Comics Gwen Stacy or Mary Jane?

[Dangerous]

True letting Brock of the hook in #375 was dumb, (tho he did try a Spidey tracer, Venom crushed it, ok that’s no excuse) but PP/SM had been written well and in character since ASM#375.
I guess for you that just sticks out as the first real odd thing.
As you know this was just so they could lead up to Venom becoming a good guy.

 

[Dragon]

True letting Brock of the hook in #375 was dumb, (tho he did try a Spidey tracer, Venom crushed it, ok that’s no excuse) but PP/SM had been written well and in character since ASM#375.
I guess for you that just sticks out as the first real odd thing.
As you know this was just so they could lead up to Venom becoming a good guy.

I know the reason they did it. But they shouldn't have, as it severely damaged Spidey as a character, and he has yet to recover from that and similar decisions. The point is, that Spider-Man would never let a criminal go free as long as they were a danger. Especially after the deaths of Gwen and Ben.

 

[Mara Jane]

I have to admit I'm tired of this debate, but I don't necessarily agree with the assumption many people make that Pete & Gwen would still be together if she had lived. There is still one unknown factor: Gwen did not know Pete's secret identity at the time of her death. She is/was a perfect wife for Pete (assuming you choose to ignore Sins Past, which I do), but it is entirely debatable whether she could handle being Spider-Man's wife or not. As long as there is a doubt about this, I don't think it's safe to say that "of course they'd still be together/married if she'd lived." The truth is, we just don't know because she did die too soon.

I have a feeling that if she had lived, their marriage would probably have been written not too unlike his marriage with MJ: mostly lacking in imagination on the part of the writers.

 

[Mara Jane]

Double post. Sorry.

 

[Dragon]

I have to admit I'm tired of this debate, but I don't necessarily agree with the assumption many people make that Pete & Gwen would still be together if she had lived. There is still one unknown factor: Gwen did not know Pete's secret identity at the time of her death. She is/was a perfect wife for Pete (assuming you choose to ignore Sins Past, which I do), but it is entirely debatable whether she could handle being Spider-Man's wife or not. As long as there is a doubt about this, I don't think it's safe to say that "of course they'd still be together/married if she'd lived." The truth is, we just don't know because she did die too soon.

I have a feeling that if she had lived, their marriage would probably have been written not too unlike his marriage with MJ: mostly lacking in imagination on the part of the writers.

Well, you're 100% correct about the marriage being written lacking any imagination. That was in fact the problem with the relationship just prior to Gwen's death. Little thought was put into it.

However, it's pretty clear that Gwen could handle learning that Peter was Spidey. If she could handle being kidnapped by a giant monster and keep her cool she could handle Peter's double life. The issue of course would be her accepting that Spidey wasn't responsible for her Dad's death. And truth be told, had she lived that could have made for a great storyline- her mistrusting Peter and then having to come to terms with the whole thing. Provided of course they didn't go the soap opera route.

I know the likes of MadGoblin believe that her reaction in ASM #87 suggests she couldn't. But that's not really accurate. Gwen wasn't reacting so much to Peter's revelation, but the way he made it. Straight up, in that scene he was just acting whacko in general, ID reveal or not.

In the end, they're fictional characters. How they react or don't react is purely at the whim of the writers. SP is the prime example of this. If they wanted to have a Gwen-Peter marriage work, they would. But I'm saying to further my point made earlier that while MJ is indeed a great character, Gwen had more story potential for being a force in Peter/Spidey's life.

 

[The Joker]

However, it's pretty clear that Gwen could handle learning that Peter was Spidey. If she could handle being kidnapped by a giant monster and keep her cool she could handle Peter's double life.

Hmmmm that's not really the same thing. Just because she can keep her cool in a crisis doesn't necessarily mean she'd be prepared to accept Peter as Spider-Man.

The issue of course would be her accepting that Spidey wasn't responsible for her Dad's death. And truth be told, had she lived that could have made for a great storyline- her mistrusting Peter and then having to come to terms with the whole thing.

There's another thing. Peter WAS mainly responsible for Captain Stacy's death. Peter used an untested formula on Ock to try and stop him, and disaster happened. It's Peter's fault Ock's tentacles went out of control and knocked that chimney over.

Very stupid of Peter to use an untested formula on a super villain like that. Especially one as dangerous as Ock. He's actually very lucky that only one person died from his actions.

So it's really up in the air as to whether Gwen could forgive him for that too.

 

[freemadison]

I know the reason they did it. But they shouldn't have, as it severely damaged Spidey as a character, and he has yet to recover from that and similar decisions. The point is, that Spider-Man would never let a criminal go free as long as they were a danger. Especially after the deaths of Gwen and Ben.

Yeah...and then Brock was never really the same either after that definitive beatdown by Ben Reilly. Even Ben noticed Peter's lack of judgement in those issues.

 

[Dragon]

Yeah...and then Brock was never really the same either after that definitive beatdown by Ben Reilly. Even Ben noticed Peter's lack of judgement in those issues.

On the Reilly subject- This is something i don't get. When they introduced Ben with the intent of making him the true Spider-Man, they undid much of the damage done to Peter, by making Ben a more effective Spider-Man. But when they brought Peter back, they have him remain the same wuss he's been for so mny years.

