Why do you like PREACHER?

You like transmet, but probably some of your arguments for Preacher being an example of Ennis 'hatred' of america could be said about Transmet and Ellis, couldn't it?

And also, Ennis lives in Brooklyn. He moved there towards the end of the series. If he hates America, why did he move there?

Again, Ennis writes despicable characters in WHATEVER he writes, no matter where it takes place. It has nothing to do with nationalities he doesn't like (except, again, the french...).
 
You may be right. Me proving myself right isn't why I encouraged this discussion. Don't get me wrong, I didn't dislike Preacher, just didn't enjoy it as much as you guys did, and a whole heck of a lot less than Transmetropolitan.

To me, Preacher was a little preachy (go figure) at times and cruel at all times. It made it difficult for me to read without rolling my eyes. I'm a child of the '80s and '90s, so it isn't that I found it shocking. At this point, if I'm not totally desensitized by now, I haven't been paying attention. I felt as if my emotions were being manipulated. But considering that Million Dollar Baby took the Oscar home last year, manipulative entertainment must be in vogue.
 
As far as Transmet goes, it may make me seem hypocritical to love one and bash the other. Maybe so. Bu the sheer scope of ideas and the creation of an insane futuristic landscape draws me to it more than Ennis' Americana. Ellis crams in more novel ideas in a single panel than most writers cram into an entire arc.
 
Killgore said:
How poignant would the death of Bruce Wayne's parents have been if they had died with their bare asses in the air and turds hanging from their buttocks while Bruce knelt beside them?
I would love to find out the answer to this question :D:D:D
 
Man, this was a great thread. Killgore, you still there? Has time changed your opinion of Preacher any?
 
I recently read some of Preacher (the first and I'm half-way through the second), and so far it's F**KING INCREDIBLE.

By the way, one other point about the "bad against America" stuff that you guys are talking about, here's a point that shows that Ennis doesn't hate America.

Jesse Custer, the hero of the story, the guy that we should all be like (following his dad's code "Be a good man, because there's way to many of the bad."), his spirit guide, his partner, is motherf**king JOHN WAYNE. How good and American can you get than him?
 
JRK, you probably shouldn't read through this thread if you just started the series. Tons of spoilers in here.
 
Elijya said:
JRK, you probably shouldn't read through this thread if you just started the series. Tons of spoilers in here.

None of it made enough sense for me to be spoiled, with the exception of Arseface hooking up with someone, which makes me even more interested as to who in the hell would hook up with him. :o

But I will try to stay away, just in case. :)
 
Elijya said:
Man, this was a great thread. Killgore, you still there? Has time changed your opinion of Preacher any?
It has and it hasn't. After letting it settle for over a year, I went back and reread it and found that I had an affinity to Jessie and Tulip. But reading The Boys brought it all back. I truly feel that Ennis is a *****e, and he shouldn't be allowed within 100 yards of a superhero. He's a sadistic writer. As a writer myself, I understand putting your characters through hell, but he humiliates them at their weakest moments. He has difficulty committing to the scene, and allowing the moment to be sincere. Ennis is likened to Tarantino quite frequently, but Tarantino knows when to pull back and go for the heart rather than the gut. It's those moments, no matter how scant, that we are able to sympathize with the characters, rather than laugh at them. He gives us a moment where we can connect with the Bride without it being all irreverent. Imagine the scene in Kill Bill where Kiddo chats with Bill at the church. It endears us to the characters and makes the moment of betrayal that much more poignant. And that moment of brutal slaughter happens off camera. If Ennis had told it, Bill would have blew everyone away in gory but yet silly detail and Bill would have given her a pink sock and a nasty sanchez while Bud ejaculated on the alter. He cannot help but to humiliate his characters, and in return he is being disrespectful to the audience.
 
By the way, as for the something awful post where I plagiarized myself, I had just become a member after lurking for years. As you've probably noticed, I put a lot of effort and time into my posts, and for my first SA post I just decided to recycle a post rather than spend a half hour writing a new one. Didn't think I'd be busted for plagiarizing myself.:O
 
Killgore, you'll have to edit the pink sock link. Hype rules, and all. It was informative, though.
 
