What next for the WWE, does it have a reason to exist?

[Warhammer]

"Stupid people" is an opinion.

I didn't say "all." I said many. Part of why I feel that way is whenever I see it I just cringe at the cheapness of it.

Well, I guess I can't change how you feel.
I see wrestling as no more violent, if not less violent, than alot of film today.

so what? that doesn't mean children think they are going to be evil spirits.

What are you talking about?

The Exorcist was about a girl who was possessed by the devil.
You missed my whole point about how violent it was. I'm NOT talking about the plot, I'm talking about the violence in the movie. What child thinks that they are going to be evil spirits?

I think the human race is quite often ignorant and headed for extinction.

Who says that?
Seriously, you must think of yourself as superior to most humans.

A lot of time feminists have good points. Stastically speaking all over the world, women are less likely to commit acts of violence, support war, or support the death penalty then men.

That doesn't change the fact that some feminist views are downright ignorant.

And a lot of men do that. How could you not know that? What have you been living under a rock your whole life?

No, what you said is an opinion.
Who are you to speak for every male who watches wrestling? Last time I checked, you weren't Professor Xavier. All men who watch wrestling must idolize the men because they want to be them? Ridiculous.

I'm sorry, but I think you are a feminist, with your dogmatic views of men.

 

[Whirlysplat]

Damn, that sucks.

Sounds like it had more to do with Anit-depressants than Steroids.

He was taking the prescription medication with the steroids, this is a very common propblem sadly and often results in an explosive mix. It way well be the low mood was due to neuro transmitter dumping caused by coming off steroids to many times abruptly at the end of a cycle. Yup it did suck, his wife left him and it's unlikely he will ever see her or his son again and he ended up in a mental institution last i heard.

 

[Whirlysplat]

If that were true? The fan base wouldnt be mostly males 23-60 and females 18-35.

You can't use this thread as a general analysis for the MILLIONS of fans WORLD WIDE. Are you insane?

Adults are wrestlings main fans? Really? I don't think so.

I don't care which stance McMahon takes in the future as long as he's willing to admit the effect of steroids on the psyche of Benoit, who had been portrayed otherwise as a family man who cared and a great friend to those on the WWE tour.

He needs to explain to the kids that idolise them why the wrestling stars of the 1960s and '70s are more likely to be living enjoyable, healthy lives than many of their 1980s-through-present-day counterparts. Tell the kids where all the back acne and lantern jaws on their heroes come from and why these guys make Superman look puny.

 

[jaguarr]

I used to be into wrestling when I was a little kid and then in my 20's during the hey day of WCW/NWO and the WWF. I was even into ECW whenever I could watch it. Pro wrestling goes through revolutions. In the 80's it was huge with guys like Hulk Hogan, Macho Man and Andre the Giant. In the late 90's we had Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Rock and Mick Foley. Wrestling right now is in it's low point and will be back in the high again at some point whenever they have a guy who goes above and beyond wrestling. In light of the recent deaths of Sherri Martel and the murder suicide of Chris Benoit and his family, I think what needs to be done is a strict steroid policy where just like baseball and football the government unfortunately needs to step in and regulate the actions of all pro wrestling.

So, I find pro-wrestling ludicrous. I stopped watching when I was about 22, but up to that point it was great fun as far as distractions go. It fills a need for young males who want to have hero's and villains to root for/against but don't dig comics or regular sports.

Your suggestion about steroid regulation with the WWE is misguided, though. Steroids are NOT related to the deaths of Chris Benoit and his family or to the death of Sherri Martel. Regulating them with the WWE wouldn't change what happened to them in any way and trying to use that as an excuse to regulate an industry that really isn't about sports competition (the winners and losers are pre-determined...it's not sports, it's a show like a Broadway play) like say baseball or football is off base. It also suggest bigger government for no real reasons I can see, and I'm not for my tax dollars being used to regulate an entertainment industry, just the same as I wouldn't want the government to regulate steroid use among Hollywood stunt-men or Cirque de Sole troupe members. It's a privatized business venture with no actual competition. As long as they aren't breaking any laws, there's no reason to set up a government regulatory committee just for them. Let's spend taxpayer dollars on things that matter (not that our government is doing a good job of that lately, either).

jag

 

[ArmyDragon92A]

Adults are wrestlings main fans? Really? I don't think so.

