Did DC screw up Jason Todd?

Discussion in 'Batman World' started by Red_Knight, Feb 21, 2008.

  1. Red_Knight Registered

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    Hey everyone,

    I just read Teen Titans East and was rather surprised to see Jason Todd pop up for a cameo. What surprised me even more was seeing him act like a whiny 12-year old and being handled like one by Nightwing and Robin. I mean, there wasn't an ounce of tension in there. It was basically two jocks making mock of their weird little brother. What in the world happened to Jason Todd? :csad:

    Now, I know a lot of people hate the character and hated his return even more, but what's done is done. Since DC is not just going to forget about Jason, I think we can all agree that they should make the best of the situation. Unfortunately, he has been handled in a very dubious way since the one-year leap, IMO.

    I, for one, loved Jason's return. I mean, back when Under The Hood came out, he was just bad-ass! His agenda was ambiguous yet enthralling; his mind games were top notch; he could match Batman blow for blow; and he plowed through anyone who got in his way, mocking even the most dangerous and demented opponents as he brought them to their knees (or simply shot their knee caps out. :wow: ). That's the Jason Todd I loved to read about! That's the Jason Todd who, IMHO, could serve as a twisted mirror image to Batman and be a formidable foe for years to come.

    Instead, he seems to be turning "good" again in Countdown. Why? Seriously, does anyone have any idea? We already have Nightwing and Robin running around. Why do we need Jason Todd back in the fold? How is that more interesting than having him on the other side of the fence?

    I can not remember as single decent Jason Todd story since OYL, and it's getting really annoying. I thought DC had major plans for Jason as a villain. Otherwise, they should have left him dead. Unfortunately, it seems that this ship has sailed. By the time Final Crisis is over, I predict he'll be a hero again. I will sigh deeply and not care.

    What's your take on this issue?
     
  2. DeathRaven Another soul for sale

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    I found him to be a far more interesting character durning the under the hood arc. Like you said you just didnt get that big of an over all feel on what his motivation was but he wasent written as poorly as he has been lately.
     
  3. SenseiofCheese has been expecting you.

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    What I didn't like was how DC seemed to not really take advantage of the possibilities Jason's return offered. For example, I would've loved to read an issue of any Bat-title where the whole Bat-family meets and confronts Jason. No or little as no fighting. Just, Bruce, Dick and Tim, maybe Barbara, talking with Jason.

    As it stands, they didn't really give us any great dramatic, tense moments between these characters, opting to go straight to "Oh, a former loved one just came back from the grave. Let's kick his ass."
     
  4. Red_Knight Registered

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    Agreed. I mean, Jason hasn't even been in a Bat-Family book for months. Shouldn't Batman be shaken to his core? Shouldn't we at least get some kind of update on their relationship and some semblence of closure to their pre-OYL stand-off? Maybe I just missed it, but I don't remember that ever being resolved. Heck, the Bat-Family mentioned Jason more before he came back!
     
  5. I am a Guthrie Registered

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    just look at my sig...
     
  6. DeathRaven Another soul for sale

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    lol, yeah they did seem to jump straight at him with no remorse or anything. A little screwy. You can tell they where just running with the ball on this one, really makes you wonder what we could have gotten if they took there time with him and actually plotted out some well though stories.
     
  7. The Guard Registered

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    When you say "What happened to Jason Todd", are you actually under the assumption that he was ever anything but a shallow whiner? Jason was never an interesting character. His stories and his impact on Batman were.
     
  8. Joker Registered

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    He was never really "bad." He was just sort of like the Punisher, he did what Batman wouldnt when it came to the villains. He still had a loose set of morals (no selling drugs to kids, etc.) and didnt kill innocents. And he's still been killing people over in Countdown. But...I do miss his over-the-top violence from Under The Hood, they have toned it down quite a bit.
     
  9. Lazlo Panaflex Registered

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    I know Dick Grayson is in his mid 20's but is Jason Todd still 12 years old or is he slightly older than Tim Drake?
     
