What next for the WWE, does it have a reason to exist?

[amazingfantasy15]

Dwarves have novelty value, like little mexicans in masks. These people will never be the stars that the freaks are. Be they freaks due to an abnormal height or a pituitary problem, like the "Giants" or a steroid problem like Hogan, triple H etc. Even HBK who may or may not use, was not a draw on the Austin, HHH scale.

Mankind was a huge draw in the late '90s and you can't say he was on 'roids.

 

[Whirlysplat]

Now you're disregarding their characters. Austin could have been 4 feet tall and probably still would have been a mega-star. He had a beer gut and hated authority; that was his thing. I wouldn't even consider Austin a "Strong" man.

HBK, Edge, Rey Mysterio, and Ric Flair have all been super-popular and they're "small" guys.

No argument than HHH, Warrior and Hogan were made popular by their size. But look at how somebody like The Rock(who has an physique one can attain w/o performance enhancing drugs) can be so popular.

I think the Rock probably geared up. Please HBK and the others mentioned will always be in the shadow of the freaks of their resoective times. Edge is also known to have been on gear. I think it's unlikely Flair ever took performance enhancers, but, don't tell me Flair was as big as Hogan.

 

[CorpusBlack]

You may be a fan of athleticism in pro wrestlers, but, the main fanbase is kids in my experience. I don't know how old you are so I will make no comment. The kids like Vince McMahon want freaks. They want larger than life tough guys, they do not want Shane Helms type wrestlers. They want Khali.

I'm 29.

Personally, I think kids are stupid. Anyway, you are right and they are probably the largest demographic. It doesn't mean that their viewpoints won't change if the industry changes. Kids follow trends. They like the freaks because WWE shoves them down their throats and markets them as unstoppable monsters with bobblehead dolls.

I've always been a big fan of the athletic side of it. I'm more a fan of the Japanese and Mexican federations. There's more showmanship, more of a sport aspect and they hit a lot harder.

 

[Whirlysplat]

Mankind was a huge draw in the late '90s and you can't say he was on 'roids.

Mankind was popular because he did extremely dangerous stunts. So much so that Foley quit wrestling for a while because it upset his children.

Mankind may not have been on drugs. The character was certainly a freak! Which is a shame because much as I look upon Foley's characters with disdain, he is an intelligent and articulate man and believe it or not, a good writer.

 

[Whirlysplat]

I'm 29.

Personally, I think kids are stupid. Anyway, you are right and they are probably the largest demographic. It doesn't mean that their viewpoints won't change if the industry changes. Kids follow trends. They like the freaks because WWE shoves them down their throats and markets them as unstoppable monsters with bobblehead dolls.

I've always been a big fan of the athletic side of it. I'm more a fan of the Japanese and Mexican federations. There's more showmanship, more of a sport aspect and they hit a lot harder.

I have never disputed some wrestlers are athletic. I just don't see the point of watching poorly choreagraphed, false fights. I'd rather watch a movie. I also enjoy real sports where I cannot usually predict the outcome. This is without the foolish slow motion fight style oftem employed. I love real combat sports, because, I see the point of men testing their skills against other skilled men.

 

[amazingfantasy15]

I think the Rock probably geared up. Please HBK and the others mentioned will always be in the shadow of the freaks of their resoective times. Edge is also known to have been on gear. I think it's unlikely Flair ever took performance enhancers, but, don't tell me Flair was as big as Hogan.

See you're showing your ignorance on the subject because HBK and Flair were huge in their times, HBK and Bret Hart were the show for WWF during their transition from the outlandish gimmick era to the attitude era.

 

[Whirlysplat]

See you're showing your ignorance on the subject because HBK and Flair were huge in their times, HBK and Bret Hart were the show for WWF during their transition from the outlandish gimmick era to the attitude era.

I don't dispute them being huge, but, HBK was not the draw the WWE wanted so when they saw Austins popularity, they pushed him.

Flair was not enough for the WCW to compete, neither was Sting hence the NWO. This didn't prove enough against Austin. Who was perhaps the most morally ambiguos character ever created.

 

[CorpusBlack]

See you're showing your ignorance on the subject because HBK and Flair were huge in their times, HBK and Bret Hart were the show for WWF during their transition from the outlandish gimmick era to the attitude era.

Unfortunately, HBK and Bret Hart's pushes were born out of the fact that Vince, for a short time, was trying to get away from the freakish image the company had after the infamous steroids scandal in the early 90's. In the end, he went back to his old formula. Not to take anything away from HBK and Hart, as I think they still would've shined on their own eventually. They just may have been stuck in the upper mid-card level selling themselves short to put over the Hogans and Sids of their day.

 

[CorpusBlack]

I don't dispute them being huge, but, HBK was not the draw the WWE wanted so when they saw Austins popularity, they pushed him.

The fans really dictated Austin's push. Plus, Shawn was severely injured and thus retired for 4 1/2 years.

