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The Avengers What sort of MARKETING does THE AVENGERS need to bring in the GA that are not fans?

Bana doesn't open a movie by his name alone. He's not a big star.

Bana isn't an A-lister.

Downey is an A-lister. Bana is not.

Bana wasn't THE lead guy in Troy. It was a big cast, but the main star was really Brad Pitt.

Star Trek, he was the villain, not the main star and not as big of a role as Chris Pine or Zachary Quinto.

People didn't go to see Star Trek specifically for Eric Bana.
 
Most people who saw Star Trek probably didn't see it because of Eric Bana. That said, I do think his name is more known to the GA than Mark Ruffalo's, but I think that's more because of the two actors' choices in films than because Bana is a better actor than Ruffalo, or vice versa.
 
If you want to evaluate the impact of an actor on a movie's appeal and BO gross just think of how well the movie would have been recieved if that actor was replaced by some other.
 
Bana doesn't open a movie by his name alone. He's not a big star.

Bana isn't an A-lister.

Downey is an A-lister. Bana is not.

Bana wasn't THE lead guy in Troy. It was a big cast, but the main star was really Brad Pitt.

Star Trek, he was the villain, not the main star and not as big of a role as Chris Pine or Zachary Quinto.

People didn't go to see Star Trek specifically for Eric Bana.

And nowhere did I say "Bana is an A-lister; Bana opens movies by his name alone; Bana is the reason people go see movies."

I *said*: Eric Bana is a bigger star than Mark Ruffalo. Eric Bana's name would've garnered more marquee value than Mark Ruffalo. Eric Bana has been the lead in two major action movies, and the primary antagonist and/or co-star in several other major action movies. Mark Ruffalo, veteran of rom-coms and art-house, has been in *zero* major action movies.

Gawd, people. I didn't say Eric Bana would carry The Avengers; I said that he would've added more $$$ to the marquee as Banner than Mark Ruffalo. The boxofficemojo numbers *prove* that.

Anyway, I'm tired of arguing with hard-headed people who fail to acknowledge box-office numbers as a legitimate, *objective* assessment of an actor's bankability.

And LOL at some people's view of Troy as a "Brad Pitt vehicle." Troy is about Achilles vs. Hector, as it *always* was and always *will* be. Eric Bana received equal billing with Pitt for that one.
 
I know I shouldn't feed into this, but I just can't help myself.

Gawd, people. I didn't say Eric Bana would carry The Avengers; I said that he would've added more $$$ to the marquee as Banner than Mark Ruffalo. The boxofficemojo numbers *prove* that.

Anyway, I'm tired of arguing with hard-headed people who fail to acknowledge box-office numbers as a legitimate, *objective* assessment of an actor's bankability.

Because Lord knows The Time Traveler's Wife, Hanna, The Other Boleyn Girl, and Lucky You were box office phenomenons in their own right. Look, I'm not hating on Eric Bana at all. I'm just trying to figure out the advantage of having his name in the credits over someone like Ruffalo. According to your logic, Bana has been in more "big" movies like Black Hawk Down, Troy, and Star Trek, which in turn makes him a bigger star...movies whose core audiences consist primarily of the same people that would probably go see The Avengers regardless.

Couldn't it be argued that because Ruffalo has been in MORE movies than Bana, and has rec'd more award nominations (including an Oscar) mean that he's the more well known?

I still don't think you should underestimate any "rom-com/indie" following he may have. Those are people who probably wouldn't normally go to an "event" movie like The Avengers. Will it prove true in this case? Who knows? I don't think anyone can truly say The Avengers will be any more successful with Ruffalo than with Bana....it's just not that kind of movie.

PLUS, and this is a minor nitpick, Bana is nearly 6'3" tall. Banner is not supposed to be taller than Cap and almost as tall as Thor. I like the fact that Ruffalo's around 5'9"....closer to the comics Banner.
 
I know I shouldn't feed into this, but I just can't help myself.



Because Lord knows The Time Traveler's Wife, Hanna, The Other Boleyn Girl, and Lucky You were box office phenomenons in their own right. Look, I'm not hating on Eric Bana at all. I'm just trying to figure out the advantage of having his name in the credits over someone like Ruffalo. According to your logic, Bana has been in more "big" movies like Black Hawk Down, Troy, and Star Trek, which in turn makes him a bigger star...movies whose core audiences consist primarily of the same people that would probably go see The Avengers regardless.

Couldn't it be argued that because Ruffalo has been in MORE movies than Bana, and has rec'd more award nominations (including an Oscar) mean that he's the more well known?

I still don't think you should underestimate any "rom-com/indie" following he may have. Those are people who probably wouldn't normally go to an "event" movie like The Avengers. Will it prove true in this case? Who knows? I don't think anyone can truly say The Avengers will be any more successful with Ruffalo than with Bana....it's just not that kind of movie.

PLUS, and this is a minor nitpick, Bana is nearly 6'3" tall. Banner is not supposed to be taller than Cap and almost as tall as Thor. I like the fact that Ruffalo's around 5'9"....closer to the comics Banner.

