Why are heroes often orphans?

[Ultimatehero]

TDKR discussed in spoilers.

Spoiler

Adding John Blake.

Also got me thinking of another thing. I wonder if those with their parents view these heroes differently from those who lost their parents. For me, I relate to these heroes because I also lost my parents. They've given me the inspiration that although I am at a disadvantage in some things, I can still rise above it and champion the good fight. When seeing Superman, I can relate to his struggles of being from a different planet (international adoption). While many orphans see these heroes as role models because they're like us, those who aren't see it as wish-fulfillment and inspiring; does that mean there are two different vantage points on these characters and emotions they bring up (connective loss vs. wish fulfillment) or that it's basically the same view regardless?

Spoiler

Basically John Blake summarized everything in his scene in TDKR talking to Bruce about orphans looking up to and liking to think of Batman as an "orphan hero" just like them. This adds something and I'm guessing for many others as well. Which also has me beg the question - what about those who didn't need Batman to be an "orphaned hero?" Do orphans emphasize that these heroes are orphans more than others because we need it while to others it's just an interesting yet un-essential part of who they are? Does that establish more of a connection or the same connection?

The thought that just came into my end was Nolan acknowledging how important Batman is to guys like me who grew up needing to believe that despite having lost my parents anything is still possible. The scene of orphans entering Bruce's mansion and being able to call it home just really struck a major chord for me.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I think its much simpler than that. Orphans have to overcome and rise above what a normal man does (notice many villains are orphans too (or have an absent or abusive parent) as well.

I also think that most orphans suffer from self worth especially those who's parents abandoned them. Maybe this aspect makes them care less if they live ? So theyre more willing to go out and risk there lives to do whatever it is that they believe?

Its a very ancient archetype

 

[Thundercrack85]

Think I've already answered this, but it's quite simple.

Parents get in the way. Easier to write orphans.

 

[Ultimatehero]

Well, I was going into a different question lol:

Do those with parents maybe have different subjective views on these heroes than those without parents or is it the same view?

And the second point Spideyboy made, in and outside of comics for sure - or at least for some (don't really feel comfortable in saying all would relate to that comment, but definitely see that as part of me and (same spoiler warning as above)

Spoiler

so simple for John Blake to continue to walk over the bridge prior to it exploding

.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Some characters are orphans with little or no explanation.

Just look at LOTR. Where are any of these characters' parents? Sure we see Frodo's uncles, but where are his parents?

It gets to the point that we assume a protagonist is an orphan by default.

Think comics have it bad? Look at video games. Just look at the Smash Brothers characters. Try to name any character with two living parents, or two parents period.

Mario? Nope. Link? Nope. Samus? Nope. Sonic? Nope.

Gotten to the point where they don't even tell you what happened to their parents.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Well, I was going into a different question lol:

Do those with parents maybe have different subjective views on these heroes than those without parents or is it the same view?

And the second point Spideyboy made, in and outside of comics for sure - or at least for some (don't really feel comfortable in saying all would relate to that comment, but definitely see that as part of me and (same spoiler warning as above)

Spoiler

so simple for John Blake to continue to walk over the bridge prior to it exploding

.

Could be. But what Blake did wasn't exactly unique to orphans. In extreme times and measures people will tend to step up and be a hero when lives are at stake, especially children. The difference is imo orphaned heroes are more willing to go out and look for it rather than waiting for that moment.

Orphans typically feel the need to prove things to themselves or others

 

[Ultimatehero]

While not only confined to Blake, he really didn't have any fear of what would happen to him. I think it's been said before, "a man with nothing to lose has nothing to fear." Just unsure how many would turn back if they did have something to lose. Unsure. But always viewed family as a solid platform some people have and without it that solid ground is gone leaving instead a rather nomadic state for good or bad.

Orphans typically feel the need to prove things to themselves or others

Once again, don't like speaking for others, but definitely. Certainly got me where I am and unsure if I would be otherwise.

 

[Lucifer Maranda]

Ha, I've always noticed and wondered this as well.

I suppose well adusted individuals are boring?

oddly enough it kind of reminds me of this article I recently read
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posttraumatic_growth

 

[Thundercrack85]

They're interesting in times of crisis, but otherwise, not so much.

Still some orphans are well adjusted. Just look at Luke Skywalker.

 

[Ultimatehero]

But the weird thing is if it's so relevant to their characters the why is it ever fully explored psychologically in many of them?
Or maybe it's just so obvious it doesn't really need to be explored...

Unsure what is meant by psychologically.