But we're in a PREACHER thread. If it is offensive, then you shouldn't be here.... Ah, well. It's not worth the fight...Just google pink sock if you're interested in a cartoon of people...ummmm...having intercourse....and....ummmmmm....the man humiliating his partner.
 
Killgore said:
But we're in a PREACHER thread. If it is offensive, then you shouldn't be here.... Ah, well.

Again, Hype rules. There are alot of pictures from Preacher that wouldn't be allowed to be posted here.

Anyway, I still haven't gotten your PM response.
 
Killgore said:
It has and it hasn't. After letting it settle for over a year, I went back and reread it and found that I had an affinity to Jessie and Tulip. But reading The Boys brought it all back. I truly feel that Ennis is a *****e, and he shouldn't be allowed within 100 yards of a superhero. He's a sadistic writer. As a writer myself, I understand putting your characters through hell, but he humiliates them at their weakest moments. He has difficulty committing to the scene, and allowing the moment to be sincere. Ennis is likened to Tarantino quite frequently, but Tarantino knows when to pull back and go for the heart rather than the gut. It's those moments, no matter how scant, that we are able to sympathize with the characters, rather than laugh at them. He gives us a moment where we can connect with the Bride without it being all irreverent. Imagine the scene in Kill Bill where Kiddo chats with Bill at the church. It endears us to the characters and makes the moment of betrayal that much more poignant. And that moment of brutal slaughter happens off camera. If Ennis had told it, Bill would have blew everyone away in gory but yet silly detail and Bill would have given her a pink sock and a nasty sanchez while Bud ejaculated on the alter. He cannot help but to humiliate his characters, and in return he is being disrespectful to the audience.

I kind of missed the part where frequent comparisons to Tarantino meant that Ennis has to somehow defer to the man. You are waging a flawed argument by comparing too different artists working in two very different mediums.
Ennis' proposed sadism is predicated by his love of imported American junk culture, it's what he, I, and millions of other kids grew up with: dumb as dirt, loud action flicks, trashy horror movies, and Dirt Harry's .357.

In fact, Ennis' view of America and his stories in which it frequently takes center stage is analogous to one of his favorite film genres: The Spaghetti Western. A European wrought mirror negative to the John Wayne, Gene Autry, white hats and white horses fables, that exposed a rougher, more ambivalent, and frankly, oft amoral side of the American headspace.

That isPreacher. Preacher is for a wide range of people, not just for 14 year olds who think "Fat people, blood, anal rape, and ******ed s**t eating Jesus is kewl doodz!". It was special to me specifically because in reading it I discovered that Ennis is in fact a tremendously moral writer, moral for people who know that there was such thing as moral before the birth of Christianity (which frankly, I find to be an utterly regrettable event in human history).
Preacher is fearless in a lot of its subject matter, but what kept me reading was its wonderful depiction of friendship, devotion, and male bonding. It captured the ebb and flow of such relationships in both realistic and hyper-realistic ways, and rarely a step did it miss.

Ennis' only real failing as a writer is his devotion to excessively juvenile, not offensive, but juvenile humor. Ennis will constantly take that **** to the wall and never look back, and yes, it can be distracting. However, Ennis at his best, is one of the best, and has a terrific grasp of that battle that ensues when man clashes with society and when man clashes with himself than almost any other writer in mainstream comicdom.

*Also, it is my firm opinion, that morality should never, ever be a prerequisite for a writer of fiction. To insinuate, as you have, that an artist should know when to "pull back" when taking on issues of viloence and sex is an affront to some of the most important literary and filmic figures that ever walked this bedraggled ball of dirt.

*And! I love the concept of the superhero, but superheroes are not sacred, and while I'm not quite ready to defend 'The Boys' (It's only just getting started) I'd say that it's meshing of the current political and popculture landscape is appropriate, and promising.
 

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