Why isnt Rock mainstream anymore?

[BlackLantern]

if anyone wants to know how radio operates, and how songs are chosen for air, just read this 11 part article from Salon magazine. its quite in depth, but crazy fascinating (and infuriating):

http://www.salon.com/ent/clear_channel/

Those are all great reads...and having interned and worked for Clear Channel part time years ago, that's pretty much how it works...orders come from the top down

 

[chamber-music]

to be mainstream in america today you have to make the most bland broad appealing unoffensive music possible. Its a shame because alot of great bands are being ignored.

 

[BlackLantern]

^^^but the internet is trying to pick up the slack

 

[Motown Marvel]

the internet does pick up SOME slack. but certainly not enough to overthrow radio or to propel anyone into the mainstream. the internet mainly works for people who are actively interested in music, and searching out music. but thats not the majority of people. the majority of people are exposed to music via the radio. thats all they know, and their tastes reflect as much.

but one day the radio institution will self destruct, and we'll be all the better for it. i just hope it happens sooner than later.

 

[KenK]

the internet does pick up SOME slack. but certainly not enough to overthrow radio or to propel anyone into the mainstream.

You've never heard of Drake, have you?

the internet mainly works for people who are actively interested in music, and searching out music. but thats not the majority of people. the majority of people are exposed to music via the radio. thats all they know, and their tastes reflect as much.

But you're speaking from that standpoint of "If one person does A, then they must not do B." and vice versa. If what you say were entirely true, mainstream music publications like Rolling Stone and Billboard wouldn't be keeping track of downloadable music and internet traffic.

but one day the radio institution will self destruct, and we'll be all the better for it. i just hope it happens sooner than later.

Why do you care? If you're someone who seeks out the music you want to listen to, why should it matter what mainstream radio is doing? And I bet dollars to doughnuts that most of the "real music" artists some of you guys are fans of could care less about being on Top 40 radio, or selling out arenas on world tours, so long as they do well enough to support themselves (and their families, should they have a family to support). And plenty of artists do even better than well enough without mainstream exposure, so it's all relative on that front.

For some people, music is little more than a social lubricant. A mild aural stimulant to keep you alert and aware of your surroundings. But I'm not someone who thinks that's entirely a bad thing. And furthermore, this idea that anyone who likes the music on the radio must not be the type of person to seek out music that's NOT on the radio, is a bit ridiculous (not to mention sickeningly elist). I'm definitely more of an explorer when it comes to finding music I want to listen to. But there are plenty of songs on the radio right now that I enjoy immensely. And I don't believe that it should be one way or another.

 

[BlackLantern]

agreed Kenk...great points

 

[Motown Marvel]

You've never heard of Drake, have you?

enlighten me.

But you're speaking from that standpoint of "If one person does A, then they must not do B." and vice versa. If what you say were entirely true, mainstream music publications like Rolling Stone and Billboard wouldn't be keeping track of downloadable music and internet traffic.

i never said A and B were mutually exclusive. and clearly, i was generalizing the general population. but certainly, no one who is actively interested in music will rely solely on radio for their education. and i would wager that most people are NOT actively interested in music.

and a rag like rolling stone following internet traffic does nothing to define the role internet has played in any of these bands making it to the mainstream. was it mass internet traffic that propelled them to the mainstream? or was it their place in the mainstream that caused the jump in internet traffic? my bet would be on the latter.

Why do you care? If you're someone who seeks out the music you want to listen to, why should it matter what mainstream radio is doing?

generally, in the end, it doesnt matter to me what radio does. im prefectly content with my music and how i get it. but two things: one, the principal of the matter is frustrating (how the music industry/radio is run is disgusting). and two, admittedly, it WOULD be nice to be able to turn on the radio and hear quality music, and hearing other people get excited about it and talking about it. and being able to turn to radio to actually discover new music.

And I bet dollars to doughnuts that most of the "real music" artists some of you guys are fans of could care less about being on Top 40 radio, or selling out arenas on world tours, so long as they do well enough to support themselves (and their families, should they have a family to support). And plenty of artists do even better than well enough without mainstream exposure, so it's all relative on that front.

many of the bands i listen to, i've had conversations with the band members involved. do they require or expect sold out arenas? no. would it be nice? f**k yes. musicians make music to share with other people. and any rational musician wants to do that on their own terms on the largest scale possible (generally speaking). in regards to all working and aspiring musicians, it is EXTREMELY rare that any of them get to make a living off of it. most of them CANNOT support themselves off their music, yet alone a family. they put immense effort into composing, recording, and touring, all to go back to their day job to pay for their life. the remarkable thing about this though is: most of these musicians recognize they're never gonna "make it". they even know they're never going to be able to support themselves on their music. but they still do it! because they have the passion and respect for music, and are excited to share it with whoever is willing to listen. no matter how few it may be. that, i love.

