What next for the WWE, does it have a reason to exist?

[ObakeTora]

The toxicology report isn't going to tell you why he killed them. I'm not sure what you are waiting for. And I don't know how many times I have told you, there is NO LOGIC in killing your family. Never. Don't look for it to make sense. It never does, but it happens all the time. You people who want to say its different in this case are in DENIAL.



I'm not arguing that 'roid rage is what pushed Benoit over the edge and killed his family. That wasn't my point at all. My point was that all you wrestling fans out there that say you care so much for the wrestlers and the industry are now in a situation, driven by the media (I'll even compromise and say they are over exaggerating the steroids) where there is a chance the working conditions for wrestlers in the WWE and perhaps other companies will get much better but all you fans do is ***** and whine about the media making a big deal about it.

Well, wait a second, doesn't that go against your so called nature of caring so much about the wrestlers? If you had any sense you would realize that even if the media continuously drags McMahon through the mud with the steroids issue, maybe undeservedly at times, isn't it all worth it for the changes it can bring about? Or are you still going to act childish and complain about the big bad media bashing wrestling? You cannot trust the WWE to change things on their own just the same way you can't trust the MLB to change their problems on their own. It won't work that way.

No,

I understand thats the nature of the business. But I understand that those people who knowingly took steroids also must be held accounted for. You have to be responsible for your own actions, and thats not giving Mcmahon any pity. He should wake up and realize what he's doing to impressionable people.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

@Patent- Just like your misinformed when it comes to the concept and fundamentals of basketball, you're misinformed on this investigation along with the overall perspective surrounding this tragedy.

You're right, there is no logic in killing your family. The logic comes in with the possible flaws in the investigation. There's too much of a gap in terms of what drove him to do these horrific and violent acts. From my perspective it doesn't make sense for someone to kill their wife one day, kill their son the next day, and then kill himself the next day. Hence why many investigators have stated it wouldn't surprise them if a third party was involved.

And you mean to tell me that when they searched the house they found nothing? Hence why I believe there's more to this story than they're telling.

Toxicology reports will not state WHY he did it, but if they find something in his system it can add some sense to this story. Whether or not it was steroids along with a combination of mental trauma is completely unknown at this time. Which is why I'm waiting for some facts to be released along with the toxicology report.

Yes, as wrestling fans we do care about the wrestlers, although in the end it's their decision to continue their careers or not continue them. Fans have expressed concern over Kurt Angle constantly pushing himself through injuries, drugs, and so forth. But that's all we can do is hope that a change happens for the better.

People need to stop being lazy with reading and comprehending, and realize that a tragedy has happened regardless of what drugs were taken.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

I'm not saying Vince is a saint and I'm not saying professional wrestling doesn't deserve some questioning. But to say Vince is responsible for the deaths of any wrestler is stupid and unfair.

Look, I don't like Vince McMahon myself. I feel he can come off as arrogant, rude, and insensitive when it comes to certain subjects. However Eddie Guerrero(RIP), Sean Waltman, and a host of others stated that Vince has been known to help the wrestlers through their rehab.

But in the end Vince cannot and should not be there for them all the time. At some point you have to stand on your own two feet, and if you **** up, then you **** up plain and simple. A lot of wrestlers develop bad habits away from the ring and sometimes it leads to tragic happenings.

 

[Jerry!]

*sighs* My point wasn't with the investigation of the murders, you can keep hoping theres a third party involved, I don't care. I don't care if drugs were the cause of it or he just went bat ****, its all the same to me, he is in the same category as everyone else who kills their family the way I see it.

My point was with wrestling fans and the situation WWE is in right now. I never said Vince was responsible for anything, he may have a contributing part, I don't know. My point is wrestling fans don't realize that what is happening right now may result in better treatment and a better working environment for the wrestlers because the media is grilling McMahon as they are. Whether it is deserved or not (PLEASE READ THAT OVER), WHETHER HE DESERVES IT OR NOT, it can bring about change, but all wrestling fans seem to be doing is complaining and whining about the media making it a big deal. Yeah they do it for ratings, big surprise, but if it can bring about something being finally done about it, does it matter? NO. It doesn't. In general, wrestling will always be look down upon, thats just the way it is, that won't change. But what could change is the working environment for WWE wrestlers and maybe wrestlers from other organizations as well. And I think that outweighs the fact that McMahon is getting an ass kicking in the media. Or maybe it doesn't, I don't know. I don't "understand" what it means to be a wrestling fan.