 

[Whirlysplat]

Unfortunately, HBK and Bret Hart's pushes were born out of the fact that Vince, for a short time, was trying to get away from the freakish image the company had after the infamous steroids scandal in the early 90's. In the end, he went back to his old formula. Not to take anything away from HBK and Hart, as I think they still would've shined on their own eventually. They just may have been stuck in the upper mid-card level selling themselves short to put over the Hogans and Sids of their day.

You see, I don't get your problem with my posts. You seem to agree with many of my criticisms of the WWE.

 

[CorpusBlack]

You see, I don't get your problem with my posts. You seem to agree with many of my criticisms of the WWE.

You should read them better then.

 

[Whirlysplat]

The fans really dictated Austin's push. Plus, Shawn was severely injured and thus retired for 4 1/2 years.

I don't diagree that Austins popularity marked his card. I do believe though it showed the smaller guy was not what they were after. Both HHH and Austin are very big guys.

 

[Whirlysplat]

You should read them better then.

I have.

 

[CorpusBlack]

I don't diagree that Austins popularity marked his card. I do believe though it showed the smaller guy was not what they were after. Both HHH and Austin are very big guys.

Austin was never freakishly big. He was an average sized wrestler with a great gimmick and mic skills. I see guys his size everyday.

 

[Whirlysplat]

Austin was never freakishly big. He was an average sized wrestler with a great gimmick and mic skills. I see guys his size everyday.

He had almost 20 inch biceps. At 240 pounds, that's big. If you check out my members picture. I was slightly bigger on gear. My biceps were only about 19.

 

[amazingfantasy15]

I don't diagree that Austins popularity marked his card. I do believe though it showed the smaller guy was not what they were after. Both HHH and Austin are very big guys.

Triple H got the push after HBK was injured, HBK was getting the push with Austin up until then. The Attitude era kicked off in response to the NWO and the audience being older and more anti-authority at the time. Stone Cold, The Rock and D-X are perfect examples of this. If you look at each of the characters pushes, they got really big (popularity wise) when they started fueding with Vince.

 

[Whirlysplat]

Triple H got the push after HBK was injured, HBK was getting the push with Austin up until then. The Attitude era kicked off in response to the NWO and the audience being older and more anti-authority at the time. Stone Cold, The Rock and D-X are perfect examples of this. If you look at each of the characters pushes, they got really big (popularity wise) when they started fueding with Vince.

All true. It also shows larger more imposing "thugs", were what the WWE needed to compete with the steroid boys of the NWO.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

I think the Rock probably geared up. Please HBK and the others mentioned will always be in the shadow of the freaks of their resoective times. Edge is also known to have been on gear. I think it's unlikely Flair ever took performance enhancers, but, don't tell me Flair was as big as Hogan.

HBK and Flair are easily in the top 10 most popular/recognizable wrestlers EVER.

 

[Whirlysplat]

HBK and Flair are easily in the top 10 most popular/recognizable wrestlers EVER.

They have, yes, through longevity near the top of the business. The number one draws are probably.

in no order:
Hogan
Rock
Austin
Undertaker
Warrior
Cena
Angle
Hart
Sting
Lesnar
Batista



No Flair or HBK, hell, Sting was always above Flair for the WCW.

 

[CorpusBlack]

They have, yes, through longevity near the top of the business. The number one draws are probably.

in no order:
Hogan
Rock
Austin
Undertaker
Warrior
Cena
Angle
Hart
Sting
Lesnar
Batista



No Flair or HBK, hell, Sting was always above Flair for the WCW.

Sting was only above Flair from 96-98. HBK is more popular than Lesnar and Batista ever were or will be.

For someone who hates wrestling so much, you sure pay a lot of attention to it.

 

[Whirlysplat]

Sting was only above Flair from 96-98. HBK is more popular than Lesnar and Batista ever were or will be.

For someone who hates wrestling so much, you sure pay a lot of attention to it.

You say this about HBK but, I think Lesnar was huge. Sting was always above Flair. I know a bit about pro wrestling. People shouldn't criticise something without knowing what it is they are complaining about in my opinion.

 

[amazingfantasy15]

Sting was only above Flair from 96-98. HBK is more popular than Lesnar and Batista ever were or will be.

For someone who hates wrestling so much, you sure pay a lot of attention to it.

Obviously not because half the time his "facts" are wrong. It's actually kind of funny, Sting's most popular period was when he didn't actually wrestle, just stalked people from the rafters.

 

[Whirlysplat]

Obviously not because half the time his "facts" are wrong. It's actually kind of funny, Sting's most popular period was when he didn't actually wrestle, just stalked people from the rafters.

You really do get uptight, relax, I am criticising wrestling, not you.

 

[CorpusBlack]

Obviously not because half the time his "facts" are wrong. It's actually kind of funny, Sting's most popular period was when he didn't actually wrestle, just stalked people from the rafters.

It was the nWo that made Sting. People's hatred for Hogan at the time pushed Sting over the top. So what does WCW do? After a year and a half of pushing Sting to the top, they produce a sh-tty match with a sh-tty finish and bury him on TV in the following weeks: leaving him Nash's lackey in the Wolfpack. Good move Bischoff.

 

[Whirlysplat]

Have a goodnight.