Superman Returns Why Don't Some Superman Fans Like Superman Returns?

[X-Maniac]

Hmmm....are you sure you weren't an X-Men fan till you saw the movies? Or perhaps you're a fan of Superman from the tv show? See? You're the same as you accuse some of not being a fan. Don't deny it, liar.

I was a fan of X-Men and Superman long before the movies or TV show.

Listen, don't take it so personally. We're just usernames on monitor displays, talking across cyberspace. I like debate and sometimes I say controversial things, as do many others on here.

Changing the fundamentals of a character is a risk in a movie. I've never claimed X3 to be some Oscar-worthy artform - it changed things too...but it's a different set of circumstances - it had a different director to the first two, who came in at short notice (eight weeks before filming, hardly any pre- or post-prod time) and had to try to follow what Singer did, and also try to satisfy what fans wanted (Storm flying, more action, Danger Room, Phoenix, Juggernaut, Beast etc) and stick to what the studio wanted, and try to have some input of his own (as any director would).

And, once again, i don't 'hate' SR. I'm not sure how many times I need to repeat that information cos it sure as hell isn't getting through.

 

[Orin]

Some fans of Superman did like the film. I'm one of them.

What's your point? Have i denied that or something? Besides, a Superman movie shouldn't be liked by just some fans of the character, but most of them. And i really believe that there are a lots of fans, who only liked the movie, because it was a new Superman movie, no matter how much was wrong with it. I mean, if i ask fans of SR about it, a lot of them say things like "yeah, this was wrong and that was wrong, but...". If i like i movie, of coruse there can be one or two aspects about it i didn't like, but how can i praise a movie if i think main characteristics and stuff like that are just portrayed totally wrong?

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

What's your point? Have i denied that or something? Besides, a Superman movie shouldn't be liked by just some fans of the character, but most of them. And i really believe that there are a lots of fans, who only liked the movie, because it was a new Superman movie, no matter how much was wrong with it. I mean, if i ask fans of SR about it, a lot of them say things like "yeah, this was wrong and that was wrong, but...". If i like i movie, of coruse there can be one or two aspects about it i didn't like, but how can i praise a movie if i think main characteristics and stuff like that are just portrayed totally wrong?

So you still say that some people just liked the movie because it was Superman? Thats just wrong i'm afraid, people can still like a movie if it has a few things wrong with it, no movie is flawless.

 

[storm-x-fan]

i didnt like the direction....

 

[Orin]

Like i said, there are movies i like, even through i don't like certain aspects about them. But the difference is that these aspects aren't essential, but of minor matter, while there are a lot of SR fans mentioning stuff that makes this movie what it is when they said "yeah, the whole kid story was stupid, Superman did a lot of out of character stuff, Lois had nothing to do with Lois and they didn't even use 10 % of Luthors potential, but the movie was awesome, cause it had such a great undertone and visually looked beautiful..."

And i'm not saying that ALL Superman fans who like SR only liked it because it is Superman, but a lot of them certainly do...

 

[stargazer]

Like i said, there are movies i like, even through i don't like certain aspects about them. But the difference is that these aspects aren't essential, but of minor matter, while there are a lot of SR fans mentioning stuff that makes this movie what it is when they said "yeah, the whole kid story was stupid, Superman did a lot of out of character stuff, Lois had nothing to do with Lois and they didn't even use 10 % of Luthors potential, but the movie was awesome, cause it had such a great undertone and visually looked beautiful..."

And i'm not saying that ALL Superman fans who like SR only liked it because it is Superman, but a lot of them certainly do...

WROOOOONG!!

So, you Can read minds now?! Please, just because you and others didn't like or understand the film, it doesn't mean noone got it or enjoyed it on its own terms. To me SR is AMAZING, can you read? AMAZING. I'm totally satisfied with it in many levels, even if I know it's not totally flawless, like BB and others movies that I like and appreciate. Sometimes I feel like this place is some kind of elementary school or something like that..