 

[Dragon]

Hmmmm that's not really the same thing. Just because she can keep her cool in a crisis doesn't necessarily mean she'd be prepared to accept Peter as Spider-Man.

It shows her inner strength. Why would a woman not accept Peter's double life? Fear. Gwen wasn't afraid of anything.

There's another thing. Peter WAS mainly responsible for Captain Stacy's death. Peter used an untested formula on Ock to try and stop him, and disaster happened. It's Peter's fault Ock's tentacles went out of control and knocked that chimney over.

Very stupid of Peter to use an untested formula on a super villain like that. Especially one as dangerous as Ock. He's actually very lucky that only one person died from his actions.

So it's really up in the air as to whether Gwen could forgive him for that too.

And that- is why Gwen was the perfect mate for Peter. Again- the drama was there. The challeneges were there. Spider-Man level challenges. There are no such friction with MJ. Nothing remotely that interesting. Again- it would take a seriously badassed writer to exploit them. But it's possible.

 

[Cyclops]

A dead woman or a vivacious redhead? Hmm. Tough choice.

 

[Majik1387]

Gwen Stacy has always been too good for Peter.

 

[Cyclops]

He doesn't deserve a corpse?

 

[Majik1387]

^Obviously I was talking pre-death.

 

[Cyclops]

I know, but what's the point in comparing the dead woman to the live one?

 

[Majik1387]

^Ask the thread starter.

 

[CBG]

Something that weighed on my mind. Just wanted to see what are other people's perspectives.

Of course, I could have used the search function. . . I apologize for my mistake.

 

[freemadison]

On the Reilly subject- This is something i don't get. When they introduced Ben with the intent of making him the true Spider-Man, they undid much of the damage done to Peter, by making Ben a more effective Spider-Man. But when they brought Peter back, they have him remain the same wuss he's been for so mny years.

I know...you'd think he'd learn some bad-assery from his double but nooooo

 

[Dragon]

I know...you'd think he'd learn some bad-assery from his double but nooooo

Yeah. Marvel should have a rule that no matter how much Spidey takes (And he should take ALOT), that in the end he hands his foes their asses. Always.

 

[Dangerous]

Well, you're 100% correct about the marriage being written lacking any imagination. That was in fact the problem with the relationship just prior to Gwen's death. Little thought was put into it.

However, it's pretty clear that Gwen could handle learning that Peter was Spidey. If she could handle being kidnapped by a giant monster and keep her cool she could handle Peter's double life. The issue of course would be her accepting that Spidey wasn't responsible for her Dad's death. And truth be told, had she lived that could have made for a great storyline- her mistrusting Peter and then having to come to terms with the whole thing. Provided of course they didn't go the soap opera route.

I know the likes of MadGoblin believe that her reaction in ASM #87 suggests she couldn't. But that's not really accurate. Gwen wasn't reacting so much to Peter's revelation, but the way he made it. Straight up, in that scene he was just acting whacko in general, ID reveal or not.

In the end, they're fictional characters. How they react or don't react is purely at the whim of the writers. SP is the prime example of this. If they wanted to have a Gwen-Peter marriage work, they would. But I'm saying to further my point made earlier that while MJ is indeed a great character, Gwen had more story potential for being a force in Peter/Spidey's life.

The way I always read Gwen was that she was a really strong willed level headed person that stood up for what she believed to be the right thing.
Her image of Spider-man was quite a confused one because she believed he caused her dads death when in fact he did not, this was no doubt helped along by the Daily Bugle.
The Captain however, respected PP/SM and in the end we find out that he knew they were the same person.

I believe if Gwen knew what really happened and also knew what her dad thought of Spidey, then her and Peter could have had a very successful married life, and that she would totally back him up in any situation. The difficult part would be trying to guess whether or not she would believe Peter about what really happened.

 

[Cyclops]

The problem with Spider-Man today I think is that Bendis supplanted the real Spider-Man with Ultimate Spider-Man in New Avengers and everyone else seems to be just following suit.

 

[Dangerous]

and lots of the readers don't seem to care either.

 

[Cyclops]

The very concept of Spider-Man being the impressionable newbie in a team with Luke Cage, Spider-Woman, and Wolverine is just silly.

Heck, he's even been around longer than Iron Man. Why is Spider-Man the rookie?

 

[freemadison]

The very concept of Spider-Man being the impressionable newbie in a team with Luke Cage, Spider-Woman, and Wolverine is just silly.

Heck, he's even been around longer than Iron Man. Why is Spider-Man the rookie?

Let's NOT forget that Luke Cage was called Power Man.

Let's NOT forget that Spider-Woman is a lame, obligatory knockoff.

The only person who frequently throws respect his way is Murdock (but not in Ultimate, eeeesh)

 

[FNSpider-man]

dont know how many people have read this issue, I just picked it up and was an interesting read.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=001&item=110039790789&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1

 

[fangrl06]

He could have chosen Gwen when her clone was around. He could have, but didn't. He realized that his feelings for her were no longer the same. He went home TO BE WITH MJ.

That was his decision right there. No need to speculate about it here.

Gwen's dead. Rightfully so anyway, she was a boring character.

Amen. Except the part about Gwen being boring...I liked Gwen.