Who else misses the way kids films/entertainment used to be?

[Kyle]

Sadly the only family movie that really stood out to me of late for being beyond excellent was 'How To Train Your Dragon 2,' because it reminded me of what kids movies/entertainment used to be like.

I'm unsure of when exactly it happened, sometime in the late 90s kids and family movies started putting on the kid gloves coddling many generations. I have a younger sister, so I definitely felt a change in the atmosphere. Gone were our serious animated films targeted towards kids and families that were serious the whole way through. Gone were our gateway horror films and shows that opened up a whole new world of scares galore. Sure, many of these films gave us nightmares! Who can forget the steam monster from Fern Gully? Traveling into the future while remaining a kid to see that all your friends are adults now and your younger brother is a lot older than you are, basically waking up to the same nightmare Captain America woke up to just with more of a scary focus on it - that your whole world moved on without you. Land Before Time. The Brave Little Toaster. The Goonies, to a degree. Something Wicked This Way Comes. Are You Afraid Of The Dark? And the list goes on and on.

One of the death bells that rung and I knew when it happened because even at 12 it felt seriously off - Disney's 'Dinosaur.' Good film, don't get me wrong. But it always felt weird that there was no real sense of trauma to it considering what happened. Might be odd to hear for those who are much younger. But, what happened to our serious approach to a similar apocalyptic scenario in 'The Land Before Time?' Where had that gone? It was basically the exact same story, just one dealt with it in a more serious and adult and real manner. And it's been that way ever since.

Keep in mind, yeah I do know Pixar films are serious at some points and they have great characterizations. But this is just one side of the equation. There used to be more of a balance. The other side feels like it sadly vanished. Like at some point someone just said "kids can't handle this anymore, let's cut it out." That still irks me.

I'm also unsure how many teens and kids today know what family entertainment used to be like and how serious it could be and was throughout.

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So, I'm just wondering for those who know and similarly grew up with PG films that didn't wear kid gloves - do you miss these films/shows as well?

To those who were born, I'd say maybe after 1996, what is your take on these films not being as prevalent and rare to very rare in comparison today? Would you have wanted more serious kid/family films that dealt with serious subject matters while growing up? (For example 'The Neverending Story' is one long psychoanalysis of the grieving process in a fantasy LOTR type world and setting).

Have there been any other animated films as serious as 'How To Train Your Dragon 2' (throughout, not just some scenes) that match up that I'm just not remembering?

 

[Octoberist]

Most kids movies now are animated films. Because of that, some studios see them just as vessels for parents paying their $$$ for the box office, and nothing else. Hell, the Oscars don't even take animated films seriously.

I would say 96 is accurate though.

 

[Silvermoth]

I reckon kids films deal with serious issues still. Harry Potter for example was about the rise of white supremacy. The incredible was about mid life crises. And so on...

 

[Octoberist]

White Supremacy? What?

 

[smallville fan]

Big Hero 6 says Hi.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

I agree completely and I think that's why I am such a nostalgia nut for those films, because there is just nowhere I can get that from in modern cinema.

Well, actually I can think of one film that meets the criteria for me - Where the Wild Things Are.

And that got criticized for being too serious

 

[redhawk23]

White Supremacy? What?

Maybe not white supremacy specifically and it's toned down in the movies but the books deal heavily with prejudice and even straight up slavery.

 

[Victarion]

I feel old. I was watching land before time in preschool.

 

[Quasimod0]

Just watched Inside Out again yesterday for like the 6th time. That's an incredibly deep, emotional film, with tons of stuff that will go right over kids heads, but is still enjoyable for them.

 

[Kyle]

Big Hero 6 says Hi.

That film was a lot lighter than the films of old. That was Pixar level with having a serious subject but not making it the focus, just an aspect for a couple of scenes. Compare how that dealt with death to a film like 'Casper' for example. 'Casper' dealt with a grieving family, a distant dad who basically accidentally drinks himself to death in an act that was a lot like suicide (he likes and wants to be dead), and the seriousness of a kid dying at a very early age (Casper) who in the film is coming to terms with being dead. While I enjoyed 'Big Hero 6,' a lot of older family films dealt with the grieving process more realistically, head on, and consistently.