LOL! I also can't believe the guy who had a nervous breakdown and said David Stern fixes the Finals tells me I am misinformed about basketball. World Champion San Antonio Spurs just has a sound to it that makes you feel all excited on the inside! Just like Tim Duncan! Oh boy, I , as well as the millions watching basketball, just CAN'T WAIT to see the Spurs try and repeat. Oh wait scratch that, they WILL repeat! THANKS DAVID!

 

[LastSunrise1981]

*sighs* My point wasn't with the investigation of the murders, you can keep hoping theres a third party involved, I don't care. I don't care if drugs were the cause of it or he just went bat ****, its all the same to me, he is in the same category as everyone else who kills their family the way I see it.

My point was with wrestling fans and the situation WWE is in right now. I never said Vince was responsible for anything, he may have a contributing part, I don't know. My point is wrestling fans don't realize that what is happening right now may result in better treatment and a better working environment for the wrestlers because the media is grilling McMahon as they are. Whether it is deserved or not (PLEASE READ THAT OVER), WHETHER HE DESERVES IT OR NOT, it can bring about change, but all wrestling fans seem to be doing is complaining and whining about the media making it a big deal. Yeah they do it for ratings, big surprise, but if it can bring about something being finally done about it, does it matter? NO. It doesn't. In general, wrestling will always be look down upon, thats just the way it is, that won't change. But what could change is the working environment for WWE wrestlers and maybe wrestlers from other organizations as well. And I think that outweighs the fact that McMahon is getting an ass kicking in the media. Or maybe it doesn't, I don't know. I don't "understand" what it means to be a wrestling fan.

LOL! I also can't believe the guy who had a nervous breakdown and said David Stern fixes the Finals tells me I am misinformed about basketball. World Champion San Antonio Spurs just has a sound to it that makes you feel all excited on the inside! Just like Tim Duncan! Oh boy, I , as well as the millions watching basketball, just CAN'T WAIT to see the Spurs try and repeat. Oh wait scratch that, they WILL repeat! THANKS DAVID!

Meh, could careless about the situation involving the Spurs. They won, good for them. I'm more happy for Michael Finley as he finally has a ring and he deserves it.

Bottom line I don't believe Stern fixes games. But then again, you said the same thing when Golden State lost to Dallas in Game 5. So I guess I shouldn't put too much stock into what you say then eh?

Look nothing is going to change in the WWE. If the big time steroid scandal in the 80's and 90's didn't make Vince change then, why would he change now?

 

[Jerry!]

What dimension where you living in when I said anything about Stern fixing games?

The only way the WWE changes is if the government interferes and actually does something. And why would you not be supportive of it anyway? Its better than not doing anything and the same **** keep happening.

 

[Lantern Venom]

What dimension where you living in when I said anything about Stern fixing games?

The only way the WWE changes is if the government interferes and actually does something. And why would you not be supportive of it anyway? Its better than not doing anything and the same **** keep happening.

WWE isn't the be-all and end-all of wrestling. If the government intervenes, they'll need to address many serious problems ( steroids only being one ) that have plagued the industry. Currently, there are 30 + active wrestling organizations in the US alone. They could all use some regulation.

 

[Jerry!]

I would say it is, but thats different debate altogether. I'm just saying "WWE" because thats where it would begin with.

 

[Lantern Venom]

I would say it is, but thats different debate altogether. I'm just saying "WWE" because thats where it would begin with.

The problem with that is that WWE is the major leagues, so to speak. Most of the talent has been in the wrestling industry for 5,10, maybe even 15 years on the indy scene before they are given a shot at WWE. They endure tough conditions for little pay, develop addictions and sometimes are badly trained, which is a serious problem for a physical performer. If WWE is singled out and the business not changed on the whole, very little will happen in the way of premature deaths.