For some people, music is little more than a social lubricant. A mild aural stimulant to keep you alert and aware of your surroundings. But I'm not someone who thinks that's entirely a bad thing.

im with you.

And furthermore, this idea that anyone who likes the music on the radio must not be the type of person to seek out music that's NOT on the radio, is a bit ridiculous (not to mention sickeningly elist).

I'm definitely more of an explorer when it comes to finding music I want to listen to. But there are plenty of songs on the radio right now that I enjoy immensely. And I don't believe that it should be one way or another.

like i said above, its not strictly one way or the other.

 

[Road Warrior]

Music has phases....one genre dominates for a bit, then it lapses and something else takes its place

Agreed.

I think it all has to do with record companies recruiting models instead of musicians. When music videos were rare... although they seem to be on MTV these days... musicians were ugly and they didn't care.

I disagree. Look at rap. Most rappers are ugly. Jay-Z. Ugly. Dr. Dre. Ugly. Timbaland. Typical chubby dude. Yet, they are superstars. No one cares what you look like unless the music is good. Rap proves this.

to be mainstream in america today you have to make the most bland broad appealing unoffensive music possible. Its a shame because alot of great bands are being ignored.

Explain Eminem then. I know its been 10 years, but come on, there's always room for controversial artists. You just have to be good. Period.

 

[terry78]

Most rockers from back in the day were kinda average looking also. Nowadays they're either male model looking, that ruggedly scruffy handsome look, or straight tight jean emo hipsters, all three women find hot.

 

[Road Warrior]

Most rockers from back in the day were kinda average looking also. Nowadays they're either male model looking, that ruggedly scruffy handsome look, or straight tight jean emo hipsters, all three women find hot.

That may be the case in rock, but in rap it's the opposite. Most rappers are ugly. Jay-Z is the first dude that comes to mind. He looks like Joe Camel. Yet he married Beyonce. WTF?

 

[KenK]

enlighten me.

Drake is a Canadian rapper that's become immensely popular in the past year. He's been working at it for a while, but it's only recently that people have been paying attention to him. While he has no doubt benefited somewhat from collaborating with several established artists such as Lil' Wayne, the big thing for him has been releasing mixtapes on the internet. People have discovered his music through the internet moreso than any other platform. He's been selling out low to mid-range club venues all over the country, and when his songs finally did show up on the radio, they skyrocketed to the top of the charts. The whole thing about it is that he had two of the biggest songs of the summer BEFORE he ever even had a major record deal. The internet played an enormous role in putting him in the position he's in now.

I never said A and B were mutually exclusive. and clearly, i was generalizing the general population. but certainly, no one who is actively interested in music will rely solely on radio for their education. and i would wager that most people are NOT actively interested in music.

But your implication is that this is bad, and thus detrimental to the people who are actively interested in music, when it really isn't.

and a rag like rolling stone following internet traffic does nothing to define the role internet has played in any of these bands making it to the mainstream. was it mass internet traffic that propelled them to the mainstream? or was it their place in the mainstream that caused the jump in internet traffic? my bet would be on the latter.

You offer nothing to suggest that it can't be both. Look at Soulja Boy. Yeah, I hate him as much as I'm sure plenty of folks do, but that's another case of a music artist who took full advantage of the internet, and reaped the rewards. Even as his records sales decline, he still sees gains in people who will download songs hear and there from the internet.

generally, in the end, it doesnt matter to me what radio does. im prefectly content with my music and how i get it. but two things: one, the principal of the matter is frustrating (how the music industry/radio is run is disgusting).

But that's arguably ANY kind of industry. Movies, Pharmaceutical Companies, Insurance Companies, Department Stores, Wall Street etc. etc. etc. You'd be hard-pressed to find any major industry that isn't controlled by people who only believe in making more money than they actually NEED.

and two, admittedly, it WOULD be nice to be able to turn on the radio and hear quality music, and hearing other people get excited about it and talking about it. and being able to turn to radio to actually discover new music.

Quality is a matter of opinion. To say nothing of people (some even posting on this thread) who write off entire genres of music to make the case that what they like is better and deserves more exposure.

many of the bands i listen to, i've had conversations with the band members involved. do they require or expect sold out arenas? no. would it be nice? f**k yes. musicians make music to share with other people. and any rational musician wants to do that on their own terms on the largest scale possible (generally speaking).