 

[stargazer]

It makes me laugh, so we are not Superman fans if we liked SR X-M? We are Singer fans, well, I have never tried to hide the fact that Singer's involvment in SR was the reason i was interested in it, yet, afterwards, i have read 28 Superman graphic novels, NON of which were written by Bryan Singer, and loved all but one. And i still love SR, so, once again, your pathetic comments are proved, ********.

Honestly, how hypocritical.

Same here.

Have you read All-Star Superman? I totally recommend it. It's wonderful. And when reading it, that Superman and that Lois remind me of SR a lot in several ways. Both incarnations honour The Legend of Supes, IMO.

 

[Super Kal]

You know what the funniest thing about these comments from X-Maniac is? Is the he constantly calls others, and me for not appreciating the opinions of others, yet he comes out with crap like this, on a regular basis i might add. I have never once said that someone is or isnt a true fan of anything because they liked/disliked anything, yet he calls me and others for doing exactly what he does.

It makes me laugh, so we are not Superman fans if we liked SR X-M? We are Singer fans, well, I have never tried to hide the fact that Singer's involvment in SR was the reason i was interested in it, yet, afterwards, i have read 28 Superman graphic novels, NON of which were written by Bryan Singer, and loved all but one. And i still love SR, so, once again, your pathetic comments are proved, ********.

Honestly, how hypocritical.

now the way he said it may of come across as a bit harsh, but don't you dare even begin to bash him when ones who support the film say that we aren't Superman fans or are a certain dictator just because we didn't like the film...

I've seen people who support it bash, persecute, and bully others who disagree with them.

and you could of done a lot better without cursing at him, either.

 

[Orin]

WROOOOONG!!

So, you Can read minds now?!

No, but since you can't either, you can't say what i said is wrong!

Please, just because you and others didn't like or understand the film, it doesn't mean noone got it or enjoyed it on its own terms.

Never said that. Maybe i should be the one who asks you if you can read. And i'm not running around here, saying that you only liked SR because you don't understand the Superman character, so please stop suggesting the reason why i didn't like SR could maybe be that i didn't understand the movie.

To me SR is AMAZING, can you read? AMAZING. I'm totally satisfied with it in many levels, even if I know it's not totally flawless, like BB and others movies that I like and appreciate.

Great for you, but i don't care about that. There are people who liked it, of which some like everything with the name Superman on it or just liked SR cause they love Superman so much and wanted to like the new movie no matter what, and people who didn't like it, of which some can't be pleased by anything. You don't have to be able to read minds to know that, you just need to read and undertsand peoples postings. And we really don't have to debate about that, cause it's fact...

Sometimes I feel like this place is some kind of elementary school or something like that..

Yeah, me too. Especially when people come to threads where people can state why they didn't like SR and tell them how great the movie was. If you liked it, that's great for you. There are enough threads where you can express that and i don't come there and tell you you shouldn't. And you should do the same thing, lern to accept other opinions about SR and it's circumstances.

 

[Angeloz]

What's your point? Have i denied that or something? Besides, a Superman movie shouldn't be liked by just some fans of the character, but most of them. And i really believe that there are a lots of fans, who only liked the movie, because it was a new Superman movie, no matter how much was wrong with it. I mean, if i ask fans of SR about it, a lot of them say things like "yeah, this was wrong and that was wrong, but...". If i like i movie, of coruse there can be one or two aspects about it i didn't like, but how can i praise a movie if i think main characteristics and stuff like that are just portrayed totally wrong?

I thought you were implying with your previous post that there's Superman fans and "Superman Return" fans. Which are supposed to be separate. Or basically that because (if my impression is right) you disliked the film then everyone that also disliked the film are Superman fans and others aren't. It was an impression I got. So I'm saying as a long time Superman fan I liked the film. In fact I loved it. That's all. I don't require agreement but I just want to be acknowledged as a Superman fan. Because I can list a whole lot of things I've seen and read in the past (nearly) 30 years I've loved the character. Including watching the first two films over fifty times from the late eighties (fiftieth anniversary). Though that was awhile ago as I've probably seen them less than 10 times in the past ten years. My hint is to moderate your language to "some fans" or better still "I feel" instead of claiming it's every fan (or implying it). By the way even if someone didn't like "Superman Returns" I don't think they're not a fan of Superman. I ask for the same respect. That's all.