BUT, Smallville & now Man of Steel seem to really dive into this as well as a couple episodes of Lois & Clark. Smallville being the first to really bring the realism to Clark Kent in the household tensions that arise from it. The Nolan Batman films definitely have as well, TDKR it's a central core. Then you have the self-destructive aspects in Smallville's 'Green Arrow.' Ang Lee's Hulk really dived into it psychologically-speaking. Luke's whole journey almost was centered around his biological father and needing him to be redeemed. Anakin and Obi-Wan certainly had the adoptive father/son relationship going on and the film noted this in 'Attack of the Clones.' The Harry Potter films too go into it over the course of the films. Best metaphorical series I'd say is WB's 'Roswell' (if there's an alien, it's usually an adoptee metaphor...) Then you have the whole biological/adoptive conflict between Thor/Loki going on in Marvel's films. The new Spider-Man films are finally diving into it.

But, yeah, for those looking it is explored a lot. Within comic books themselves, not especially but it is in Ultimate Spider-Man, several Superman comics and Batman comics. But screen adaptations and screen heroes it seems to be there a lot.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

They're interesting in times of crisis, but otherwise, not so much.

Still some orphans are well adjusted. Just look at Luke Skywalker.

Me he's got daddy issues. And in expanded universe goes dark....

 

[Lucifer Maranda]

They're interesting in times of crisis, but otherwise, not so much.

Still some orphans are well adjusted. Just look at Luke Skywalker.

Lol, no he's not.

The dude was grumpy and moody and always complained about how boring his home world was and to cope with said boredom he drove around shooting wombats or whatever they were called.

Not only that but he started hanging out with some creepy old hermit and bounty hunter only to suddenly leave and traverse the galaxy to stop an evil galaxtic empire and join a rebel alliance only to find his father is a crazy evil nutcase and subsequently get his hand chopped out and freak out and all that stuff. Not to mention he made out with his sister.

Doesn't sound well adusted at all

 

[Thundercrack85]

Me he's got daddy issues. And in expanded universe goes dark....

Nobody cares about the expanded universe.

Okay, fine. Frodo Baggins.

He was perfectly well adjusted. Even if he was as interesting as a bowl of oatmeal.

 

[Lucifer Maranda]

Unsure what is meant by psychologically.

BUT, Smallville & now Man of Steel seem to really dive into this as well as a couple episodes of Lois & Clark. Smallville being the first to really bring the realism to Clark Kent in the household tensions that arise from it. The Nolan Batman films definitely have as well, TDKR it's a central core. Then you have the self-destructive aspects in Smallville's 'Green Arrow.' Ang Lee's Hulk really dived into it psychologically-speaking. Luke's whole journey almost was centered around his biological father and needing him to be redeemed. Anakin and Obi-Wan certainly had the adoptive father/son relationship going on and the film noted this in 'Attack of the Clones.' The Harry Potter films too go into it over the course of the films. Best metaphorical series I'd say is WB's 'Roswell' (if there's an alien, it's usually an adoptee metaphor...) Then you have the whole biological/adoptive conflict between Thor/Loki going on in Marvel's films. The new Spider-Man films are finally diving into it.

But, yeah, for those looking it is explored a lot. Within comic books themselves, not especially but it is in Ultimate Spider-Man, several Superman comics and Batman comics. But screen adaptations and screen heroes it seems to be there a lot.

Yeah, I realized that afterwards so I edited my post.

But I can think of many where it's never really touched at all.
It's only kind of passively noted.

But I think often times with those characters they tend to kind of be blank canvases in a sense. Like Frodo...

Though perhaps that's one reason why he felt like such an outsider in the Shire and had such a yearning to explore the outside world.
Okay yeah, maybe it usually touched on.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Nobody cares about the expanded universe.

Okay, fine. Frodo Baggins.

Who kept putting an evil ring on his finger who wouldn't of made it or accomplished anything without his friends? And trusted a boney annorexic with a speech impediment over his best friend??

 

[Thundercrack85]

Well if those are your standards, then no one is well adjusted.

 

[Ultimatehero]

Though perhaps that's one reason why he felt like such an outsider in the Shire and had such a yearning to explore the outside world.

Might be. I know I've always been drawn to traveling. If I could, I'd just go a complete 'Into the Wild' route lmaol.

