Comics What killed Gwen?

[Hobgoblin]

Joker and I are having a debate. He says that Gwen was killed before Spidey even arrived at the bridge and there was nothing he could do to save her. He cited Osborn telling Parker "Romantic idiot! She was dead before your webbing reached her! A fall from that height would kill anyone--before they struck the ground."

I say that the sudden stop from the web line killed her, leaving Peter at fault. Not solely at fault, but the majority. Thats why the writers added the "snap" sound effect to Gwen's death. As for Peter, he certainly thinks that he killed Gwen. Every time he saves a person from falling at a great height, he never uses the single line to stop their fall. He swung down to catch clone Gwen during the Clone Saga as she fell from the Brooklyn Bridge. He used multiple lines to catch MJ as she fell in the Shush story.

Who would you trust? Osborn or Parker? Norm doesnt seem like the trust worthy sort, personally.

 

[Dope Nose]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Night_Gwen_Stacy_Died

Shock of the fall

The Goblin told Spider-Man in The Amazing Spider-Man (vol. 1) #121 that the shock of the fall killed Gwen--"Romantic idiot! She was dead before your webbing reached her! A fall from that height would kill anyone—before they struck the ground!"

Accidental death

Spider-Man himself worries that it was the sudden stop, and he torments himself with the what-if question that if he had not stopped her fall, she might have survived hitting the water below. Indeed, in What If? (vol. 1) #24, Spider-Man saves Gwen not by letting her fall, but by being able to leap down in time to catch her.

The original comic features a "snap" sound effect next to her head in the panel in which Spider-Man's webbing catches her, leading to debate as to whether or not that indicated her neck was snapped. In the History Channel special Spider-Man Tech, Stan Lee himself alludes to the hypothesis that her neck may have indeed been snapped. Further confusing the issue, some reprints of the story take out the "snap" sound effect.

Writer Gerry Conway admitted that he added the "snap" into the story to torture readers with the distinct possibility that Spider-Man himself may have inadvertently killed Gwen, a "snap" that neither Spider-Man nor the Green Goblin heard (hence the Goblin's assumption in The Amazing Spider-Man (vol. 1) #121 that the shock of the fall killed Gwen - "Romantic idiot! She was dead before your webbing reached her! A fall from that height would kill anyone—before they struck the ground!")

In The Amazing Spider-Man (vol. 1) #125 (October 1973), Roy Thomas wrote in the letters column that "it saddens us to have to say that the whiplash effect she underwent when Spidey's webbing stopped her so suddenly was, in fact, what killed her. In short, it was impossible for Peter to save her. He couldn't have swung down in time; the action he did take resulted in her death; if he had done nothing, she still would certainly have perished. There was no way out." They also explained that Gerry Conway, Roy Thomas, and Stan Lee had decided that she had to die because Peter Parker wasn't ready for marriage, and the relationship was too often off and on again.

This also follows with what physicist and comic collector James Kakalios has written in his book The Physics of Superheroes, which states that physically, it was the whiplash effect which killed her.

 

[The Joker]

^^^ Ok, that's just too many conflicting testimonies :-\

 

[Jack O Lantern]

^^^ Ok, that's just too many conflicting testimonies :-\

And it get's worse when you read stories that retell her death. In Millar's Marvel Knight story and in JMS's ASM 500 Gwen is awake through the battle, but in the oringial story she is unconscienous.

 

[lou2099]

was there ever, EVER a mention of an autopsy?

 

[moraldeficiency]

Gwen got off easy.

 

[Dragon]

Here's the thing... The whiplash couldn't have killed Gwen- because there is no whiplash with Spidey's webbing. As the movies so effectively display, Spidey's webbing is not like rope, which is unyielding. Spidey's webbing stretches with a bungee effect. In fact, if it didn't stretch, it would never have reached Gwen at all. So, once the webline had a firm hold on Gwen's leg, it would have stretched with her weight, coming to a gradual, not a sudden stop. If the webbing didn't work this way, Spidey would regularly wrench his arms out of their sockets.

What's always puzzled me is that people have never looked at the most obvious culprit- the hit that sent Gwen flying from the bridge in the first place. Look at the scene- Spidey is reaching for Gwen- but the Goblin swoops in and hits her before Spidey can reach her. We're talking about a solid metal device, with sharp edges, flying at top speed, which can easily carry a load of more than 1000 lbs. (If you go by the movie that increases to several tons).

