leslie Thompkims will appear in the next series and this would be a great way to use her in it.
A fully realized Dick Grayson arc, that ends with him as Nightwing, and Batman recruiting the next two Robins in line (and all that goes with their respective stories).
I feel the Bat-family is essential to show his evolution from orphan to hero and father figure.
This. We've delved into Bruce Wayne quite a bit, especially with Nolan. I like that that has happened, but I think a great mystery that focuses more on his detective skills is in order instead of just his physical skills. I think Dark Knight delved into this the most, but it only scratched the surface and Joker laid bait that he knew Batman would figure out.
Maybe a story with Riddler where Riddler is actually a distraction and there's more going on beneath the surface. I think it's important to know that the criminals have to try to outsmart Batman as well. May not be a bad idea to delve into how he became the world's greatest detective either, since that has never been explored. Begins delved into his martial arts training. But the League of Shadows is less interested in detective work.
We've seen detective skills in almost every Batman film. I think what people want to see are Bruce's deduction skills, his ability to take seemingly obscure clues and references and come up with answers.
A would love to see him in a rooftop chase (kinda like Parcour style, but more effective) Nolan should have used that opportunity with Catwoman. And him to use the Batarang like in the Arkham games.
Also a short workout in the cave, have him lift som weights or be on olympic rings, just to show he's in peak condition.
A few mentioned already...
- The vow.
- True detective work.
- Dick Grayson's progression to Nightwing.
And now some I haven't seen mentioned... And they are primarily female characters (who aren't love interests). These characters are a huge part of Bruce's story and they've been neglected for too long.
- Leslie Thompkins - I think she is a vital part of Bruce's story - she is Bruce's mother figure, just like Alfred is the father figure after his parents die. I particularly like Leslie's pacifist stance - it creates an interesting dynamic between them.
- Barbara Gordon / Oracle - If they can get the characterisation right, Barbara's stubborness works incredibly well against Bruce's. I will be very disappointed if we don't see Oracle in the next Batman film series (whether we see her as Batgirl before or not).
- Martha Wayne - pearls aren't enough of a memory. Unfortunately Martha is sidelined in the films, and all of the meanigful memories are about Thomas Wayne. It's a disservice to his mother, who is a very strong character in the comics.
- Insanity - The Dark Knight did this the best, but it wasn't explored since (I would say because they did not want to reference Joker at all). But a truly focused and multifaceted look at insanity (even to some extent how Batman is 'insane') is really needed in a Batman film series - not a tokenistic one of course, more of a deep discussion about escalation, why Gotham attracts such criminal insanity, and how it is dealt with. Nolan almost did it, but I can understand why he retreated given Ledger's death.
i agree with everyone saying that the next batch of movies should definetly be focused on his being the worlds greatest detective, i also want this juxtaposed with batman being the great fighter that he should be, imagine him crashing through a skylight throwing gas pellets and disarming thugs with crippiling acrobatic blows, using batarangs to disarm gun toting thugs...that would be awesome...that and the grandfather clock entrance
Very wll put. While the Riddler seems like the perfect choice on the surface,I think Clayface would be an even better choice to showcase Batman's deductive skills for the simple fact that in most versions Edward Nigma want everyone to know what he's going to do and that it's his master plan. I think a version of Clayface,shape shifter or not who wants people to think that it's not him committing crimes or give them no warning of what he's going to do would be more of a challenge.
BTW,I do want to see the Riddler done right but simply think Clayface has so much potential other than just special effects.