Angeloz

 

[dr collossus]

Bingo.

 

[Orin]

I have never said and would never say that people who liked SR aren't real Superman fans or crap like that. I have always agreed that the movie splits the fan base in half, which actually is the problem, at least in my eyes.

 

[StylishHokie21]

You know what the funniest thing about these comments from X-Maniac is? Is the he constantly calls others, and me for not appreciating the opinions of others, yet he comes out with crap like this, on a regular basis i might add. I have never once said that someone is or isnt a true fan of anything because they liked/disliked anything, yet he calls me and others for doing exactly what he does.

It makes me laugh, so we are not Superman fans if we liked SR X-M? We are Singer fans, well, I have never tried to hide the fact that Singer's involvment in SR was the reason i was interested in it, yet, afterwards, i have read 28 Superman graphic novels, NON of which were written by Bryan Singer, and loved all but one. And i still love SR, so, once again, your pathetic comments are proved, ********.

Honestly, how hypocritical.

Here's a quote directly from you basically saying our opinions are irrelevant because we don't like the movie. Tell me I'm wrong.

But both of your comments are opinions, of which there are many opposing one's at least on the web and probably around the world.

You say it's our opinions. Well...DUH! This is a dicussion board where people share their OPINIONS on certain topics. Nowhere in my post did I state anything as a fact. You knew that. Next you say there are many opposing OPINIONS on the web and probably around the world. Thanks for that useful information! Do I honestly care if someone doesn't share my OPINION?

Hypocritical is the definition of your post. Insulting another user isn't real smart either when trying to get your point across. So much for appreciating opinions, eh?

 

[Angeloz]

I think most people here have had bad days when posting if they've been around long enough. No-one would be completely innocent. So let's just be bygones. And leave the crap in the past. Just a suggestion (as I'd include myself too on the lack of perfection). To be human is to err (I'm trying to be helpful rather than annoying). Or we could just have a pillow fight (OK silly)?

Angeloz

 

[El Payaso]

Like i said, there are movies i like, even through i don't like certain aspects about them. But the difference is that these aspects aren't essential, but of minor matter, while there are a lot of SR fans mentioning stuff that makes this movie what it is when they said "yeah, the whole kid story was stupid, Superman did a lot of out of character stuff, Lois had nothing to do with Lois and they didn't even use 10 % of Luthors potential, but the movie was awesome, cause it had such a great undertone and visually looked beautiful..."

I've seen fans saying much more stupid things about movies. The thing is they're fans. Not supposed to be taken too seriously.

And i'm not saying that ALL Superman fans who like SR only liked it because it is Superman, but a lot of them certainly do...

Well, as you say, it IS Superman. That's a big part why I liked the movie.

 

[Orin]

I think most people here have had bad days when posting if they've been around long enough. No-one would be completely innocent. So let's just be bygones. And leave the crap in the past. Just a suggestion (as I'd include myself too on the lack of perfection). To be human is to err (I'm trying to be helpful rather than annoying). Or we could just have a pillow fight (OK silly)?



Angeloz

Yeah, i think most Superman fans, if they liked SR or not, agree about the things Singer did wrong with the movie. And i also think it should be in the interest of the fans that, if Singer gets another shot, these mistakes won't be repeated. In my opinion, that should be the focus of this thread, not that hole fighting thing between SR supporters and people who didn't like the movie. Personally, of course i would prefer it if Singer wouldn't return, since the only mistake about SR he admits seems to be the lack of action and SR + more action wouldn't be any better for me than SR was. But i really hope that, if he comes back, which isn't unlikely, he listens to the points of criticism from the fans, cause they are about much more than just the missing action...

 

[storm-x-fan]

I have never said and would never say that people who liked SR aren't real Superman fans or crap like that. I have always agreed that the movie splits the fan base in half, which actually is the problem, at least in my eyes.

i agree with u..thats the problem...