I think the rom-com/indie fanbase will prove to actually be the undoing of Ruffalo as Banner, and lead to --- god, I hate to say it --- yet another actor playing Bruce Banner by the time Avengers 2 and/or TIH 2 rolls around.

Here's the thing: Ruffalo's fanbase wouldn't be caught *dead* supporting a movie like Avengers. It's corporate megabudget brainless action fodder, in their eyes, and worse --- it's in the superhero genre, aimed squarely at (ewwwww, gross) comic-book nerds. I strongly suspect that Ruffalo's female and intellectualista supporters have been doing some long, hard soul-searching over his decision.

And on the opposite front, Ruffalo runs into resistance from the comic-book nerd fanbase. Ruffalo has not been warmly embraced at SDCC or in the fold in general; it remains to be seen whether his actual portrayal in the movie will be applauded, grudgingly accepted, or downright condemned.

It's troubling, to me, that Ruffalo's role has been very minimized so far in the teaser and his visibility has been almost nonexistent on the location shoots. It also doesn't help that Ruffalo looks (characteristically) like a metrosexual liberal arts professor in his one scene on the bridge in the teaser trailer. That's *not* how fans of Bruce Banner generally want to see him portrayed. Maybe it's part of the anger-management zen training Ed Norton was seen embracing at the end of TIH that's supposed to make Banner a kinder, gentler Hulk (and, box office wise, that's supposed to appeal to the female and art-house crowds Ruffalo generally brings with him); but face it:

...the "real" Bruce Banner from the comics, the TV show(s), and the movies is a scrappy fighter in his own right; a survivor who has just as much street smarts as he does science smarts (born of a hand-to-mouth existence eked out of waking up dazed and disoriented and disarrayed in the back alleys of backwater slums, in the labs of mad scientists and the military bases of equally mad generals, in deep wilderness and even on distant planets surrounded by hostile lifeforms). Bana, Norton and even Bill Bixby have all done great jobs at showing Banner as the harried loner genius living his life on the run; I'm not sure if that's what Whedon is going for by bringing in Ruffalo in a nice jacket that's eminently suitable for teaching Women's Studies at Yale.
 
I'm with you on his choice of apparel. I found the suit jacket a little odd myself, but I've learned not to judge a book by its cover, especially when it comes to comic book movies. Otherwise, that nice, bright blue CA suit with the zipper and the stripes on the shoulder and the helmet with the cowl.......eh, forget it. :word:

I think they probably are going more for the Bixby type Banner. The fact that Ruffalo and Whedon have both mentioned him in past interviews could certainly corroborate that. I certainly don't have a problem with that, as Bixby is still my favorite Hulk actor of the previous three. I would love to see Ruffalo just totally own the role and make people say things like "best portrayal yet" and "Edward who?". I guess I'm just for the underdog.

Never forget all the doubt surrounding past casting choices like RDJ, Heath Ledger, Michael Keaton, Chris Evans, etc. I think Mark will rise to the challenge. Now, if the movie comes out and he just stinks up the place, then you can break out the torches and pitchforks and start threads like "Who should be the NEXT Banner?" :wow:
 
This is an interesting debate between Cherokeesam and warcam. I have to say that I cannot say who is right here.

I think I agree with Cherokeesam that inherently Bana is a bigger name than Ruffalo.

However I was thinking the same thing as warsam in that Ruffalo might actually bring in some people who would not have seen THE AVENGERS otherwise.
 
This is an interesting debate between Cherokeesam and warcam. I have to say that I cannot say who is right here.

I think I agree with Cherokeesam that inherently Bana is a bigger name than Ruffalo.

However I was thinking the same thing as warsam in that Ruffalo might actually bring in some people who would not have seen THE AVENGERS otherwise.

Eric Bana was a complete unknown before he took the role of Dr. Banner in Ang Lee's Hulk, so it is interesting to see people here discuss him like he's a big star in Hollywood. Yes, Bana has been a leading man in many movies, and well-known enough to have his name put front-and-top of the advertisement for the movies he's in. But those are mostly smaller movies (like Another Boleyn Girl, Hanna, Time Traveler's Wife). Hulk was perceived mostly as a disappointment, Troy was mainly a Brad Pitt movie, and in Star Trek, the franchise was bigger than any of the actors attached to it. I don't think there's this huge disparity of fame and box office prowess between Bana and Raffalo that it is imperative for Marvel to recast Banner with the first actor who portrayed him on the big screen. Hey, Edward Norton is a bigger star than either one of them, and he didn't really help TIH to be a bigger BO hit than Hulk.
 
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Assuming, of course, that Bana would've even wanted to play the role again. When you get right down to it, it's really a moot point. Ruffalo's got the gig. Now, all we can hope for is he nails the role of Banner and the VFX team does their part in creating the most lifelike Hulk imaginable.
 
Also, as warcam said, Bana is 6'3", and can't be taller than Cap and nearly as tall as Thor. Bana looks fairly tough as well. He could easily have been another superhero in his own right, rather than being the scrawny scientist who transforms into someone else when he can't handle the heat. Bana looks like he can take on most people in a fight without ever needing to turn into the Hulk.
 