The impact would have certainly been fatal. Fact is, if the comics weren't censored, the impact would have likely cut Gwen in two.

 

[moraldeficiency]

even with a bungee cord there's a bit of a whiplash that you feel. Damn, I need to go again now.

 

[Dragon]

Yeah.. But it doesn't kill you.

 

[moraldeficiency]

It would depend on the height, elasticity, weather(temp) and how it was hooked up, but I agree. That's a good theory you have there.

 

[Dragon]

I thank you...

The other point is, that Spidey not killing Gwen with the webline does nothing to lessen his guilt. In fact, the issue of the whiplash, letting her fall, or swinging downward shifts focus from the real reason Peter is culpable in Gwen's death. His cowardice in telling her the truth about his identity left Gwen with an unseen target on her back. Had Peter been straight with her, she could have decided whether or not she wanted to take the risks, and could have been a bit more onguard about the danger she was in.

 

[Meehaul]

Hmms...I wonder if we can retcom in MJ for Gwen? If they can remove the "snap," why not color the hair?

 

[moraldeficiency]

I'd start reading again if they take out peter parker makes a deal with the devil for personal gain.

 

[Dragon]

Hmms...I wonder if we can retcom in MJ for Gwen? If they can remove the "snap," why not color the hair?

If only...

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

This is very quesitonable, but I'd say that the sudden stop is what killed Gwen.

 

[Themanofbat]

I think in the letter's pages of ASM #126 or #127, when a fan writes in about the events of ASM #121/122, the editor states that it was the the sudden shock of the webbing that made her neck snap that killed her.

I realize that the webbing itself has an elasticity factor, but given the right circumstances, an unconcious human falling at the right angle could still suffer a broken neck in spite of an elastic webline...

 

[kguillou]

They also explained that Gerry Conway, Roy Thomas, and Stan Lee had decided that she had to die because Peter Parker wasn't ready for marriage, and the relationship was too often off and on again.

Wait, WHAT?!? They decided to kill gwen because they didnt want peter married?? Wow, what is it with marvel and their fear of peter in a committed relationship? I thought they decided to kill gwen simply just to have peter go through another tragic loss.

 

[Hobgoblin]

In The Amazing Spider-Man (vol. 1) #125 (October 1973), Roy Thomas wrote in the letters column that "it saddens us to have to say that the whiplash effect she underwent when Spidey's webbing stopped her so suddenly was, in fact, what killed her. In short, it was impossible for Peter to save her. He couldn't have swung down in time; the action he did take resulted in her death; if he had done nothing, she still would certainly have perished. There was no way out." They also explained that Gerry Conway, Roy Thomas, and Stan Lee had decided that she had to die because Peter Parker wasn't ready for marriage, and the relationship was too often off and on again.

Hm, a differing explanation from what I'd heard. I thought it was because Gwen was going nowhere as a character, so they killed her off. Peter loved her but couldnt marry her, becuase he couldnt risk her knowing his ID since she hated Spider-Man.

Not trusting a potential wife is very different from not being ready for marriage.

 

[Themanofbat]

Gwen became rather two-dimensional after Stan had her father killed, where she basically became an "I hate Spider-Man because he killed my father" blah blah blah...

Read the issues after ASM #90, other than the Savage Land stories, she really added nothing more to the books other than the aforementioned drama...

 

[iloveclones]

Ah, the Savage Land stories.......

 

[Kraven]

Even if it was Spidey's webbing that snapped her neck/killed her, I definately don't think that leaves Peter at fault or to blame. Had the Goblin never pushed her off the edge, there would have been no need for the attempt to save her.

 

[Mutagen]

Usually something that doesn't contribute to the story is left out. Why put in the snap? To say she died by that is certainly reasonable.

While a super-villain that kills people claims that she was already dead, carries the same arguement. Why tell Spider-man she was already dead? Maybe because he's full of pride and wants to take full credit to piss the Web-head more.

Maybe they put it in to screw with your head. That maybe it's up to interpretation of story for the reader, and better left unknown.

There is more evidence to support the snap theory though.

 

[Morg]

This is very quesitonable, but I'd say that the sudden stop is what killed Gwen.

If I recall it was mention in Marvels that Spider-Man webbing and the sudden stop cause Gwen's death

 

[imdaly]

It's been a while since I read it, but didn't "A Death in the Family" from Peter Parker: Spider-Man vol2. #44-#47 finally answer this?

 

[[A]]

what issue is this? Gwen's death, I mean--so I can check it out again