Superman Returns Why Don't Some Superman Fans Like Superman Returns?

[dr collossus]

"Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."

Gregory Benford

 

[dr collossus]

Well depending on whose point of view you subscribe to, intelligent life is all but impossible, humanoid or otherwise.

 

[dr collossus]

Seriously though, from an academic point of view, a narrative is considered science fiction if it explores the moral, ethical and social implications of developments in science and technology; narrative devices such as fantastic technology don't have to be scientifically feasable. They just have to be feasable in the context of the narrative in order to allow the willing supension of disbelief.

 

[Angeloz]

But why doesn't he look like them (apes)? Not that I'm complaining. 'Cos believe me I love it that he looks cute.

Angeloz

 

[C. Lee]

Superman "looks"like us on the outside....but we don't know what his insides are like. As far as we know, he has 4 lungs, 2 hearts, no gall bladder, and 7 kidneys.

We know that his body isn't exactly like a humans.....take his eyes for example. He can see "normally"....but he also has the ability to see telescopicly, microscopicly, and with x-rays (not too mention those pesky laser beams).....human iris' dilate and undilate in reaction to light (an actual physical occurance).....so there has to be an actual physical occurance in Superman's eyes to switch them from normal, to telescopic, to microscopic....something that human eyes don't have.

 

[afan]

Today's science would look like magic to people from 2000 years ago....who knows how we would percieve alien technology......and just because he flies,it doesn't mean that there isn't a scientific explanation behind it. Kryptonians could have an organ in their body that allows them to control magnetic fields...thus giving them flight.

A computer seems like magic to me already

"Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."

Gregory Benford

"Any sufficiently advanced technology would be indistinguishable from magic."

Arthur C. Clark

I really don't see how any of this makes the point that Superman is Sci-Fi. Unless you are arguing that any flight of fancy no matter how absurd meets the criteria.

 

[Angeloz]

Superman "looks"like us on the outside....but we don't know what his insides are like. As far as we know, he has 4 lungs, 2 hearts, no gall bladder, and 7 kidneys.

We know that his body isn't exactly like a humans.....take his eyes for example. He can see "normally"....but he also has the ability to see telescopicly, microscopicly, and with x-rays (not too mention those pesky laser beams).....human iris' dilate and undilate in reaction to light (an actual physical occurance).....so there has to be an actual physical occurance in Superman's eyes to switch them from normal, to telescopic, to microscopic....something that human eyes don't have.

Nice post C. Lee (plus everyone). I'll admit I know it's 'cos it's generally the case that most aliens look like us or similar in fiction. Humans like to do that.

Angeloz

 

[C. Lee]

I really don't see how any of this makes the point that Superman is Sci-Fi. Unless you are arguing that any flight of fancy no matter how absurd meets the criteria.

We don't know the extent of the technology of Kryptonians. There could be a perfectly logical and scientific reason for all the "super" things he does.

 

[dr collossus]

I really don't see how any of this makes the point that Superman is Sci-Fi. Unless you are arguing that any flight of fancy no matter how absurd meets the criteria.

Basically that's exactly what I'm saying. Not that I personally subscribe to that point of view, but its clearly much easier to support than refute.

Superman is science fiction for other reasons; namely those I stated in the post above.

 

[blake]

I think there was a Planetary story about that...
if Superman would actually look like an alien insted of having a humanoid appearance he had never become the icon he is now. No matter how many good deeds he would perform.

 

[afan]

Certainly the line between Sci-Fi and fantasy is a fine one indeed.

Question.......Martian Manhunter, Sci-Fi or Fantasy?

 

[Angeloz]

Planetary story?

Angeloz

 

[dr collossus]

In Superman/Batman: Enemies Among Us, one of the concepts is that Kryptonians had what we would consider a monstrous appearence, and the Kents were frightened when they found baby Kal-El, so he wiped their memories and changed his appearance to human form. This later turns out to not be true, but is a nice concept.

I've always thought a really interesting idea would be, if you follow the continuity where Jor-El altered his DNA to escape the 'genetic binding' to Krypton, what if he also altered it to make him look like the inhabitants of the planet to which he was sending him?

 

[Angeloz]

Makes sense. Ironically in "Doctor Who" the Doctor made himself human (temporarily) in the third series. Though I don't mind if they look like us. But then there's Jason.

Angeloz

 

[C. Lee]

Planetary story?

Angeloz

Planetary is a great science fiction comic book.....it pulls characters and situations from comics, sci fi movies, pulp magazines....a good read.

 

[Angeloz]

Planetary is a great science fiction comic book.....it pulls characters and situations from comics, sci fi movies, pulp magazines....a good read.

Thanks.

On the subject of Jason. I was thinking he is Superman so he might have super-sperm.

Angeloz

 

[C. Lee]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_(comics)

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Superman knew all there is to know about human anatomy. It was part of the exhaustive knowledge imparted by Jor-el in the FOS. Surely knowledge regarding Human / Kryptonian procreation must have been also revealed.

Obviously Humans and Kryptonians are capable of procreation. So unless Jor-el was ignorant of the reality and misinformed Superman(unlikely given the absolute integrity of Jor-el's wisdom in every other matter), Superman would know for certain that he could impregnate a human and how long gestation would take.



If that were the case, or if any term was inordinate with a normal pregnancy, it would raise serious questions about the nature of the pregnancy; would it not?

And please tell how the hell Jor-El would know if humans and Kryptonians can concieve? There is no possible way for him to know.

 

[Angeloz]

Psychic abilities?

Angeloz

 

[Angeloz]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_(comics)

I've got some of them (TPBs). It's been awhile though (over 6 years).

Angeloz

 

[C. Lee]

And please tell how the hell Jor-El would know if humans and Kryptonians can concieve? There is no possible way for him to know.

If he has wormhole visual capability to see across time and space....he could go to a time in the Earth's future, and either see a child that is announced by Superman as his Human/Kryptonian offspring....or....see a detailed chart by a human scientist showing the genetic makeup of humans, and by studying it against the genetic makeup of Kryptonians, determine if it is scientificly possible for the two species to mate.

 

[Angeloz]

You love those wormholes.

Angeloz

 

[C. Lee]

Stargate....rip in the space time continuim....intergalactic time travel....quantum leap.......wormhole......

 

[afan]

And please tell how the hell Jor-El would know if humans and Kryptonians can concieve? There is no possible way for him to know.

How does he possess knowledge of the human heart enough knowledge to allow a years study on the subject?
Fact is he does, as that is very much detailed in S:TM....."For the next year we shall study the human heart...."
It is rather incongruous that an understanding of human anatomy that comprehensive in scope does not include knowledge of human reproduction. Surely he is familar with Kryptonian reproduction and therefore capable of ascertaining the possibility of mating between Humans and Kryptonians.

 

[dr collossus]

At the end of the day, who cares? It's science fiction. It's a story. It's not hard sf, where the drama and the plot itself revolve around the technology and science.

Why are we arguing about the genetic compatibility between human beings and a fictional alien race? In the context of the story, it's possible. It is well established in the comics that subsequent generations of Superman's offspring are defenders and champions of the future.