There was always the balance years ago - you had your extremely family friendly films that had a couple of emotional moments in them (which still exist), and then you had your serious family films that had almost a classic/original Grimms Brothers type vibe to them which were basically the gateway films to 'Ordinary People,' 'Requiem For A Dream,' and other... bleak adult dramas, but for kids. While others served as gateways to horror shows/films like graduating from 'Goosebumps' and 'Are You Afraid of the Dark' into 'The X-Files' for instance. You had your very kid friendly family films which could include emotional moments, but the other side of the equation of largely Grimms Brother type fairy tales seems to be what has largely went away.

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Harry Potter is a tough one for me to place in a timeline, since that was in a way all of our childhood (I think?) while starting in mine (basically the same age as Rupert Grint).


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'Where The Wild Things Are' is definitely another one! I loved that film.

I'm hoping Pete's Dragon is one, it could be because of what they're dealing with and with what the tone right now seems to be.

 

[redhawk23]

I think Krampus will find its audience over time on home video and cable.

 

[redhawk23]

That film was a lot lighter than the films of old. That was Pixar level with having a serious subject but not making it the focus, just an aspect for a couple of scenes. Compare how that dealt with death to a film like 'Casper' for example. 'Casper' dealt with a grieving family, a distant dad who basically accidentally drinks himself to death in an act that was a lot like suicide (he likes and wants to be dead), and the seriousness of a kid dying at a very early age (Casper) who in the film is coming to terms with being dead. While I enjoyed 'Big Hero 6,' a lot of older family films dealt with the grieving process more realistically, head on, and consistently.

There was always the balance years ago - you had your extremely family friendly films that had a couple of emotional moments in them (which still exist), and then you had your serious family films that had almost a classic/original Grimms Brothers type vibe to them which were basically the gateway films to 'Ordinary People,' 'Requiem For A Dream,' and other... bleak adult dramas, but for kids. While others served as gateways to horror shows/films like graduating from 'Goosebumps' and 'Are You Afraid of the Dark' into 'The X-Files' for instance. You had your very kid friendly family films which could include emotional moments, but the other side of the equation of largely Grimms Brother type fairy tales seems to be what has largely went away.

-------

Harry Potter is a tough one for me to place in a timeline, since that was in a way all of our childhood (I think?) while starting in mine (basically the same age as Rupert Grint).


-------

'Where The Wild Things Are' is definitely another one! I loved that film.

I'm hoping Pete's Dragon is one, it could be because of what they're dealing with and with what the tone right now seems to be.

People keep decrying a certain type of film that apparently isn't made any more but aren't citing what films you're referring to. What are these Grimm's like his?

An outlet for this kind of thing g exists in a lot of kids TV. Adventure time and now more so Steven Universe aren't afraid to delve into some pretty heavy emotional brats and Steven universe even has had extended story arcs about rape metaphors. Gravity falls had a lot of pretty well actually disturbing imagery including the head in my avatar.

 

[redhawk23]

That film was a lot lighter than the films of old. That was Pixar level with having a serious subject but not making it the focus, just an aspect for a couple of scenes. Compare how that dealt with death to a film like 'Casper' for example. 'Casper' dealt with a grieving family, a distant dad who basically accidentally drinks himself to death in an act that was a lot like suicide (he likes and wants to be dead), and the seriousness of a kid dying at a very early age (Casper) who in the film is coming to terms with being dead. While I enjoyed 'Big Hero 6,' a lot of older family films dealt with the grieving process more realistically, head on, and consistently.

There was always the balance years ago - you had your extremely family friendly films that had a couple of emotional moments in them (which still exist), and then you had your serious family films that had almost a classic/original Grimms Brothers type vibe to them which were basically the gateway films to 'Ordinary People,' 'Requiem For A Dream,' and other... bleak adult dramas, but for kids. While others served as gateways to horror shows/films like graduating from 'Goosebumps' and 'Are You Afraid of the Dark' into 'The X-Files' for instance. You had your very kid friendly family films which could include emotional moments, but the other side of the equation of largely Grimms Brother type fairy tales seems to be what has largely went away.

-------

Harry Potter is a tough one for me to place in a timeline, since that was in a way all of our childhood (I think?) while starting in mine (basically the same age as Rupert Grint).


-------

'Where The Wild Things Are' is definitely another one! I loved that film.

