What next for the WWE, does it have a reason to exist?

amazingfantasy15 said:
Is watching men assaulting women etc. on TV, in comic books, video games and movies a good thing for kids?
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The difference is they are not often a kids hero doing it. In wrestling the line between "hero" and villian is blurred. Many kids "heroes" assault women in wrestling. In films with the exception of Connery as bond 40 years ago and John Wayne movies fifty years ago. Both of which were made in a different time. Regular misogyny from heoroic figures even in the past was rare. Not so for the likes of Edge etc.
 
as a fairly regular fan....I'm not recalling any of the "good guys" assaulting the ladies. Actually the WWE has tried to cut that portion of it down. A few years ago there was a run on the ladies getting "assaulted" and such. Recently the only thing I can recall is Batista picking up Queen Sharmell and carrying her away from the ring so she wouldn't "interfere" in the match.....
 
Whirlysplat said:
The difference is they are not often a kids hero doing it. In wrestling the line between "hero" and villian is blurred. Many kids "heroes" assault women in wrestling. In films with the exception of Connery as bond 40 years ago and John Wayne movies fifty years ago. Both of which were made in a different time. Regular misogyny from heoroic figures even in the past was rare. Not so for the likes of Edge etc.
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So Batman doesn't assault Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn? In fighting games you can't have a male character vs. a female character? Claire didn't get shot by Ted the Radioactive Man in Heroes? These are off the top of my head from three of the four catagories I mentioned, I'm sure if I looked into it I could come up with more.
 
BlackLantern said:
as a fairly regular fan....I'm not recalling any of the "good guys" assaulting the ladies. Actually the WWE has tried to cut that portion of it down. A few years ago there was a run on the ladies getting "assaulted" and such. Recently the only thing I can recall is Batista picking up Queen Sharmell and carrying her away from the ring so she wouldn't "interfere" in the match.....
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In the WWE who is a "good guy"? As they can be a good guy one week and a bad guy the next. Male on female assault is still common as are the revenge assaults and ludicrous "gang honour" themes.
 
amazingfantasy15 said:
So Batman doesn't assault Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn? In fighting games you can't have a male character vs. a female character? Claire didn't get shot by Ted the Radioactive Man in Heroes? These are off the top of my head from three of the four catagories I mentioned, I'm sure if I looked into it I could come up with more.
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Different kind of "assault" and no poison ivy is a normal female victim character in the WWE sense, she is a "Supervillian" with Superpowers. Batman is just a man with some gadgets. Ted wasn't exactly a "hero" and heroes clearly isn't aimed at kids in the same way the simplistic nature of the WWE is. He certainly didn't pull her hair and call her a ***** or make her kiss his feet etc. In the WWE misogenistic style. Therir's a difference between the exploitation of violence towards women/assault/treating women as objects etc. and the need for conflict between a woman character who could fight back as part of the plot.

Whereas your average WWE peice of male sexual fantasy/fluff is simply a damsel to be assaulted by some guy on steroids. Misogeny is rampant in the WWE.
 
Whirlysplat said:
Different kind of "assault" and no poison ivy is a normal female victim character in the WWE sense, she is a "Supervillian" with Superpowers. Batman is just a man with some gadgets. Ted wasn't exactly a "hero" and heroes clearly isn't aimed at kids in the same way the simplistic nature of the WWE is. He certainly didn't pull her hair and call her a ***** or make her kiss his feet etc. In the WWE misogenistic style. Therir's a difference between the exploitation of violence towards women/assault/treating women as objects etc. and the need for conflict between a woman character who could fight back as part of the plot.

Whereas your average WWE peice of male sexual fantasy/fluff is simply a damsel to be assaulted by some guy on steroids. Misogeny is rampant in the WWE.
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Do you have a specific example? WWE airs their shows on cable tv and being someone who watches it fairly regularly, I think I would remember if a male WWE performer called a female performer something derogatory. Actually Stephanie McMahon, Vince's daughter, is portrayed as a character who uses her power unjustly over everyone...male and female alike. Just for your information Linda McMahon is actually the President of the WWE....the company is based here in Connecticut and has been honored numerous times for charity donations (they are one of the biggest donators to the Make-A-Wish foundation) and also travel to Iraq every year to entertain the troops serving over there. Here is the other side to your argument....this is all scripted entertainment, so any of the performers know what their "part" is for that evening (male or female) If any performer objects to what their "part" calls for, they are free to seek employment elsewhere. It is a job, just like any other.
 