 

[stargazer]

Like i said, there are movies i like, even through i don't like certain aspects about them. But the difference is that these aspects aren't essential, but of minor matter, while there are a lot of SR fans mentioning stuff that makes this movie what it is when they said "yeah, the whole kid story was stupid, Superman did a lot of out of character stuff, Lois had nothing to do with Lois and they didn't even use 10 % of Luthors potential, but the movie was awesome, cause it had such a great undertone and visually looked beautiful..."

And i'm not saying that ALL Superman fans who like SR only liked it because it is Superman, but a lot of them certainly do...[/quote]

Right here, Orin, you are clearly saying that a lot of Superman fans liked SR because it is Superman, not because we honestly enjoy the movie for what it is. That's why I asked you if you can read minds..See? I understood perfectly. Or do you have link with a poll all of the audience who saw the film who told you that? it's just your opinion.

I thought you were implying with your previous post that there's Superman fans and "Superman Return" fans. Which are supposed to be separate. Or basically that because (if my impression is right) you disliked the film then everyone that also disliked the film are Superman fans and others aren't. It was an impression I got. So I'm saying as a long time Superman fan I liked the film. In fact I loved it. That's all. I don't require agreement but I just want to be acknowledged as a Superman fan. Because I can list a whole lot of things I've seen and read in the past (nearly) 30 years I've loved the character. Including watching the first two films over fifty times from the late eighties (fiftieth anniversary). Though that was awhile ago as I've probably seen them less than 10 times in the past ten years. My hint is to moderate your language to "some fans" or better still "I feel" instead of claiming it's every fan (or implying it). By the way even if someone didn't like "Superman Returns" I don't think they're not a fan of Superman. I ask for the same respect. That's all.

Angeloz

Exactly.

No, but since you can't either, you can't say what i said is wrong!


Never said that. Maybe i should be the one who asks you if you can read. And i'm not running around here, saying that you only liked SR because you don't understand the Superman character, so please stop suggesting the reason why i didn't like SR could maybe be that i didn't understand the movie.


Great for you, but i don't care about that. There are people who liked it, of which some like everything with the name Superman on it or just liked SR cause they love Superman so much and wanted to like the new movie no matter what, and people who didn't like it, of which some can't be pleased by anything. You don't have to be able to read minds to know that, you just need to read and undertsand peoples postings. And we really don't have to debate about that, cause it's fact...


Yeah, me too. Especially when people come to threads where people can state why they didn't like SR and tell them how great the movie was. If you liked it, that's great for you. There are enough threads where you can express that and i don't come there and tell you you shouldn't. And you should do the same thing, lern to accept other opinions about SR and it's circumstances.

 

[Angeloz]

Yeah, i think most Superman fans, if they liked SR or not, agree about the things Singer did wrong with the movie. And i also think it should be in the interest of the fans that, if Singer gets another shot, these mistakes won't be repeated. In my opinion, that should be the focus of this thread, not that hole fighting thing between SR supporters and people who didn't like the movie. Personally, of course i would prefer it if Singer wouldn't return, since the only mistake about SR he admits seems to be the lack of action and SR + more action wouldn't be any better for me than SR was. But i really hope that, if he comes back, which isn't unlikely, he listens to the points of criticism from the fans, cause they are about much more than just the missing action...

So no pillow fight? Man can't there be fun fights?

You're getting in trouble again. Because everyone isn't you. Nor does everyone agree on everything. A lot of it is a matter of taste. Also a matter of what people can tolerate. I don't object to the idea of changes if the aim is to make a better film. I'm sure he wants to do that. But I don't think there is complete agreement on things. Even among Superman fans. I could point to the costume thread and discussions as an example. In particular some fans want to get rid of the trunks and others want them to be retained (I'm of the latter opinion and I think they were the best live-action version in the film because they didn't look like an adult nappy). I also liked the family crest on the belt. Not everyone does. That's why thinking everyone thinks the same as everyone else is problematic. I also hope they remember to have the film be thematically about him and not the bad guys (that's one of the things I loved about "Superman Returns"). I don't know what others think about that (in the sequel in particular) as I don't read every thread. I'm sure there are other things that people don't agree on too (as fans). As we're a diverse group of people that won't always agree on everything.