  10. MattMetalHead Deranged Vagrant

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    I could be wrong, but I recall reading somewhere that Jason was 19 or so during Under The Hood. So he'd be in his early 20s now.
     
  11. Batman Dramatic Example

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    Jason Todd was a horrible Robin, and an annoying character in his own right. The only good that's ever come out of the character is the fact that he became a weight of guilt on Batman's shoulder after he died, leading to some great development over the years.

    As Red Hood, he's okay. He's not awe inspiring or the best thing since sliced cheese, but I don't think he's at all horrible as a villain. But I generally enjoyed how Jason's ressurection was alluded to in Hush more than the actual thing itself.
     
  12. Red_Knight Registered

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    Quoted for truth. Unfortunately, it seems like those days are already gone. :csad:

    Personally, I think Jason should have been Hush, as Loeb originally envisioned it. That would have been way cooler than Tommy "Never Heard Of Him Before" Elliot. When Jason finally did come back, it felt almost anti-climatic, and everyone knew it was coming.
     
  13. MattXG Registered

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    I hope he replaces Bruce as Batman post-Final Crisis....
     
  14. Mee 2 E's are better than 1

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    You Nazi.
     
  15. Soundwave88 As you command Megatron.

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    Is that really needed?...I am sorry but i don't think that kinda word sould be said!
     
  16. Nepenthes Registered

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    I absolutely agree Red Knight. I always liked Jason Todd as Robin as well as a dead symbol of failure etc but I was also interested when they bought him back. As Red Hood he had ALOT alot of potential and I wish they'd return him to a similair status. Under The Hood was a surprisingly well told story, I liked that for once the return of a dead character actually had a profound effect on someone (Bruce) in the way he gradually and realistically came to terms with it (did he though?). I LOVED that flashback issue with Alfred, and Jasons obvious resentment and rage to Batman and Joker was a perfect scenario follwing his ressurection.

    To me Red Hood is still the living ghost of Jason Todd, a destroyed man, the dark side of Batmans legacy. As Red Hood he CAN remain be as powerful as he was when he was dead, perhaps even more because he challenges batman in the past AND present now. He's a perfect tactical, ideological and familial rival. He still died. The Jason that could have grown into a happy, mature, benevolent soul is gone. Look at Nightwing, what he became. Social nexus of the hero community, wields admiration and respect, even from Batman. Jason should have had the same chance, you can imagine how he'd feel when he looks at Dick Grayson, hero, pretty boy...the lucky one.

    I think after Countdown is done and over 'Red Robin' and that horrible arc in Nightwing should just be forgotten. Red Robin takes away everything unique about him and it doesn't even make a lick of sense - he's just suddenly all reformed and bland and hopping around in space like UnderTheHood never even happened. He should never be just another 'hero' - this is TRULY truly undoing the signifigance of his past and place in bat mythos. He needs to remain a lost soul and one of Batmans greates failures. A philosophical opponent and not merely another member of Batmans sanctioned family, we've got enough of those do-gooders already. And has Batman forgotten that Jason is a friggin mass murderer?

    Jason needs his own miniseries to cement who he is and what he represents from now on, something that ties up his dodgy past as a homicidal, gun totin' Robin, his death and ressurection, the new segue into Red Hood and his efforts to find himself in the world of the living again. The guy was Living the Life, a swashbuckling teenaged apprentice to the Batman (it doesn't get much cooler than that!) and then he's BETRAYED BY HIS OWN MOTHER, brutally murdered, spends an eternity in blackness and next thing he knows he's DIGGING HIMSELF OUT OF A GRAVE. Complete mind fck. His adopted fathers' enemies bring him back to life, Batmans extensive training is compounded by that of the League of Assassins (who are not exactly slouches themselves) - eventually making Jason an extremely formidable, pissed off, confused and broken man who can't actually have a meaningful relationship with anybody and has spent his entire adult life being dead. What a boring whinger, sure.