I'm hoping Pete's Dragon is one, it could be because of what they're dealing with and with what the tone right now seems to be.

Coraline and Paranormal o much further than the likes of Casper.

 

[Kyle]

By order of date, not seriousness:

The Watcher In The Woods
Labyrinth
The Dark Crystal
The Land Before Time
An American Tail
The Goonies
Flight of the Navigator
Legend
Something Wicked This Way Comes
The Secret of NIMH
The NeverEnding Story
Return to Oz
The Brave Little Toaster
The Addams Family
Hook (not that serious, but compare it - from 'Hook' to 'Peter Pan' to 'Pan')
The Witches
Casper
The Santa Clause (again, not serious - but the sequels didn't only diminish in quality, they got progressively and noticeably less serious with each passing film)
Ferngully: The Last Rainforest
Goosebumps
Are You Afraid Of The Dark?

(Haunting Hour was great, then it got cancelled - which I'm unsure if that was due to popularity or parental complaints (that there was that highly noticeable parental guidance opening segment does stand out though as --- where was that for Goosebumps and Are You Afraid of the Dark? Plus in a lot of interviews for the Goosebumps film (which is great in a Jumanji sort of way) the older cast and crew spoke out about their hesitation concerning if parents would allow their kids to see it).

Among others.

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When comparing those to Casper. While Coraline had a Tim Burtonesque design, in terms of subject matter alone I don't recall it dealing with any weighty subject matter - I will say outside of subject matter and into design scheme it is more horror driven (I'd like it to a newer Nightmare Before Christmas). I loved Paranorman, but I'd liken it more to a more mature and better quality Casper:A Spirited New Beginning in that it was first and foremost a supernatural comedy film with a great equality message.

I think Krampus will find its audience over time on home video and cable.

See, I was so "deranged" lol from the 80s and 90s that I'd call that a family film and take my future kids to it. I think if that was made years ago it would have been PG-13. The R is baffling to me. It was basically Jumanji and Gremlins. From your inclusion of it here, I'm guessing you'd agree that the R is odd for it?

 

[redhawk23]

By order of date, not seriousness:

The Watcher In The Woods
Labyrinth
The Dark Crystal
The Land Before Time
An American Tail
The Goonies
Flight of the Navigator
Legend
Something Wicked This Way Comes
The Secret of NIMH
The NeverEnding Story
Return to Oz
The Brave Little Toaster
The Addams Family
Hook (not that serious, but compare it - from 'Hook' to 'Peter Pan' to 'Pan')
The Witches
Casper
The Santa Clause (again, not serious - but the sequels didn't only diminish in quality, they got progressively and noticeably less serious with each passing film)
Ferngully: The Last Rainforest
Goosebumps
Are You Afraid Of The Dark?

Among others.

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When comparing those to Casper. While Coraline had a Tim Burtonesque design, in terms of subject matter alone I don't recall it dealing with any weighty subject matter - I will say outside of subject matter and into design scheme it is more horror driven (I'd like it to a newer Nightmare Before Christmas). I loved Paranorman, but I'd liken it more to a more mature and better quality Casper:A Spirited New Beginning in that it was first and foremost a supernatural comedy film with a great equality message.



See, I was so "deranged" lol from the 80s and 90s that I'd call that a family film and take my future kids to it. I think if that was made years ago it would have been PG-13. The R is baffling to me. It was basically Jumanji and Gremlins. From your inclusion of it here, I'm guessing you'd agree that the R is odd for it?

Krampuss was rated PG13.
Many of the films you cite don't actually deals with weightier themes than Laikas films or Pixar's. Adams family is a bit dryer but is every bit the comedy as Paranorman. Same forany of these movies. Brave little toaster is essentially a Pixar movie, it was made by many of the same people.

My point t is that many films are just as dark as they always have been. If you include television I'd say childrens media is in general better now thN it's been in the last 20 years.

 

[Kyle]

Krampuss was rated PG13. Many of the films you cite don't actually deals with weightier themes than Laikas films.

My poi t is that many films are just as dark as they always have been. If you include television I'd say childrens media is in general better now thN it's been in the last 20 years.