I don't care which stance McMahon takes in the future as long as he's willing to admit the effect of steroids on the psyche of Benoit, who had been portrayed otherwise as a family man who cared and a great friend to those on the WWE tour.

He needs to explain to the kids that idolise them why the wrestling stars of the 1960s and '70s are more likely to be living enjoyable, healthy lives than many of their 1980s-through-present-day counterparts. Tell the kids where all the back acne and lantern jaws on their heroes come from and why these guys make Superman look puny.

Yes. Adults are WWE's Main fan base. Regardless of your opinion, it's a fact. He doesn't need to explain anything because it's known that wrestling isn't "real" and it's not Vince's job to disclose that over and over. If a child is foolish un learnt enough for his or her mentality to be tainted by the plot and progression of a WWE story line, then it's mainly the PARENT's fault and no one elses. Simple as that.

 

[ArmyDragon92A]

So, I find pro-wrestling ludicrous. I stopped watching when I was about 22, but up to that point it was great fun as far as distractions go. It fills a need for young males who want to have hero's and villains to root for/against but don't dig comics or regular sports.

Your suggestion about steroid regulation with the WWE is misguided, though. Steroids are NOT related to the deaths of Chris Benoit and his family or to the death of Sherri Martel. Regulating them with the WWE wouldn't change what happened to them in any way and trying to use that as an excuse to regulate an industry that really isn't about sports competition (the winners and losers are pre-determined...it's not sports, it's a show like a Broadway play) like say baseball or football is off base. It also suggest bigger government for no real reasons I can see, and I'm not for my tax dollars being used to regulate an entertainment industry, just the same as I wouldn't want the government to regulate steroid use among Hollywood stunt-men or Cirque de Sole troupe members. It's a privatized business venture with no actual competition. As long as they aren't breaking any laws, there's no reason to set up a government regulatory committee just for them. Let's spend taxpayer dollars on things that matter (not that our government is doing a good job of that lately, either).

jag

 

[jaguarr]

The guy concerned was a friend of mine he was also a very serious amateur bodybuilder. He had been unemployed for a number of years and lived in a council house, despite this he was intelligent and articulate and always seemed to have money (because he was selling gear). One day I was at the gym and I heard he had been arrested the previous night for stabbing his wife. It turned out he was on prescription medication for"low mood" and had had a number of episodes previously. Believe it or not he even told the Doctor the weak previously, "he was not taking his medication and his wife was annoying him" and yet he was not sectioned on the spot. Given his size and strength and the fact it took six Policemen to get the cuffs on him this might have made sense. I could go into more detail but the incident upset me and was a prime reason in my giving up the gear.

There are more and more problems cropping up with these mood altering drugs that are being prescribed for depression or "low mood", including bouts of violence and suicidal activities. It's to epidemic proportions, I believe. Steroids are not psychoactive, though they can jump the testosterone levels in an individual so high that they have anger management issues as a result (I can't believe I'm defending steroids since I'm firmly against using them, personally). I'd point to his anti-depression meds as the primary issue where your friend is concerned. It's sad to hear about cases like this.

jag

 

[Whirlysplat]

Steroids are NOT related to the deaths of Chris Benoit and his family

Directly as "Roid Rage" I agree, however who is to say Steroids, combined with prescription pills (especially overusage of them), stress, concussions, mental and physical fatigue, and other factors from over 15 years on the road could have manifested into a series of events that led Benoit down the tragic path he took this past weekend. Steroids should be on the media radar this week, but not judged in comparison to a bodybuilder or athlete or gym rat who use steroids. Benoit had many other factors that could have made the effects of steroids - either being on them or withdrawal from coming off of them - much worse.

Oh, WWE's claim that Benoit passed a steroid test in April says nothing about potential drugs in his system two months later. And placing Bibles by the sides of his slain wife and son also doesn't disqualify "roid rage." Instead, it could be a sign of regret for what he did in his fit of rage or compassion for his victims once he "came down."

paraphrased/plaguarised from the a Times article today

- Whirly

 

[jaguarr]

Directly as "Roid Rage" I agree, however who is to say Steroids, combined with prescription pills (especially overusage of them), stress, concussions, mental and physical fatigue, and other factors from over 15 years on the road could have manifested into a series of events that led Benoit down the tragic path he took this past weekend. Steroids should be on the media radar this week, but not judged in comparison to a bodybuilder or athlete or gym rat who use steroids. Benoit had many other factors that could have made the effects of steroids - either being on them or withdrawal from coming off of them - much worse.