    Three things need to happen to resolve this character.
    1. A proper showdown with Tim and Dick. This has not happenend yet. They all have a very.....complicated relationship, let's put it that way. A no holds barred coming together would be awesome to see.

    2. The three Robins must work together on a case. Tim and Jason have never actually met, Dick and Jason used to have a tenuous brotherly dynamic going on. People actually forget that Jason was an extemely capable Robin and he didn't *always* act like a jerk back then. The UndertheHood phase should be seen as his spasmic rebirth - of course he'd be a little unhinged. But he should level out and remain *rationally* philosophically opposed to Batman & Co even if he's not specifically at their throats anymore.

    3. Batman & Jason hug it out. Last time they talked they were throwing punches at the same time, not very civil. There still needs to be a resolotion here.

    4. Batman STILL doesn't know how Jason returned. This is preposterous. Bruce would go to the ends of the earth of get to the bottom of this. Maybe here's an opportunity for Bats and Jason to travel together, work their stuff out and find a better way to explain his return. No reality punch nonsense.

    5. Jason Todd + Damian Al Ghul! Do not tell me that isnt gold right there. They should be the darker duo to Tim & Drake, fighting over the playsation and trading tips on how to cripple people. I also think it's natural that Jason finds some type of mother figure in his life, to keep him grounded and help him find his feet again. Talia or Ivy are the obvious partners. He also made out with Talia lets not forget.

    After all this is done, Jason simply cannot coexist with Batman in Gotham City, he needs to move away and become set-up as a true rogue/ally on the level of Talia or Bane, someone with his own organisation, ideals, and the will to carry them out. He's not just some street level vigilante beating up drug dealers in back alleys. He should be the equivalent of Nightwing if Dick had the balls to take up a feifdom of his own. Jason as an underworld boss would be alright, keeping the streets safe for civilians by enforcing the criminal order with an iron fist, fending of challengers, etc. Or maybe he should just be a globetrotting scourge of criminals, playing up the fact that he's never really 'belonged' anywhere. He was a street urchin at the beginning, return him to his vagrant roots. Whatver the case he needs a clear purpose other than hanging around Donna Troy and looking like Spaceghost.

    and btw there was already a Jason Tood thread. it has nice pretty pictures!
     
  17. Joker Registered

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    You dont think Nazi should be said? It's a political affiliation, not a racial slur or something, and those who are ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it...
     
  18. vanzetti Registered

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    didnt they turn jason todd into an octopus in nightwing? that might be considered screwing up a character.
     
  19. Joker Registered

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    only for a few pages :o
     
  20. Mee 2 E's are better than 1

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    :lips:
     
  21. The Guard Registered

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    This is why I stopped reading comics on a regular basis. Can someone explain what's going on with Jason Todd after UNDER THE HOOD II? What the hell is Red Robin? I mean, I know who Red Robin is, but what have they MADE it into?
     
  22. storyteller Registered

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    I like the red robin Jason. He's got hero qualities but he hasnt gone boyscout. Hell save a guy out of instinct but wont get himself killed to save someone who doesnt want saving. Outside of countdown he was portrayed as a 12 year old stuck in an adult body(even though he was dead for like what a few months?).
     
  23. Cobblepot Giant-Size Man-Thing

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    He shuld have stayed dead. On the other hand it makes Batman hate Talia & Ghul even more.
     
  24. RobC Registered

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    Personally I loved Under The Hood, I loved his return. Jason was always Batman's greatest failure, the person he couldn't save. There were echo's of his parents right there, and to lose him to the Joker makes it even worse.

    The death of Jason had such a profound impact on Bruce and Batman, I think the only other character who could come near it would be Dick. Even when Superman died Batman stayed out of it, there was no mega-mourning. But Jason got his own statue in the cave. It's almost like Batman *wanted* a constant reminder that he'd failed.

    Jason's return was ace, I loved it as a story, the way Bruce kept denying it, even though he knew, he was still shocked when Jason took off the mask. That's what that story was all about.
     

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