Oh, always thought Krampus was R for some reason. As said, I'd easily take a 7 year old to see it (which might sound odd, but I see it as Jumanji, Are You Afraid of the Dark, and Goosebumps episodes combined).

Laika overall I'd say are raising the bar over how things used to be. They stand out for that reason (along with how those films are made). But as you said there were those from the past that went further. "Many of the films" don't, which means that you agree that there are those that clearly did. That's what I'd love to go back to. Just raising that bar so there's more variety again like there was.

I agree that Paranorman is like Adams Family.

I will agree that it has gotten better gradually, it's still not there yet and it is still upsetting that live action family films starring children about children are few and far between. Hopefully things will continue to gradually go back to the way things were on both fronts. But, it has been improving - hopefully this is the year that kicks the door wide open again on both fronts or at least in the live action front.

Didn't know the same crew behind The Brave Little Toaster were the Pixar guys. That would explain why when they delve into those serious moments it works so well. Hopefully they'll be able to give us something like TBLT again.

 

[Tony Stark]

E.T. in my opinion is the best children's movie ever released. Nothing has come close to it, in my life time, and I doubt anything will.

 

[2kt09]

My point is that many films are just as dark as they always have been.

No. Especially given what a lot of those older movies got away with it and would easily be slapped with an R or NC-17 rating.

If you include television I'd say children's media is in general better now than it's been in the last 20 years.

The few that are great and still going are possibly the greatest of all time (same with any decade since the 90s and late 80s), but the current media as a whole isn't as strong as a couple years back when it could be argued as being "better than it's been in the last 20 years".


Well, this is the film forum, so I'd rather go in detail towards

Have there been any other animated films as serious as 'How To Train Your Dragon 2'?

Yeah, Laika, in general, has been really up to par, even surpassed most.
Dreamworks started doing those more "serious" action adventure movies since Kung Fu Panda with an unfortunate bomb in Rise of the Guardians.
Speaking of Guardians, Zack Snyder, yes that Zack Snyder, did Legend of the Guardians: The Owls of Ga'Hoole which is definitely as serious as it gets.
Disney have been doing that "serious" thing for a while now as well since Wreck-It-Ralph, excluding Frozen. Zootopia couldn't be more obvious on the message it's conveying. I sure miss their "experimental" 2000s era, but they're a business at the end of the day.
Pixar, recently got off their rut with Inside Out.
WB Animation did that for the longest time with their DC animated straight to video features and just recently started back up again with The Lego Movie, which is both the most happy-go-lucky film disguised as something "serious" with a lot of social commentary.
Aardman Animation, every now and again, comes out with something "serious" like Arthur Christmas amongst the funniest animated features.
And other studios are either content with just making comedies with some themes in them or tried, to say the least, like Reel FX with The Book of Life

----------------
As for live-action
Practically all those action adventure scifi fantasy blockbusters in theaters right now have taken over kids films/entertainment. People will argue that they're all ages, but that's precisely what the "good-great" kids films/entertainment were intended to be = movies parents/guardians/older siblings can enjoy with kids.

 

[chamber-music]

Disney's dark decade (1975 to 1985) was cool.

Disney was putting money into effects-driven horror, sci-fi, and dark fantasy in a way they never had before, still “for kids,” but decidedly more frightening.

Return to Oz
Escape to Witch Mountain
Return from Witch Mountain
The Black Hole
The Watcher in the Woods
Tron
Something Wicked This Way Comes

Was The Monster Squad supposed to be a kids movie?
I watched the film recently and the Shane Black written movie is full of adult stuff.

 

[Kyle]

2kt I should have placed more of an emphasis on serious kids films that are grimm in nature (spelling intentional). Those are great movies (didn't like Inside Out though...) but, they're not really all that reminiscent of the kinds that I'm saying went away. They're more in line with the Disney animation side of things that we got (which is why I didn't include them in that list). Rise of the Guardians and Legends of the Guardians I'd say are about the level I'm talking about, especially Legends of the Guardians.

Was The Monster Squad supposed to be a kids movie?
I watched the film recently and the Shane Black written movie is full of adult stuff.

I always saw it as one. Then again I'm someone who would beyond easily take a 6/7 year old to see 'Krampus' lol.... I just can't see what's in it that a 6/7 year old can't see (it was like a Goosebumps/Are You Afraid Of The Dark episode).