Oh, WWE's claim that Benoit passed a steroid test in April says nothing about potential drugs in his system two months later. And placing Bibles by the sides of his slain wife and son also doesn't disqualify "roid rage." Instead, it could be a sign of regret for what he did in his fit of rage or compassion for his victims once he "came down."

paraphrased/plaguarised from the a Times article today

- Whirly

They also found unnamed narcotics in Benoit's house, which further complicates the matter. I'd say 'roids were the LEAST of Benoit's problems.

jag

 

[kainedamo]

Whirlysplat, by your same logic, Power Rangers and all its spin offs should be taken off tv.

Thin plot lines, bad acting, a massive child audience, and lots of violence. And you can't say that doesn't effect kids, 'cause it does. Makes them all hyper and ****. Should we ban that?

And also, at no point have I actually seen someone from the police investigation say "we think Benoit was affected by the drugs". As soon as it was heard prescription steroids were found on the scene, news networks like Fox news went crazy and had headlines like "Roid Rage??". Its an irresponsible thing to do, because you basically have people believing Benoit went nuts on drugs and thats why he killed his family, when that hasn't been established at all.

Maybe Benoit was just an *******.

 

[Henry Hill]

I have never been it's biggest fan. I don't enjoy it's "stories", I believe it promotesbullying and many morally questionable ideas. In the light of the steroid linked deaths and the Benoit murder/suicides is it time this "sport" is no longer seen as entertainment.

The UFC for instance provides real gladitorial spectacle, without the ludicrous soap opera. It has a far more wholesome image and promotes sportsman like behaviour for the most part, as does pro boxing which is also real. I ask you WWE, what is it's point?

Its point is to entertain, and I don't see how the deaths that are related to it change its purpose. It's no less valid than any other form of entertainment/art out there. Going by your logic, Rock & Roll shouldn't be considered entertainment because of all of the drug related deaths that have taken place.

 

[Whirlysplat]

There are more and more problems cropping up with these mood altering drugs that are being prescribed for depression or "low mood", including bouts of violence and suicidal activities. It's to epidemic proportions, I believe. Steroids are not psychoactive, though they can jump the testosterone levels in an individual so high that they have anger management issues as a result (I can't believe I'm defending steroids since I'm firmly against using them, personally). I'd point to his anti-depression meds as the primary issue where your friend is concerned. It's sad to hear about cases like this.

jag

Steroids are not directly psychoactive but as I said earlier in the same way normal sex horomones affect mood, steroids do cause a number of things to happen to neurotransmitter concentration. Remember the first effect of using steroids is increased neuro muscular recruitment without restating longterm mood altering and transmitter dumping effects.

Yes, it appears an unusual juxtaposition, considering many of our previous chats doesn't it and yes it is

 

[Whirlysplat]

They also found unnamed narcotics in Benoit's house, which further complicates the matter. I'd say 'roids were the LEAST of Benoit's problems.

jag

Well it's likely he was also taking Coke etc. Let's be honest it's not like it sets a precedent in the WWE.

 

[Whirlysplat]

Whirlysplat, by your same logic, Power Rangers and all its spin offs should be taken off tv.

Thin plot lines, bad acting, a massive child audience, and lots of violence. And you can't say that doesn't effect kids, 'cause it does. Makes them all hyper and ****. Should we ban that?



Maybe Benoit was just an *******.

Not really as one doesn't pretend to be real.

Its point is to entertain, and I don't see how the deaths that are related to it change its purpose. It's no less valid than any other form of entertainment/art out there. Going by your logic, Rock & Roll shouldn't be considered entertainment because of all of the drug related deaths that have taken place.

Um not really as you don't become a great musician through taking drugs, although some artists might claim it expanded there perceptions. You do become a better (meaning bigger) physical specimen to look at taking the gear, but that's not really anything to do with the WWE promoting violence either.

 

[jaguarr]

Steroids are not directly psychoactive but as I said earlier in the same way normal sex horomones affect mood, steroids do cause a number of things to happen to neurotransmitter concentration. Remember the first effect of using steroids is increased neuro muscular recruitment without restating longterm mood altering and transmitter dumping effects.