 

[Whirlysplat]

I'm not making any apologies for anyone, McMahon included. But you can institute change without crucifying someone.

Tell that to Christitians around the world.

The problem with that is that WWE is the major leagues, so to speak. Most of the talent has been in the wrestling industry for 5,10, maybe even 15 years on the indy scene before they are given a shot at WWE. They endure tough conditions for little pay, develop addictions and sometimes are badly trained, which is a serious problem for a physical performer. If WWE is singled out and the business not changed on the whole, very little will happen in the way of premature deaths.

Not completely true now is it.

I'm not saying Vince is a saint and I'm not saying professional wrestling doesn't deserve some questioning. But to say Vince is responsible for the deaths of any wrestler is stupid and unfair.



Look, I don't like Vince McMahon myself. I feel he can come off as arrogant, rude, and insensitive when it comes to certain subjects. However Eddie Guerrero(RIP), Sean Waltman, and a host of others stated that Vince has been known to help the wrestlers through their rehab.



But in the end Vince cannot and should not be there for them all the time. At some point you have to stand on your own two feet, and if you **** up, then you **** up plain and simple. A lot of wrestlers develop bad habits away from the ring and sometimes it leads to tragic happenings.

Vince Mcmahon is Mother Theresa? Allegedly, according to some wrestlers he used to supply the drugs.

 

[punishermax]

WWE isn't the be-all and end-all of wrestling. If the government intervenes, they'll need to address many serious problems ( steroids only being one ) that have plagued the industry. Currently, there are 30 + active wrestling organizations in the US alone. They could all use some regulation.

There are a hell of a lot more than that. In Wisconsin alone, there are like 7. But states that are huge on pro wrestling, like New York, Illinois, California, Georgia, Florida, and others, all have double digit promotions.

 

[BlackLantern]

There are a hell of a lot more than that. In Wisconsin alone, there are like 7. But states that are huge on pro wrestling, like New York, Illinois, California, Georgia, Florida, and others, all have double digit promotions.

Connecticut has 3 or 4 if I recall correctly. Also the Corporate HQ of the WWE

 

[punishermax]

Tell that to Christitians around the world.



Not completely true now is it.



Vince Mcmahon is Mother Theresa? Allegedly, according to some wrestlers he used to supply the drugs.

How is what he said not true? More indy wrestlers, that nobody has heard of, die because of the stress they put on themselves, than wrestlers in the big leagues.

 

[punishermax]

Connecticut has 3 or 4 if I recall correctly. Also the Corporate HQ of the WWE

There are definitely more than 30. I know during the last boom period, there was something like 200 indy promotions in the US.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

Tell that to Christitians around the world.



Not completely true now is it.



Vince Mcmahon is Mother Theresa? Allegedly, according to some wrestlers he used to supply the drugs.

Yes, you are correct. During the 80's and 90's steroid hysteria it was rumored that he did supply steroids to the wrestlers. Whether or not it's true or not is completely conjecture on my part.

Apparently it's one of the main reasons why Hogan and Vince still have a problem with each other today. I'm not saying he's Mother Theresa or anything, but when Eddie Guerrero was alive and suffering from drug addiction he said Vince paid for his rehab when he wasn't employed by the WWE.

Sean Waltman recently said that Vince paid for his rehab through the recommendation of Triple H. Again it's all speculation on whether it's true or not, you know? I'm just saying that Vince can't hold their hands and be there for them 24/7. A person has to stand on their own feet in life while not expecting handouts or sympathy. Everyone has to take responsibility for their own actions and if they mess up, then they mess up

 

[Whirlysplat]

How is what he said not true? More indy wrestlers, that nobody has heard of, die because of the stress they put on themselves, than wrestlers in the big leagues.

You have figures to back this up and a suitable definition of stress?

No? Thought not!

Yes, you are correct. During the 80's and 90's steroid hysteria it was rumored that he did supply steroids to the wrestlers. Whether or not it's true or not is completely conjecture on my part.