Angeloz

 

[Orin]

Right here, Orin, you are clearly saying that a lot of Superman fans liked SR because it is Superman, not because we honestly enjoy the movie for what it is. That's why I asked you if you can read minds..See? I understood perfectly. Or do you have link with a poll all of the audience who saw the film who told you that? it's just your opinion.

That's not something they'd state in a poll, that's something you can read from their postings. Just like people who didn't like SR because they can't be pleased by anything anyway won't say "i didn't like the movie cause i'm a nitpickers". But these people are still there, both of them. You know, it's funny that you metioned the "can't be pleased by anything" facton before yourself, but when i'm mentioning the "only loved the movie cause it finally was the new Superman film they've waited for for so long" guys, it's a problem for you? And of course it's my opnion that these people are a big part of the SR fans, but not because i made that up, but because i've got that impression from what i've read from those fans. And again, it's still not something they'd admit if you'd ask them why they liked the movie. Anyway, i think i should be alowed to state my opinion on why some people like or don't like SR, just like anybody else, at least as long as i don't insult anyone and i don't think i've done that.

So no pillow fight? Man can't there be fun fights?



You're getting in trouble again. Because everyone isn't you. Nor does everyone agree on everything.

But there are certain things about SR a lot of fans, even fans that liked the movie, agree on that they where portrayed simply wrong. So i'm not saying that's what everyone thinks cause it think so, but cause i read a lot of people complaining about this stuff.

A lot of it is a matter of taste. Also a matter of what people can tolerate. I don't object to the idea of changes if the aim is to make a better film. I'm sure he wants to do that. But I don't think there is complete agreement on things.

Never said there's a complete agreement on things, but there a things about SR the biggest part of the fandom would agree on. And for the record, i don't mind changes at all, not even if there are lots of them. But the key it that the movie still stays true to the character and IMO SR didn't.

Even among Superman fans. I could point to the costume thread and discussions as an example. In particular some fans want to get rid of the trunks and others want them to be retained (I'm of the latter opinion and I think they were the best live-action version in the film because they didn't look like an adult nappy). I also liked the family crest on the belt. Not everyone does. That's why thinking everyone thinks the same as everyone else is problematic. I also hope they remember to have the film be thematically about him and not the bad guys (that's one of the things I loved about "Superman Returns"). I don't know what others think about that (in the sequel in particular) as I don't read every thread. I'm sure there are other things that people don't agree on too (as fans). As we're a diverse group of people that won't always agree on everything.



Angeloz

Of course the fans agree on almost nothing, but what i was talking about was the essential stuff, the stuff that makes Superman and the other characters who they are. Most fans agree on that, simpley because the comics give a clear picture of it. And from my point of view, it isn't deniable that some of the changes Singer made were those essential things.

Btw, what i also can't really understand. I've heard a lot of people, who saw the first Superman movie back in the late 70s when it was first released (properbly their first contact with the character), saying that they love SR for it's nostalgia. I mean, i grew up with Burtons Batman, loved the movie and all, but i still think it would suck if the next Batman director would do a remake of that. It was Singers task to do a mordern Superman movie, not paying homage to some movie he liked thirty years back...

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

now the way he said it may of come across as a bit harsh, but don't you dare even begin to bash him when ones who support the film say that we aren't Superman fans or are a certain dictator just because we didn't like the film...

I've seen people who support it bash, persecute, and bully others who disagree with them.

and you could of done a lot better without cursing at him, either.

Point out to me were i said an SR fan has never said it please Kal, i'll can wait forever because you wont find it, i know some SR fans are overzealous in their defense, i have even called some SR fans on it. The reason i bashed him is because he is constantly calling me for not appreciating the opinions of others, when i do nothing of the sort, and yet here he is doing something that he calls others for, his opinion of SR was irrelevant in the argument, so dont go calling me without knowing all of the facts either.