Yes, it appears an unusual juxtaposition, considering many of our previous chats doesn't it and yes it is

Oh, I already acknowledged that it can cause aggression and anger management issues when testosterone levels are peaked to abnormal levels. I'd still look at all the other truly psychoactive drugs he was taking before I'd point my finger at steroids. They may have contributed in some small way to the problem, but I'd hardly say that steroids were at the root or even a CAUSE of his issues.

Well it's likely he was also taking Coke etc. Let's be honest it's not like it sets a precedent in the WWE.

Most likely, yep. If he was using coke or another upper, though, that could definitely contribute to a psychotic break or episode.

jag

 

[Whirlysplat]

Oh, I already acknowledged that it can cause aggression and anger management issues when testosterone levels are peaked to abnormal levels. I'd still look at all the other truly psychoactive drugs he was taking before I'd point my finger at steroids. They may have contributed in some small way to the problem, but I'd hardly say that steroids were at the root or even a CAUSE of his issues.




Most likely, yep. If he was using coke or another upper, though, that could definitely contribute to a psychotic break or episode.

jag

We don't know if steroids were the root of his problems, we do know the damage they can cause and that he was taking them. I know of a very similar case where an individual was taking them and have experienced an altered personality through using them myself. The long term effects of steroids on the psyche in combination with other drugs and a life promoting violence, are more than likely to have combined to cause the break. Given Benoit's situation, I am guessing his toxicology report will point to a soup in his blood stream of psychologically altering substances.

Anyway goodnight from me mate.

 

[jaguarr]

We don't know if steroids were the root of them we do know the damage they can cause and I know of a very similar case where an individual was taking them and have experienced an altered personality through using them myself. The long term effects of steroids on the psyche in combination with other drugs and a life promoting violence are more than likely to have combined to cause the break. Given Benoit's situation I am guessing his toxicology report will point to a soup in his blood stream of psychologically altering substances.

My guess is that the anti-depressants he was on will be singled out as the primary driver, possibly along with whatever narcotics he was ingesting. He had to have a screw loose to start with for all this to go down, though. There are a lot of other guys who have taken the same nasty soup of chemicals as him and been just fine (well as fine as you can be when pro-wrestling is your chosen career).

jag

 

[Whirlysplat]

My guess is that the anti-depressants he was on will be singled out as the primary driver, possibly along with whatever narcotics he was ingesting. He had to have a screw loose to start with for all this to go down, though. There are a lot of other guys who have taken the same nasty soup of chemicals as him and been just fine (well as fine as you can be when pro-wrestling is your chosen career).

jag

As I said earlier all these things, steroids included tend to manifest and exaggerate a persons predispositions. Be they paranoia or violence. I think it's unlikely steroids will be singled out alone. Although I think it's high time the contibutory risk is acknowledged.

Goodnight mate again.

- Whirly

 

[jaguarr]

As I said earlier all these things, steroids included tend to manifest and exaggerate a persons predispositions. Be they paranoia or violence. I think it's unlikely steroids will be singled out alone. Although I think it's high time the contibutory risk is acknowledged.

Goodnight mate again.

- Whirly

I cannot acknowledge this post because you already went to bed as far as I'm concerned.

jag

 

[ArmyDragon92A]

Not really as one doesn't pretend to be real.

More kids are injured pretending to know martial arts than they are in back yard home based private wrestling federations...where they use the same techniques to avoid large amounts of injury as super industries do. Be serious man. For real.

 

[ArmyDragon92A]

Not really as one doesn't pretend to be real.



Um not really as you don't become a great musician through taking drugs, although some artists might claim it expanded there perceptions. You do become a better (meaning bigger) physical specimen to look at taking the gear, but that's not really anything to do with the WWE promoting violence either.

Also, I'd like to say that the UFC promotes gruesome competition. Breaking legs....neck injuries...smashing your competitions face into the mat until they're unrecognizable. I mean comparing such to the WWE is really not a responsible or reasonable argument.

 

[kainedamo]

More kids are injured pretending to know martial arts than they are in back yard home based private wrestling federations...where they use the same techniques to avoid large amounts of injury as super industries do. Be serious man. For real.

Exactly. Kids get hurt whether they're imitating Power Rangers or wrestlers. And a kid would have to be one damn impressionable kid to think "wow... acting like a beefed up maniac that insults everyone is cool" and for that to actually last into adulthood.