I wasn't trying to say that certain artists go out of their way to NOT do more than what they may be doing, but there are those who aren't going to feel like they failed if they never end up on MTV or something. Of course they want and SHOULD want to share their music with as many people as possible, but if "as many people as possible" ends up just being large nightclubs, and they never play a big stadium, that's better than most will ever get.

in regards to all working and aspiring musicians, it is EXTREMELY rare that any of them get to make a living off of it. most of them CANNOT support themselves off their music, yet alone a family. they put immense effort into composing, recording, and touring, all to go back to their day job to pay for their life. the remarkable thing about this though is: most of these musicians recognize they're never gonna "make it". they even know they're never going to be able to support themselves on their music. but they still do it! because they have the passion and respect for music. that, i love.

Passion and respect for music are great and all, but that's not always gonna be enough to make me listen to your music. Some aspiring musicians may have all the passion and respect in the world, but suck ass. Or they may be doing music with a very small niche audience. A lot of variables come into play.

 

[Motown Marvel]

Drake is a Canadian rapper that's become immensely popular in the past year. He's been working at it for a while, but it's only recently that people have been paying attention to him. While he has no doubt benefited somewhat from collaborating with several established artists such as Lil' Wayne, the big thing for him has been releasing mixtapes on the internet. People have discovered his music through the internet moreso than any other platform. He's been selling out low to mid-range club venues all over the country, and when his songs finally did show up on the radio, they skyrocketed to the top of the charts. The whole thing about it is that he had two of the biggest songs of the summer BEFORE he ever even had a major record deal. The internet played an enormous role in putting him in the position he's in now.

and there are instances of the internet being integral to artists being propelled into the mainstream. but my point is, its extremely rare. so rare that i would stand my original statement being the internet has little to no effect on mainstream music. i do believe this will change over time. i think radio is slowly self destructing, and as that progresses the internet will in fact become more integral. it's already begun, which is why instances like this Drake fellow happen. but its not there yet. so as of now, i still think the internet's influence on the mainstream is minimal.

But your implication is that this is bad, and thus detrimental to the people who are actively interested in music, when it really isn't.

i never said it was dangerous to people who are actively interested in music. outside of the fact that we cant rely on the radio to discover music. but thats not much of an issue considering all of the other avenues available for musical discovery.

You offer nothing to suggest that it can't be both. Look at Soulja Boy. Yeah, I hate him as much as I'm sure plenty of folks do, but that's another case of a music artist who took full advantage of the internet, and reaped the rewards. Even as his records sales decline, he still sees gains in people who will download songs hear and there from the internet.

again, its an isolated instance. im looking at the whole picture.

But that's arguably ANY kind of industry. Movies, Pharmaceutical Companies, Insurance Companies, Department Stores, Wall Street etc. etc. etc. You'd be hard-pressed to find any major industry that isn't controlled by people who only believe in making more money than they actually NEED.

first off, we're not talking about any of those other industries. secondly, just because its a common practice among most corporate driven industries doesnt make it any less disgusting or frustrating.

Quality is a matter of opinion. To say nothing of people (some even posting on this thread) who write off entire genres of music to make the case that what they like is better and deserves more exposure.

i never said that one opinion is better than the other. but frankly, there is NO diversity in radio. and thats because deregulations have resulted in the homogenization of radio, which has killed competition. you look at markets across the country, and the playlists for all radio stations is the same.

I wasn't trying to say that certain artists go out of their way to NOT do more than what they may be doing, but there are those who aren't going to feel like they failed if they never end up on MTV or something. Of course they want and SHOULD want to share their music with as many people as possible, but if "as many people as possible" ends up just being large nightclubs, and they never play a big stadium, that's better than most will ever get.

yes, selling out large nightclubs would be awesome for bands. but most bands dont even accomplish that. does that make them a failure? depends on what their goals are. i'd personally rate the success based on the music produced. but in the end, that isnt going paying their bills.

Passion and respect for music are great and all, but that's not always gonna be enough to make me listen to your music. Some aspiring musicians may have all the passion and respect in the world, but suck ass. Or they may be doing music with a very small niche audience. A lot of variables come into play.

totally.

 

[chamber-music]

Explain Eminem then. I know its been 10 years, but come on, there's always room for controversial artists. You just have to be good. Period.

As you said Eminem has been around for 10 years and had alot of buzz when he started out. He was also back by Dr Dre who is a legend in the Hip Hop community. certain controversial artists do get the ear of the mainstream for basically being controversial which generates press coverge but by in large the most successful mainstream artists are still the most broad appealing and thats usually the more conservative artists.

You don't have to be talented to be suceessful in the music industry I'm sure everyone on this board could name atleast one artist isn't that great a singer, instrumentalist, songwriter or dancer.

 

[Fresh Prince]

This is a pretty good question.

Really any rock that is mainstream all sounds the same, but the same goes for hip hop.