Here's a quote directly from you basically saying our opinions are irrelevant because we don't like the movie. Tell me I'm wrong.

Honestly, can you even read? I said nothing of the sort in that post, NO ONE's opinion is irrelevant, whether you disagree with it or not.

You say it's our opinions. Well...DUH! This is a dicussion board where people share their OPINIONS on certain topics. Nowhere in my post did I state anything as a fact. You knew that. Next you say there are many opposing OPINIONS on the web and probably around the world. Thanks for that useful information! Do I honestly care if someone doesn't share my OPINION?

Hypocritical is the definition of your post. Insulting another user isn't real smart either when trying to get your point across. So much for appreciating opinions, eh?

You were the one who stated SR being a bad movie is a fact when it so clearly isnt, again, read the post properly my friend. And who did i insult exactly, did i actually call anyone a name? Again read the post properly.

 

[Super Kal]

Point out to me were i said an SR fan has never said it please Kal, i'll can wait forever because you wont find it, i know some SR fans are overzealous in their defense, i have even called some SR fans on it. The reason i bashed him is because he is constantly calling me for not appreciating the opinions of others, when i do nothing of the sort, and yet here he is doing something that he calls others for, his opinion of SR was irrelevant in the argument, so dont go calling me without knowing all of the facts either.

I know both sides do it, and that's why I'm sick and tired of hearing it... no matter who it comes from... but don't forget, you got a little high and mighty yourself when you blatantly insulted him at the end of your little speech, and that's mostly why I got onto you.

 

[Angeloz]

That's not something they'd state in a poll, that's something you can read from their postings. Just like people who didn't like SR because they can't be pleased by anything anyway won't say "i didn't like the movie cause i'm a nitpickers". But these people are still there, both of them. You know, it's funny that you metioned the "can't be pleased by anything" facton before yourself, but when i'm mentioning the "only loved the movie cause it finally was the new Superman film they've waited for for so long" guys, it's a problem for you? And of course it's my opnion that these people are a big part of the SR fans, but not because i made that up, but because i've got that impression from what i've read from those fans. And again, it's still not something they'd admit if you'd ask them why they liked the movie. Anyway, i think i should be alowed to state my opinion on why some people like or don't like SR, just like anybody else, at least as long as i don't insult anyone and i don't think i've done that.

This wasn't in response to me but I'd like to tackle your assumption that some Superman fans that liked the film did so because they were waiting for so long for a Superman film. It wasn't the case for me in particular. I won't claim it for others. I saw the fourth film in the cinema. It was a disappointment to say the least. Actually if you get me started I could write a rant about it. Let's try to avoid that. The thing that added to the disappointment was I read the Junior Novel and loved that. But saw how editing changed it (oops - I'll stop there).

I also watched "Lois & Clark", some of the fifties series during the nineties (not much as it was on 2am and not always on the scheduled time to tape), the various animated series and even "Smallville" (I haven't even mentioned the comics). During this time I had vaguely heard about Burton and Nicholas Cage. Which further alienated me to Superman being on film. I also saw the famous picture of Brandon Routh as Superman on the TV News. Since I remember the third film I didn't love it. So this made me highly sceptical when it came to the film version of Superman. Combine that with seeing "Batman & Robin" on video in the nineties. I really was not excited about comic films in general (though "X-Men" changed that).

So the thing that got me interested in the film was the first teaser trailer. I loved it. As well as the other clips I saw. It looked like the film for me and it was. Actually much more than I expected. By the way because of Christopher Reeve I wasn't sure if the new guy could make me believe he was the character(s). He did. For me I was highly cynical even hours before I saw the film. With the clips I did have hopes that I could like it. But it was never a certainty. So I definitely wasn't waiting or hoping for a new film and when it showed up I was highly dubious until I actually saw it.

But there are certain things about SR a lot of fans, even fans that liked the movie, agree on that they where portrayed simply wrong. So i'm not saying that's what everyone thinks cause it think so, but cause i read a lot of people complaining about this stuff.