I think it's also there despite some people may not having noticed it. For example, 'Where the Wild Things Are' to me is a whole story of a dysfunctional family and the boy's feelings from having lost his father - just seen in the whole story he tells filled with imagery to his mom. Then you have Peter Pan, unsure how true this is but I connect it's said that many of us are still children in many regards, isn't delved into but is there in the character. Then, going into the bad guy realm - Jackson on 'Teen Wolf' while some things are clearly stated "he hasn't been able to tell us he loved us since we told him he's adopted" and "trying to impress someone he's never even met" it's still just even in the creature he becomes needing a 'master' or 'father figure' which is something I seem to always be looking for; not clearly stated, but in the background of formulating a character. For Anakin he can't lose anyone else and he constantly wants to impress especially his 'father figure' which causes him great turmoil. Just not explicitly stated.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Well if those are your standards, then no one is well adjusted.

Ill give you that he's more adjusted than most orphan heroes, but it also goes to show you that hes also kind of a boring blank slate compared to even Sam

 

[Karem-Knight]

Think comics have it bad? Look at video games. Just look at the Smash Brothers characters. Try to name any character with two living parents, or two parents period.

Mario? Nope. Link? Nope. Samus? Nope. Sonic? Nope.

Gotten to the point where they don't even tell you what happened to their parents.

I think that the writers are just too lazy to give these guys backstory, especially Mario and Sonic (I mean.....he's a hedgehog). But Link seems to basically be the archetypical hero, so I can see him being an orphan. One with massive ADHD but still.

Also, would Solid Snake count? I mean him and his brothers were clones but Snake has an oedipal complex with killing his "father" (Big Boss).

 

[Mike_D202]

From a fictional perspective, almost all "superheroes/heroes" have had some kind of tragedy to ignite they're flame for "heroics" (and I use that term very loosely because sometimes people do "heroic" things for attention/glamor). The reason why most fictional heroes are orphaned is because of a story narrative standpoint: the common criminal took they're parents/guardians away and the character either vows vengance or uses they're power (whether that power is supernatural or a skill) to prevent anything like that happening to anyone ever again. Spider-Man for example, he was using his abilities for selfish reasons at first before his Uncle was killed by a criminal that he had the power to stop. He learned the hard way, but he learned.

Now, look at real life. Look at "Phoenix Jones" (self-proclaimed super hero in Seattle, WA). He's doing the "hero" thing for media attention and glamor (and I'm pretty sure he's not orphaned). Not saying that heroes need to be orphaned to do selfless acts, just that there's a big difference in doing selfless acts as heroism and doing them for selfish reasons. That's what separates the heroes from villains.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I think that the writers are just too lazy to give these guys backstory, especially Mario and Sonic (I mean.....he's a hedgehog). But Link seems to basically be the archetypical hero, so I can see him being an orphan. One with massive ADHD but still.

Also, would Solid Snake count? I mean him and his brothers were clones but Snake has an oedipal complex with killing his "father" (Big Boss).

Well, they do at least explain Snake's backstory.

There are actually several different Links. Most don't really have a family. If they do, it's usually a grandparent, uncle, or sibling. In Ocarina of Time, Link had a mother who was mentioned. But by the time of Skyward Sword (the latest Zelda, for anyone not keeping track), they don't even bother giving him relatives. In fact, even Zelda usually doesn't have parents. Which is a bit odd if you consider that she is royalty, and a princess (which would imply she has living family). Ganondorf is also an orphan...

Samus is a classic example. So is Fox (from Star Fox).

Donkey Kong is an odd one. They took the time to give him grandparents (Cranky Kong), and cousins, but never explained what happened to his parents.

And then there's Final Fantasy...

Comics have nothing on video games when it comes to orphans.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I think it's somewhat symbolic of a virgin birth.

 

[vmf214]

Though they're all fictional, there is some psychology behind the association. Abandonment can develop protective personality traits. I have been in therapy for various personal reasons, and was diagnosed with PTSD. In dealing with issues directly related to that as well as childhood traumas, they've added certain abandonment issues to that diagnosis. My doctor labeled me very quickly as a protective personality - I am hypervigilent and sometimes that drives my family crazy. TMI? Well, it just illustrates the association - and that it attracts me to this topics of Hero's both real and fictional. I'd be surprised be if I were to be alone in this respect?

 

[Eddie Brock]

James Bond isn't really a hero, he's an anti-hero.

He's employed by the MI6 to 'save' the world, but like M stated -- Bond is "a blunt instrument".

At least, that's what I get Craig's Bond.

Egotistical, narcissistic, trigger-happy, cold, etc. The man is only worried about three things:

1.) Completing the mission at any cost.
2.) Getting ass.
3.) Drinking.

Bond's a badass, but not a hero.

What about the part in Casino Royale where he's willing to be beaten, tortured, and killed, all in the name of helping MI:6 track down and dismantle a major criminal organization? Seems pretty heroic to me.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Yeah, James Bond isn't an anti hero at all.