When did Comic books and Superheroes become "Cool"?

[Sentry2k2]

So, I was at my fiancee's house waiting around to go out for her birthday and for her friends to come over. When they did, I found myself sitting in a room with 7 very hot twenty-something females. Because I do not care about the latest hair products or whatever they all talk about, I started reading my latest issue of Wizard that I bought. one of the girls noticed the cover (it was the one with Iron Man and Hulk) and we ended up getting into a 15-20 minute conversation about superheroes and how cool Iron man was and how they really wanted to see the Dark knight. This got me thinking, these ladies are the least likely candidates to talk about superheroes with, yet they had a respectable amount of knowledge about the characters. I know for a fact they don't read comic books but I was still amazed. When did knowing about superheroes go from being a "Nerdy" thing to mainstream knowledge?

 

[Kitsune]

So, I was at my fiancee's house waiting around to go out for her birthday and for her friends to come over. When they did, I found myself sitting in a room with 7 very hot twenty-something females. Because I do not care about the latest hair products or whatever they all talk about, I started reading my latest issue of Wizard that I bought. one of the girls noticed the cover (it was the one with Iron Man and Hulk) and we ended up getting into a 15-20 minute conversation about superheroes and how cool Iron man was and how they really wanted to see the Dark knight. This got me thinking, these ladies are the least likely candidates to talk about superheroes with, yet they had a respectable amount of knowledge about the characters. I know for a fact they don't read comic books but I was still amazed. When did knowing about superheroes go from being a "Nerdy" thing to mainstream knowledge?

The Mary Jane/Peter Parker romance in the first Spider-Man didn't hurt.

 

[chiefchirpa]

Movie exposed characters are trendy.

Ask them about Moon Knight, Deadpool or Stingray, they'd say "Whaa...?"

 

[Kitsune]

Movie exposed characters are trendy.

Ask them about Moon Knight, Deadpool or Stingray, they'd say "Whaa...?"

You forgot Razoback

He's 2Cool4School

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

The Mary Jane/Peter Parker romance in the first Spider-Man didn't hurt.

Bingo.

Actually, i'd go back even further to Burton's first Batman movie. That was when i began to noticed the "Kewl Crowd" starting to take interest.

 

[November Rain]

i believe comics have always been cool, however comic collectors have made them not.

putting them in the mainstream light where the average person can relate to them shows there have the potential appeal of the entire market.

however the original fans are too protective of their products. So be it.

 

[Anubis]

Well, there in lies the catch-22. You want the industry to be recognized a bit more by mainstream. Increase sales. Make more money for the industry which will allow say, the big two to keep good books that don't sell as well around longer than the pitiful five to six issues they might get now.

On the other hand, with the mainstream comes pandering to the faceless masses. I mean, it's already done now, but imagine if they got a million more readers to please? Things will get stupider and stupider. Events will come far more often. The 90's all over again. Could the industry survive another crash? I don't know. Right now it's still a niche thing. The movies do well, people dig the characters, but they aren't reading the comics. Which is okay I guess. I like things the way it is now.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

Well, there in lies the catch-22. You want the industry to be recognized a bit more by mainstream. Increase sales. Make more money for the industry which will allow say, the big two to keep good books that don't sell as well around longer than the pitiful five to six issues they might get now.

On the other hand, with the mainstream comes pandering to the faceless masses. I mean, it's already done now, but imagine if they got a million more readers to please? Things will get stupider and stupider. Events will come far more often. The 90's all over again. Could the industry survive another crash? I don't know. Right now it's still a niche thing. The movies do well, people dig the characters, but they aren't reading the comics. Which is okay I guess. I like things the way it is now.

Me too for the most part, but i'd still feel better if readership was up a few hundred thousand or so...

 

[Lex Luthor]

Snowball effect. Due to major film studios making blockbuster superhero films each and every year, people in general find themselves discovering, relating, and enjoying the characters much more than at any time during the 1980's, or 1990's. And for obvious reasons.