Assuming, of course, that Bana would've even wanted to play the role again. When you get right down to it, it's really a moot point. Ruffalo's got the gig. Now, all we can hope for is he nails the role of Banner and the VFX team does their part in creating the most lifelike Hulk imaginable.

Agreed on all counts.

But just for the record: I nowhere was suggesting that Marvel *recast* Bana as Banner. My only contention was that the movie, in general, could use a shot of star power to boost the marketing, and that Ruffalo wasn't as big a box office draw as past Banners Norton and Bana. And also for the record: I could draw up a quick list of at least 15-20 stars I would've preferred that Marvel give the Banner role to instead of Ruffalo.

Time to wait and see the first bits and pieces of Ruffalo in action and with dialogue to see how it turns out. Banner and Hulk, to me, remain one of the last great big variables in this movie, and we still seem to be a long way off from seeing the first footage of Ruffalo and CGI Hulk onscreen.
 
I would still like to see some cameos from the likes of Natalie Portman, Tim Roth, Liv Tyler, Kat Dennings, William Hurt etc. Yes, they've already resolved some of the storylines with The Consultant, but it would've been cool to have had a cameo of stars like these epic movies of decades past.
 
I think the GA care more about the portrayal of Hulk rather than Banner. If Hulk is mostly mute again than he'll just be a plot device rather than a box office draw.
 
I think at this point, the general audience are now fans. The general audience have been enjoying these films, they've made good money. I've gone to a most of these films with friends who don't read comics and know next to nothing about the world of Marvel, and they're super excited to see Avengers. So I don't think Marvel has to do anything special to reel in the GA except for show them this is going to be a fun BIG movie with the characters they've been enjoying over the years coming together in one film.
 
I think the GA care more about the portrayal of Hulk rather than Banner. If Hulk is mostly mute again than he'll just be a plot device rather than a box office draw.

I personally think the GA won't really care one way or the other about the Hulk in this movie. They most likely will be persuaded to see this movie because of the star factor Robert Downey Jr. and Samuel L. Jackson add to it. While the other actors have become pretty well known, they are still relatively unknown to non-fans whereas Robert Downey Jr. and Samuel L. Jackson have a bit meatier acting resume.
 
No question that RDJ and Jackson are big stars but I don't see that as a huge draw for a movie like this. They are popular actors but action is what is going to determine what kind of legs Avengers has. Marvel can't get away with only 3 five minute action scenes and hope the audience finds the cast charming.

That formula won't fly with the amount of hype surrounding this movie.
 
I find that good writing and good acting trumps nonstop action personally. But again I am the one who when I was 10 or 11 years old was able to sit through a heavy biopic like Gandhi that even had an intermission and not get bored. In fact it's still one of my favorite movies of all time.
 
No question that RDJ and Jackson are big stars but I don't see that as a huge draw for a movie like this. They are popular actors but action is what is going to determine what kind of legs Avengers has. Marvel can't get away with only 3 five minute action scenes and hope the audience finds the cast charming.

That formula won't fly with the amount of hype surrounding this movie.


I AGREE 100%!!! This is absolutely true! This movie NEEDS to deliver on the action spectacle in a way that blows the minds of the regular moviegoer!
 
I AGREE 100%!!! This is absolutely true! This movie NEEDS to deliver on the action spectacle in a way that blows the minds of the regular moviegoer!

If the Fly on the Wall spy vids are any indication, there will be plenty of action in this movie. But also considering it's a Joss Whedon movie we should expect some good character driven moments as well.
 
I have no worries about the quality of acting. Its been fine in the previous Marvel movies.
 
I think a good teaser, to bring in people that don't really get why the avengers is going to be so huge, would be pretty simple...Show each main character separately (but not from there solo movies) getting ready to battle. Then show them all back to back to back surrounded by this alien force. Fighting in all directions. Looking like they are barely holding on. Of course do not show the heros pushing back the aliens. Show them like they are all about to die. And finish with a black screen and some bad *** quote from stark/fury with the avengers logo. If I hadn't seen the previous tie ins. I would be like holy **** these guys have a real threat and not all of them will make it. Not perfect but it would be a nice teaser.
 
Just curious, I haven't been keeping up with the avenger movie news lately, but has there been any talk of a trailer being released in the near future?
 
Well, I've been paying just about as much attention as you to the news of this movie because I want to be blissfully unaware of the details so I can't help you out there.
 
I think a good teaser, to bring in people that don't really get why the avengers is going to be so huge, would be pretty simple...Show each main character separately (but not from there solo movies) getting ready to battle. Then show them all back to back to back surrounded by this alien force. Fighting in all directions. Looking like they are barely holding on. Of course do not show the heros pushing back the aliens. Show them like they are all about to die. And finish with a black screen and some bad *** quote from stark/fury with the avengers logo. If I hadn't seen the previous tie ins. I would be like holy **** these guys have a real threat and not all of them will make it. Not perfect but it would be a nice teaser.

I think the best teaser for this movie would be just one screen shot saying "You know you're going to see this movie when it comes out so we didn't bother to put together a teaser trailer for it."
 

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