Apparently it's one of the main reasons why Hogan and Vince still have a problem with each other today. I'm not saying he's Mother Theresa or anything, but when Eddie Guerrero was alive and suffering from drug addiction he said Vince paid for his rehab when he wasn't employed by the WWE.

Sean Waltman recently said that Vince paid for his rehab through the recommendation of Triple H. Again it's all speculation on whether it's true or not, you know? I'm just saying that Vince can't hold their hands and be there for them 24/7. A person has to stand on their own feet in life while not expecting handouts or sympathy. Everyone has to take responsibility for their own actions and if they mess up, then they mess up

You are obviously a fan, i'm assuming your avvy, "rated R Superstar" has some wrestling meaning?

I'm sure Vince doesn't hold their hands much! Ever heard the phrases "brushing things under the carpet", "damage control" and "a little to little, a little to late"?

Vince = reminds me of a snake oil salesman. Who promoted the image of steroid bodybuilder so that young wrestlers feel the only way to get noticed is through stacking? The words "causality" and "casualty" also spring to mind respectively.

 

[BlackLantern]

So if we see Vince McMahon strung up and blamed for all these ills..do you think it will instantly fix things???

 

[Lantern Venom]

.
Not completely true now is it.

.

I think it's very true. What sense would it make for Congress to take a stance of "We'll continue to let wrestlers use steriods for years and years before they get to WWE. We also won't worry about them getting properly trained so they can just go on hurting themselves and others. And no need to worry about other illegal drugs and rampant alcoholism ( Congress could improve on this in their own lives ) and painkiller abuse. But don't worry, after they have done that for a decade or more, we'll test them for 'roids when they are WWE employees." Yeah, that will work.

 

[Whirlysplat]

So if we see Vince McMahon strung up and blamed for all these ills..do you think it will instantly fix things???

Obviously

 

[Whirlysplat]

I think it's very true. What sense would it make for Congress to take a stance of "We'll continue to let wrestlers use steriods for years and years before they get to WWE. We also won't worry about them getting properly trained so they can just go on hurting themselves and others. And no need to worry about other illegal drugs and rampant alcoholism ( Congress could improve on this in their own lives ) and painkiller abuse. But don't worry, after they have done that for a decade or more, we'll test them for 'roids when they are WWE employees." Yeah, that will work.

By removing the steroid users from public sight. The aspiring "entertainers" will perhaps no longer feel that they need to look like a freak. Simple really.

 

[BlackLantern]

Obviously

not it's not. I'm a big believer in the "devil you know" philosophy. I would hope this whole mess brings about some change. Maybe a month off in December and January or more stringent testing or something. I don't know the answer

 

[Whirlysplat]

not it's not. I'm a big believer in the "devil you know" philosophy. I would hope this whole mess brings about some change. Maybe a month off in December and January or more stringent testing or something. I don't know the answer

Whoosh and over the head it goes.

 

[jaguarr]

jag

 

[BlackLantern]

Whoosh and over the head it goes.

From my end, it looks like you just want to shut the whole thing down, ban professional wrestling because you don't believe it to be a valid form of entertainment, or whatever your reasoning might be.

From a fan's perspective, things do need to change. Wrestlers are dying way too fast and way too young. I bet if this was happening in one of the major sports we would not be having this discussion. Professional Wrestling or sports entertainment has always been looked down upon by general society and this horrid tragedy just gives that side more ammunition with which to demonize it some more

 

[Whirlysplat]

From my end, it looks like you just want to shut the whole thing down, ban professional wrestling because you don't believe it to be a valid form of entertainment, or whatever your reasoning might be.

No i'm asking what it's point is.

From a fan's perspective, things do need to change. Wrestlers are dying way too fast and way too young. I bet if this was happening in one of the major sports we would not be having this discussion.

probably not.

Professional Wrestling or sports entertainment has always been looked down upon by general society

Well yes it has

this horrid tragedy just gives that side more ammunition with which to demonize it some more

Looked down on and demonised are two different things but yeah, i think doing both is fair and yes it was a horrid tragedy and yes all the awful things around the WWE do give people more ammo!

jag