Back in the 1970's, Superman: The Movie, if anything, showed audiences that a film based upon a comic book character did not have to be camp. The material could go beyond that, and could actually achieve being not only quite memorable, but an enjoyable experience for the general audiences. Then came 1989's Batman, which was just a phenomenon that sparked a "Bat-Mania" which had not been seen since the 1960's. Due in large part, IMO, to the fact that the film was decidedly different from what a good number of the people at the time were expecting. And obviously, it was most welcomed. The Batman films pretty much ruled the rest of the 1990's (with Marvel finally getting a hit with Blade), and in 2000, Marvel hit it big once again with Singer's X-Men. Which in my estimation, got the ball rolling. But didnt quite put this Superhero film renaissance over the stratosphere until 2002's Spider-Man. Which much like 1989's Batman, was a worldwide sensation that broke all expectations and sparked a craze that is still going strong today.

 

[Anubis]

God help us when the bottom falls out though.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I agree with the general consensus about the movies catapulting characters into the mainstream. Same thing happened with the cartoons and the older TV shows. Most comic book character recognition comes from non-comic media. Everyone over 30 knows who the Hulk is because of the Bill Bixby/Lou Ferrigno TV series, not because of any comics. My cousin knows who Gambit is because of the '90s X-Men cartoon. In another decade, teenagers will know who Spider-Man is because of the cartoon and the movies they loved so much as kids.

And the comic audience will likely remain right around the same size it is right now. Why? Simple: people don't read anymore. There are plenty of statistics showing that, with all the new media outlets available to us, books (and, by extension, comics) are becoming less and less popular. I'm not gonna go all Chicken Little and claim that the comic industry will die due to lack of readers in another generation or two, but I certainly don't think it'll grow much more than it already has (since the crash of the '90s, I mean), either.

 

[Anubis]

Yeah, I agree.

 

[moraldeficiency]

I fear the day comics are truely accepted as being cool and mainstream. When after years of whipping the horse far past death the creators and editors have gone so far out of their way to accomodate mainstream interests and tastes that the core of what made them enjoyable is so far gone you can't even remember what it used to look like. Anyone think Rocky Balboa was as good as the original? That's what happens when a medium is considered cool enough for every company, film producer, product marketer and PR firm is done with an industry. Now you might say, sure, but there's plenty of good movies still coming out, and that's true. But then you look at the bad to good movie ratio and see all the crap that's just blatantly pandering to an audience of third graders and look at how hard it is to get something original out there and you see just what a crappy state that industry is in. I like comics as uncool, I like creators able to take risks because it's not a multimillion dollar possible mistake every issue. I don't mind being a bit of an outcast for liking comics, makes you a little more interesting IMO when you don't follow american idol or know exactely what angelina jolie had for breakfast that morning and you indulge in something "different". Currently comic concepts might be cool but comics themselves aren't as mentioned above. I sincerely hope it stays that wway.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

The bad-to-good comic ratio is pretty high too, dude.

 

[moraldeficiency]

The bad-to-good comic ratio is pretty high too, dude.

Exactely, so why would you want to worsen that by taking mass audiences and catering to them. At least now some of the bad comics are just creators taking risks that don't pan out right.

Though when I think about you statement for a moment currently, and despite some very notable exceptions (ASM I'm looking at you) this current time has some of the better series and comics I've ever read so I really can't complain too much.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Eh, even if it got worse as a whole, there'd still be something for everyone. Look at TV: it's one of the absolute broadest-reaching media today, and even though it's chock-full of reality TV and other trash, there are still your Dexters and your Pushing Daisies and your Burn Notices. If comics went the same way, there would still be good series. You might just have to look a little harder to find them sometimes.

 

[Gilpesh]

As long as they don't mess up the Mignola-verse. I'm good.

 

[Anubis]

Plus they might stick around longer, even though not that many people will be reading it.

 

[Paloogin]

I just like the idea of you going into a room, seeing that there's no one that you'd like to talk to, and whipping out an issue of Wizard. Was it sociable? Nope. Was it a damn efficient way of utilising one's time? You're damn right it was.

Kudos to you sir.

 

[DoomJester]

I fear the day comics are truely accepted as being cool and mainstream. When after years of whipping the horse far past death the creators and editors have gone so far out of their way to accomodate mainstream interests and tastes that the core of what made them enjoyable is so far gone you can't even remember what it used to look like.