To be fair, I did see this one clip one YouTube of these carrying out a very ill thought out wrestling manouver from the top of a house through a table. They did sort of a tombstone/powerbomb thing off the top. They had friends at the bottom, one of them videoing it obviously. I could see that it was never gonna work. The house was too high, the table wouldn't be enough to break their fall sufficiantly. These idiots were gonna hurt each other. Aaaaaand, wham! Through the table they go. They wailed their heads off. I mean, they frickin' screamed in pain. I knew it was never gonna work. It was incredibly stupid. And one of their idiot friends can be heard saying "dude... dude are you ok??" LOL. Ring an ambulance, idiot.

 

[Shifty]

Directly as "Roid Rage" I agree, however who is to say Steroids, combined with prescription pills (especially overusage of them), stress, concussions, mental and physical fatigue, and other factors from over 15 years on the road could have manifested into a series of events that led Benoit down the tragic path he took this past weekend. Steroids should be on the media radar this week, but not judged in comparison to a bodybuilder or athlete or gym rat who use steroids. Benoit had many other factors that could have made the effects of steroids - either being on them or withdrawal from coming off of them - much worse.

Oh, WWE's claim that Benoit passed a steroid test in April says nothing about potential drugs in his system two months later. And placing Bibles by the sides of his slain wife and son also doesn't disqualify "roid rage." Instead, it could be a sign of regret for what he did in his fit of rage or compassion for his victims once he "came down."

paraphrased/plaguarised from the a Times article today

- Whirly

Yeah I don't understand why everyone thinks Benoit was in a rage for 2.5 days and the bibles confuse the hell out of people. He had an arguement with his wife, something set him off, he loses it and binds her and chokes her to death.

He calms down, realizes what he's done. Loses it emotionally, can't believe what he's done. His son has had a challenging life and apparently the two fought about how to take care of him. Now Daniel has lost his mom and will lose his father to prison. Who is going to raise this special needs child?

In his current messed up state he believes the only option is to smother his son, probably in his sleep. Benoit didn't shoot him with a gun or stab him or slit his throat or beat him to death with something heavy (same deal with his wife). His son is mentally ******ed and and has a developmental disability, so in Benoit's eyes its a mercy killing. Does not make it right at all.

Benoit isn't going to snap, kill his wife and then 24 hours later still be in a rage and kill his son for no reason. So his son is dead and he plans on killing himself.

Sends the texts messages to Chavo and a few others, so someone will eventually come but not right away and perhaps stop him from killing himself. Its very early in the morning so they're going to be asleep. He places the bibles because of the guilt that has eaten him up and then goes downstairs to his weight room. He mans up, sets up the machine and kills himself.

He had to be in some sort of burnt out-stressed out-paranoid rage to kill his wife. You don't wake up and decide, you know I feel like killing me wife later today. He unhinges, loses it and kills her. Feels guilt and now can't fathom the life his young son will live or Benoit himself living for the next 30 odd years in prison knowing why he was sent there. In his weakened state he does what he believes he must do. He was religious so he knows he's going to hell to be punished.

 

[Poetic Chaos]

Not really as one doesn't pretend to be real.

All TV dramas pretend to be real. That's what all acting based shows are, pretend. Everyone watching knows. It's just that some people realize that the risks and injuries these people sustain are VERY real. I doubt you'll find a fan anywhere that believe Mr. McMahon really died in a car explosion.

 

[Henry Hill]

Um not really as you don't become a great musician through taking drugs, although some artists might claim it expanded there perceptions. You do become a better (meaning bigger) physical specimen to look at taking the gear, but that's not really anything to do with the WWE promoting violence either.

Um, you should rely less on stereotypes and realize that these wrestlers still believe in body building. They don't get their bodies because of steroids alone. In fact, Triple H wrote a book on the subject a few years ago. And um, you missed the point because there are many people who have accused music of promoting violence in the past. You suggested that because of Chris Benoit and his actions, WWE should no longer be considered a form of entertainment. Should Rock & Roll no longer be considered a valid form of entertainment because Jim Gordon (Who wrote Layla with Eric Clapton) and went on to smash his mother's head in with a hammer? The same thing applies here. How about Kurt Cobain, who suffered from Heroin addiction and blew his brains out the back of his skull? Chris Benoit's actions and death was tragic but it doesn't change the fact that the WWE was and still is entertainment. That is the point of the WWE.