But there'll always be complaining. Or at least discussions on what people liked and didn't like. Even if you have agreement on what was weakest with some things there may not be agreement on the solution.

Never said there's a complete agreement on things, but there a things about SR the biggest part of the fandom would agree on. And for the record, i don't mind changes at all, not even if there are lots of them. But the key it that the movie still stays true to the character and IMO SR didn't.

See there's disagreement there. I thought he was Superman. He chose to save people over his life and even perhaps those he cared for.

Of course the fans agree on almost nothing, but what i was talking about was the essential stuff, the stuff that makes Superman and the other characters who they are. Most fans agree on that, simpley because the comics give a clear picture of it. And from my point of view, it isn't deniable that some of the changes Singer made were those essential things.

Interesting. Although I disagree that comics are clear or really give a straight up one-of-a-kind version of him. Because he's changed a lot. Actually he's done different things in the comics.

Btw, what i also can't really understand. I've heard a lot of people, who saw the first Superman movie back in the late 70s when it was first released (properbly their first contact with the character), saying that they love SR for it's nostalgia. I mean, i grew up with Burtons Batman, loved the movie and all, but i still think it would suck if the next Batman director would do a remake of that. It was Singers task to do a mordern Superman movie, not paying homage to some movie he liked thirty years back...

"Superman Returns" wasn't a remake. It had elements that was the same but if it was a remake I'd probably be bored. Plus I'm glad there was no amnesia kiss nor time travel. By the way I too like Burton's as well as Nolan's Batman films (I do prefer Superman as a character however). I even hope I'll like this year's film even more than the last one.

Angeloz

 

[LexCorp]

This wasn't in response to me but I'd like to tackle your assumption that some Superman fans that liked the film did so because they were waiting for so long for a Superman film. It wasn't the case for me in particular. I won't claim it for others. I saw the fourth film in the cinema. It was a disappointment to say the least. Actually if you get me started I could write a rant about it. Let's try to avoid that. The thing that added to the disappointment was I read the Junior Novel and loved that. But saw how editing changed it (oops - I'll stop there).

I also watched "Lois & Clark", some of the fifties series during the nineties (not much as it was on 2am and not always on the scheduled time to tape), the various animated series and even "Smallville" (I haven't even mentioned the comics). During this time I had vaguely heard about Burton and Nicholas Cage. Which further alienated me to Superman being on film. I also saw the famous picture of Brandon Routh as Superman on the TV News. Since I remember the third film I didn't love it. So this made me highly sceptical when it came to the film version of Superman. Combine that with seeing "Batman & Robin" on video in the nineties. I really was not excited about comic films in general (though "X-Men" changed that).

So the thing that got me interested in the film was the first teaser trailer. I loved it. As well as the other clips I saw. It looked like the film for me and it was. Actually much more than I expected. By the way because of Christopher Reeve I wasn't sure if the new guy could make me believe he was the character(s). He did. For me I was highly cynical even hours before I saw the film. With the clips I did have hopes that I could like it. But it was never a certainty. So I definitely wasn't waiting or hoping for a new film and when it showed up I was highly dubious until I actually saw it.



But there'll always be complaining. Or at least discussions on what people liked and didn't like. Even if you have agreement on what was weakest with some things there may not be agreement on the solution.



See there's disagreement there. I thought he was Superman. He chose to save people over his life and even perhaps those he cared for.



Interesting. Although I disagree that comics are clear or really give a straight up one-of-a-kind version of him. Because he's changed a lot. Actually he's done different things in the comics.



"Superman Returns" wasn't a remake. It had elements that was the same but if it was a remake I'd probably be bored. Plus I'm glad there was no amnesia kiss nor time travel. By the way I too like Burton's as well as Nolan's Batman films (I do prefer Superman as a character however). I even hope I'll like this year's film even more than the last one.

Angeloz

Superman Returns was trying to be to many things at once.

At the same time it was trying to move on from past stories it was trying to reinvent the characters for todays world.

 

[Anubis]

It was?