So we need to condemen every film maker for having domestic violence in a movie and while we are at it let's go after beer commercials for portraying women in a derogatory manner. People need to start realizing that THEY are
responsible for ensuring what children watch and anything they are watching...GOD forbid parents actually pay attention to their kids for once.

I work a full time job...pay my bills....do my laundry and I am a wrestling fan. Am I less of a person for being so? Am I going to go out and smack women around and do steroids because I watch wrestling....No I am not....
 
BlackLantern said:
So we need to condemen every film maker for having domestic violence in a movie and while we are at it let's go after beer commercials for portraying women in a derogatory manner. People need to start realizing that THEY are
responsible for ensuring what children watch and anything they are watching...GOD forbid parents actually pay attention to their kids for once.

I work a full time job...pay my bills....do my laundry and I am a wrestling fan. Am I less of a person for being so? Am I going to go out and smack women around and do steroids because I watch wrestling....No I am not....
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No need to condem film makers it is a different form of entertainment (one apparently Whirlysplat likes so it's ok).

You're walking a dangerous line though BlackLantern, watching the evil wrestling, one day it's gonna make you snap do some steroids, bully someone smaller than you, hit them from behind with a chair, then smack a girl for good measure and finally do a bunch of drugs and kill yourself. That's what happens to every wrestling fan eventually, I'm sure you've heard about these cases, they pop up at least once a week in the news, usually more, it's much more prevalant than those teen drinking and driving car crashes you hear about. Wrestling fan bullying, misogynistic, 'roid rampages/O.D. suicides are a serious problem and Vince must be held accountable.
 
I was just thinking the other day about how I could demean some women and whack somebody with a chair. Whirly's made some decent points, but he gets a little too wrapped up in the argument.

Do I think that drugs are a problem in wrestling? Yes...but it can be fixed.

Do I think that the performers spend too much time on the road? Yes....I'm all for an off season of a month or 2.

Is it something kids should watch....Only if they are supervised. There is a reason that WWE programming is on at night and has a rating of TV-14.

As for marketing, I don't see the amount of WWE merchandising commericals that I saw about 10 years ago....They used to advertise everywhere. Now they basically just advertise during their own programming.
 
BlackLantern said:
As for marketing, I don't see the amount of WWE merchandising commericals that I saw about 10 years ago....They used to advertise everywhere. Now they basically just advertise during their own programming.
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That's because the audience for their products are the kids watching the show.

amazingfantasy15 said:
No need to condem film makers it is a different form of entertainment (one apparently Whirlysplat likes so it's ok).

You're walking a dangerous line though BlackLantern, watching the evil wrestling, one day it's gonna make you snap do some steroids, bully someone smaller than you, hit them from behind with a chair, then smack a girl for good measure and finally do a bunch of drugs and kill yourself. That's what happens to every wrestling fan eventually, I'm sure you've heard about these cases, they pop up at least once a week in the news, usually more, it's much more prevalant than those teen drinking and driving car crashes you hear about. Wrestling fan bullying, misogynistic, 'roid rampages/O.D. suicides are a serious problem and Vince must be held accountable.
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Yes he must.
 
the wrestler crush was found dead at 43 a week ago
 
Whirlysplat said:
That's because the audience for their products are the kids watching the show.



Yes he must.
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and like I said above....children should be supervised if they are watching....and considering the deaths of pro-wrestlers recently...barely half of them were ever employed by the WWE....the most recent (Bryan Adams) had been employed by WCW for the latter part of his career. I think you are trying to lay a problem at one person's feet and that isn't the case. You have a ton of independent promotions and TNA (which is owned by Panda Energy) who have no discernible drug screeing program. WWE does have a program, it's not perfect, but they have suspended performers who fail any screening....as evidenced by the most recent 30 days suspension of Jeff Hardy....and the recent 60 day suspension of Randy Orton....
 