I have to respectfully disagree with you! I agree with you in the sense that I want comics to remain good, and enjoyable, but I think you've fused some issues. Being mainstream or cool doesn't necessarily mean the destruction of comic quality... why, just to be difficult, I could argue it may entice more widly recognized and more expensive talent into the industry just because there is a larger market... I think Laurell K. Hamilton's working with a Marvel imprint probably has something to do with that. Dark Tower's HC success is going strong because it has a market beyond just comic fans.

But in any case, comics is a market that includes a variety of tastes-- mainstream to the l33t. So, if you want to sell well, it makes sense to match mainstream tastes with a mainstream market size, and that does little to affect the l33t taste and their books. It's just diversification of risk, which is very safe.

Anyone think Rocky Balboa was as good as the original? That's what happens when a medium is considered cool enough for every company, film producer, product marketer and PR firm is done with an industry. Now you might say, sure, but there's plenty of good movies still coming out, and that's true. But then you look at the bad to good movie ratio and see all the crap that's just blatantly pandering to an audience of third graders and look at how hard it is to get something original out there and you see just what a crappy state that industry is in.

Sorry, there are a bunch of bad comics already, to this, all I have to say is I'm concerned about absolute levels in this case-- do I care how many crappy comics there are? Well, if the market is oversaturated and it causes a crash. But I don't really care about that. I care only about this-- how many books I want to read. Speaking marginally, if we 3 to 1 on bad comics and then 4 to 1, you'd say this is a failure, but I would be fine with it-- if that one extra comic is another Astonishing X-men or Ultimates 1-2! This happened with the videogame industry. Tons of crappy games flooded the market because PS One was so easy to develop for, in contrast to the Saturn. Naturally, PS had a ton of horrible games. But it also had FF7, MGS, Tekken... you get my point. Saturn was the "hardcore" gamers system, with l33t stuff by Treasure... guess which lasted longer! I think we should all be concerned about good comics, knowing that bad comics, really bad ones will be done away with! The good thing about a reasonably established market is that the fat gets cut. And why can't third-graders have their movies? When you were in third-grade I bet you wanted something G or PG rated. I know I did. And I thank my mom for taking me to see them!

I like comics as uncool, I like creators able to take risks because it's not a multimillion dollar possible mistake every issue. I don't mind being a bit of an outcast for liking comics, makes you a little more interesting IMO when you don't follow american idol or know exactely what angelina jolie had for breakfast that morning and you indulge in something "different". Currently comic concepts might be cool but comics themselves aren't as mentioned above. I sincerely hope it stays that wway.

Comics uncool or cool? Largely uncool! But this could be a critique of the fans (I'm just saying what I think the consensus is from people I know!). Can creators take risks? Well yes, there isn't any reason to believe that comics cost of production will rise. Unlike videogames, risks are still acceptable... since production values aren't really the issue. Making comics mainstream diversifies the market which is an inherently risk-diminishing strategy. All it does is increase sale outlets and reach different fan-bases, there is no reason to think that Batman will be any worse, or that Vertigo would be afraid to make any more edgy books.

 

[Xofenroht]

Well, I remember when comics became more popular over here in Detroit with my group of friends. We're a nice little community of artists: writers, actors, musicians, painters, etc. and a group of 3 of us decided to get together and make a comic. Since I was the one more in the know, I was introducing them to the industry, we'd talk about this stuff at parties or when we were out to eat somewhere and before you knew it, there were some new fans.

I think comics became cool when they began being used as required texts in college courses, like after Sandman #19 won the World Fantasy Award for best short story. Not to mention writers like Frank Miller or even titles like "Pride" and Spiegelman's "Maus". I was watching something on t.v. the other day (maybe Comic Book Superheroes Unmasked) where Stan "The Man" mentioned that the comics were widely accepted by the college community.

Anyway, people like comics with more mature concepts than what they were seeing on television from the cartoons. Most of the complaints in the past were that they seemed too juvenile and childish and every fan on this board knows when that started to change.

 

[DoomJester]

Yeah xofenroht, I took a really great class on comics-- all types, in college. A lot of kids who didn't know comics were very impressed. But we read a lot if lit criticism too.

Also, Sentry, congrats on the fiancé! I missed that bit earlier.

 

[Themanofbat]

Comics are cool?

 

[Darthphere]

To answer the question: They're not.

 

[Blader5489]

Comic books aren't cool, but superheroes are and that's entirely because of the movies.