In the live action realm I particularly miss movies about kids starring kids. Hoping this year changes that. Oddly, we still get the same kind of films but sometimes they're Rated R ('Let Me In'). The Liam Neeson giant movie, oh god I am praying that does really well because that could kick the door wide open here as well.

 

[2kt09]

The word you're looking for is "dark" or "gritty". Those Grimm fairy tales certainly were.
That's more of a tone thing than "serious storytelling".

Disney isn't taking as many risks as it once did what with every relatively new live-action IP bombing.

Since you just mentioned the show rather than the movie, RL Stine made that Haunting Hour series, which is quite the trip in memory lane. There's also Spooksville for a more serialized approach.

 

[Kyle]

I like the term gritty, but "dark" I find to be over-used this day and age which I why tried to stay away from using it. You say "dark" and the immediate thing you think of these days is brooding and angsty characters rather than the classic fairy tale notion where the characters aren't brooders but the story itself is certainly dark.

The Haunting Hour was great, sad to see they cancelled it. The puppet/kids' TV program episode scared me lol, great episode. Also recommend The Nightmare Room, it came about the time I stopped watching kid channel shows so I didn't hear about it until fairly recently but it's another great R.L. Stine live action series (2001-2002).

 

[2kt09]

So, the yearning is for more horror/gore themed kids films/entertainment with death or violent demise as plot points?

That's a narrow outlook for serious storytelling.

You say "dark" and the immediate thing you think of these days is brooding and angsty characters rather than the classic fairy tale notion where the characters aren't brooders but the story itself is certainly dark.

...those classic fairy tales are driven by brooding and angsty characters, whether the characters do something about it or something out of the ordinary happens
There's also the other half of fairy tales that are like aesop's fables with an emphasis on teaching foolish characters a lesson

 

[Kyle]

I would call these "grimm".... horror would be the right word, or at least have elements of horror and darker elements in them:

(It's also that films like these largely/unfortunately went away)

Specifically...

The Watcher In The Woods
Labyrinth
The Dark Crystal
The Land Before Time
An American Tail
The Goonies
Flight of the Navigator
Legend
Something Wicked This Way Comes
The Secret of NIMH
The NeverEnding Story
Return to Oz
The Brave Little Toaster
The Witches
Casper
Ferngully: The Last Rainforest
Goosebumps
Are You Afraid Of The Dark?

I would say the other thing is dealing with serious things that kids take seriously seems to be another point of these: dealing directly with kid issues and fears whether that be literal or metaphorical. Are they dark? Yeah, but they allow kids to purge the negative emotions they have and they better help kids while growing up to handle the darker obstacles that come their way. I believe in the Greek term of "catharsis" in concerns to entertainment. Horror films and adult dramas do that a lot for adults, these stories used to do that for kids - you'd laugh, you'd cry, you'd hide under your sheets afraid, and then in the end you'd rejoice and feel all the more better for it. Catharsis. It's, I believe, a very important psychological necessity in stories. Horror stories for example while fun, also serve a healthy psychological purpose and have since the first stories ever began.

(I should note I find it weird/scary that some communities are now doing away with Halloween as well because Halloween is deemed not "appropriate" for kids now....)

Oddly they or a lot of them deal with death, but that's always been a classic staple - one that Walt used a lot and had no problem showing (who still thinks we would get as powerful and as frightening and powerful a scene as Bambi's mother being killed in movies today? I don't think we would or it would be downplayed. Walt believed in showing the darker sides of life such as this for an emotional and psychological reason. I very much align with him)

 

[2kt09]

I would say the other thing is dealing with serious things that kids take seriously seems to be another point of these: dealing directly with kid issues and fears whether that be literal or metaphorical. Are they dark? Yeah, but they allow kids to purge the negative emotions they have and they better help kids while growing up to handle the darker obstacles that come their way. I believe in the Greek term of "catharsis" in concerns to entertainment. Horror films and adult dramas do that a lot for adults, these stories used to do that for kids - you'd laugh, you'd cry, you'd hide under your sheets afraid, and then in the end you rejoice. Catharsis. It's, I believe, a very important psychological necessity in stories.

That's pretty much what redhawk was getting at when they could just flip the channel or find online on that monthly subscription service to a modern show that does just that.