Orton got suspended?
 
It was a while back.....he got suspended for wellness and dress code issues.
 
[
bullets said:
the wrestler crush was found dead at 43 a week ago
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Indeed he was ex WWE.

BlackLantern said:
and like I said above....children should be supervised if they are watching....and considering the deaths of pro-wrestlers recently...barely half of them were ever employed by the WWE....the most recent (Bryan Adams) had been employed by WCW for the latter part of his career. I think you are trying to lay a problem at one person's feet and that isn't the case. You have a ton of independent promotions and TNA (which is owned by Panda Energy) who have no discernible drug screeing program. WWE does have a program, it's not perfect, but they have suspended performers who fail any screening....as evidenced by the most recent 30 days suspension of Jeff Hardy....and the recent 60 day suspension of Randy Orton....
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That one person created the "style" of "adult" themes the other promotions follow.

Spider-Fan930 said:
Orton got suspended?
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Randy Orton is an "adult themed" WWE wrestler, right?

BlackLantern said:
It was a while back.....he got suspended for wellness and dress code issues.
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What do you take wellness issues to mean? :)
 
Actually as far as adult themes....the now defunct WCW and ECW promotions first began with what was considered "edgy" programming. In 1995...when WCW was running live shows every Monday night....they strove to be different from the then kid-themed WWE (with characters like Doink the Clown and Adam Bomb) both WCW and ECW were the first have matches and programming invloving blood, a bunch of guys beating on one guy and various other adult themes....so get your timeline and facts straight. Wellness meaning he was subjected to a random drug test and the results were that he had something in his system that should not have been there. Randy Orton is what you would consider a "bad guy" wrestler. The WWE was actually the last promotion to introduce "adult themes" into pro-wrestling behind WCW (run by Eric Bischoff and owned by Ted Turner) and ECW (owned by Paul Heyman)
 
BlackLantern said:
Actually as far as adult themes....the now defunct WCW and ECW promotions first began with what was considered "edgy" programming. In 1995...when WCW was running live shows every Monday night....they strove to be different from the then kid-themed WWE (with characters like Doink the Clown and Adam Bomb) both WCW and ECW were the first have matches and programming invloving blood, a bunch of guys beating on one guy and various other adult themes....so get your timeline and facts straight. Wellness meaning he was subjected to a random drug test and the results were that he had something in his system that should not have been there. Randy Orton is what you would consider a "bad guy" wrestler.
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Was Val Venis at WWE at the time of the WCW. Where was Rick Rude first. etc. WCW and ECW are both part of the WWE now am I right? What was Degeneration X?
 
Whirlysplat said:
Was Val Venis at WWE at the time of the WCW. Where was Rick Rude first. etc. WCW and ECW are both part of the WWE now am I right? What was Degeneration X?
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Rick Rude was about 6 or 7 years before Val Venis. the character of Rick Rude had actually been carried over from another wrestling promotion. Both ECW and WCW went out of business in 2001.....the ECW library and merchandising was purchased by WWE....as was WCW. Degeneration X was created as a response to the WCW created nWo.
 
the nWo was introduced in 1996....Degeneration X was introduced late 1997
 
BlackLantern said:
Rick Rude was about 6 or 7 years before Val Venis. the character of Rick Rude had actually been carried over from another wrestling promotion. Both ECW and WCW went out of business in 2001.....the ECW library and merchandising was purchased by WWE....as was WCW. Degeneration X was created as a response to the WCW created nWo.
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Wasn't Rick Rude at the WWF before the WCW? So what was Degeneration X? Was it aimed at kids? What was it's catch phrase? Did it have any kind of salute? Was Val Venis around at the WWF when the WCW was running it's Monday night stuff? What's Val Venis finishing move called? Does it have a double meaning? What was Val supposed to have been?
 
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