I think this type of thing happens every decade

70's - disco took over for a while
80's - had new wave Brit bands and pop teen idols
90's - "grunge" was actually played alot, but also hip hop was getting bigger and boy bands
2000's - more pop, hip hop at its peak (so far).

but really its what LastSunrise said, its about whatever is cool at that moment.

Hip Hop is at its peak now? 90s and 80s had way better music.

 

[Fresh Prince]

Drake is a Canadian rapper that's become immensely popular in the past year. He's been working at it for a while, but it's only recently that people have been paying attention to him. While he has no doubt benefited somewhat from collaborating with several established artists such as Lil' Wayne, the big thing for him has been releasing mixtapes on the internet. People have discovered his music through the internet moreso than any other platform. He's been selling out low to mid-range club venues all over the country, and when his songs finally did show up on the radio, they skyrocketed to the top of the charts. The whole thing about it is that he had two of the biggest songs of the summer BEFORE he ever even had a major record deal. The internet played an enormous role in putting him in the position he's in now.


Drake was also on Degrassi.

 

[BlackLantern]

Hip Hop is at its peak now? 90s and 80s had way better music.

commercially and financially speaking

 

[terry78]

Go to any frat party where most of the people are white....99% of the time the music being played is rap. Not good rap but the party rap.

 

[KenK]

Go to any frat party where most of the people are white....99% of the time the music being played is rap. Not good rap but the party rap.

See, I hate sh** like that! Why can't party rap be good?!?!? Too many people have a really rigid idea of what rap music should be! Must it always be about how hard the streets is, or how any rapper who talks about bling and b*tches sucks?

My philosophy is, whatever you choose to rap about, just make sure you do it with some real skill. If you're a lyricist that can come up with a clever way to rhyme about gettin' money and hoes, do it. My issue is with some of the dudes who get popular, and all they're doing is rhyming words in the simplest ways possible. Some cats can't weave words and metaphors and do it in almost a melodic fashion like some other rappers. There's no real synergy between their rhymes and whatever "hot beat" they're rhyming over. And on the other end of the spectrum, you could be the most conscious rapper around, but if your rhyme skills are weak, I don't wanna hear you. Which is why I didn't **** in my pants like a lot of hip-hop bloggers did when KRS-One and Buckshot's song "Robot" came out. Yes, it's got a great message, but I couldn't stand hearing KRS rhyme on that track. It was boring and too simple. It makes Jay's "D.O.A." sound like a masterpiece by comparison.

 

[returntovoid]

Music of today definitely sucks with crap like Rap/Hip-Hop, Pop, Techno/Electronic and Modern R&B. Todays Rock music that's in the mainstream is watered down and is a deviation from the traditional sound of Rock 'n' Roll with all the crap like EMO, Pop Rock and Alternative Etc.

There are hardly not any great Rock bands such as Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Jimi Hendrix and various other Classic Rock bands. The only exceptionally great new bands that I have heard are The Black Keys and Wolfmother.

 

[Motown Marvel]

ugh, i despise wolfmother. they're effing awful. its like they're desperate to be zeppeling, but without the talent. and the lead singer dude is a *****e.

black keys are pretty great though, and they put on a solid show.

 

[returntovoid]

black keys are pretty great though, and they put on a solid show.

The Black Keys have the Blues-Rock sound of the late-60's/70's.

 

[BlackLantern]

Music of today definitely sucks with crap like Rap/Hip-Hop, Pop, Techno/Electronic and Modern R&B. Todays Rock music that's in the mainstream is watered down and is a deviation from the traditional sound of Rock 'n' Roll with all the crap like EMO, Pop Rock and Alternative Etc.

There are hardly not any great Rock bands such as Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Jimi Hendrix and various other Classic Rock bands. The only exceptionally great new bands that I have heard are The Black Keys and Wolfmother.

Techno has always been its own thing, it's always had it's roots in club culture and all that....

Alternative killed hair metal dead and it put pop music in a coma for a couple years, it did have a significant impact

 

[Darthphere]

Everyone is listening to country music now. BlackLantern and I went to see Brad Paisley.

 

[BlackLantern]

Everyone is listening to country music now. BlackLantern and I went to see Brad Paisley.

how can I refuse when you offer me beer and chocolate??

Country has always had the widest appeal of any genre....it goes from like 8 to 80...it's not my thing, but I know the power of country....we have a country themed bar here in CT, I don't know why, but it's there

 

[Darthphere]

how can I refuse when you offer me beer and chocolate??

Country has always had the widest appeal of any genre....it goes from like 8 to 80...it's not my thing, but I know the power of country....we have a country themed bar here in CT, I don't know why, but it's there

Well if country keeps spurning out hot country stars like Carrie Underwood, Taylor Swift, Faith Hill and let's not forget Shania Twain, then call me interested.