Why kids quit comics

[WeaponZed3]

I did a presentation on comics in a media studies class once. I asked the class who saw "X-men", "Spider-man","Blade", "Batman", "TMNT" ect. And nearly everyone had their hand up each time, everyone had it up at least once. Then I asked "Did you like those movies?" and got a mixed murmur of replies, mini reviews. Then I asked "Who watched cartoons based on these characters? Everyone pretty much had, then video games and again nearly every hand was up.
I then asked "Now how many of you read the comics these things are based off of?" and no one had, one girl (a real snotty prep) chimed in with "Their stupid and for kids."
So I naturally brought up things like "Maus", "Watchmen" and "Punisher MAX". I questioned "How can you all love the movies or the games but avoid the ****ING SORCE of these things like its a plague?! Movies never excide the novel, we've discussed this in this class many times, why do you think thats any different for comics?"
"Comics arn't like novels, theirs no skill in the writing if theres pictures" (preppy ***** again)
"More emotion and depth can be conveyed in a 23 page comics then is conveyed in a 200 page novel. Comics are a fusion of arts, literature and graphic arts/fine arts. You've already told me you've never read a comic, so all you have as a base is a stereotype."
Anyway, I made her look stupid in the end, but that is the problem, people don't GET comic books. They only see the main stream (and they love the mainstream in every form but its original for some reason).

I grew up in a town with no comic shop, I had to get my comics from the local MAC'S MARTS, then later I got trades from my bookstore. And I'd have been seriously lost in the stories if I hadn't taken the massive amount of time and effort to read about comics online. I now have the common knowledge of every other comic book geek (which exceeds most non fans). It was a lot of work though... I learned not only about individual characters and their histories, but about the history of the industry.

P.S Goth kids love Alan Moor, he’s the Tim Burton of comics too them.

 

[random_havoc]

I'm opposed to all forms of censorship.

Okay, gotta jump on this one. So you wouldn't object to an all pedophylia sex channel on tv?

My guess is you would, even though it's a type of censorship. Censorship is based on morals, which means unless your an utterly morally sick human being, you support it to some degree. The debate becomes at what point we decide that the line needs to be drawn.

My random comment of the day.

 

[simplysuperhero]

I did a presentation on comics in a media studies class once. I asked the class who saw "X-men", "Spider-man","Blade", "Batman", "TMNT" ect. And nearly everyone had their hand up each time, everyone had it up at least once. Then I asked "Did you like those movies?" and got a mixed murmur of replies, mini reviews. Then I asked "Who watched cartoons based on these characters? Everyone pretty much had, then video games and again nearly every hand was up.
I then asked "Now how many of you read the comics these things are based off of?" and no one had, one girl (a real snotty prep) chimed in with "Their stupid and for kids."
So I naturally brought up things like "Maus", "Watchmen" and "Punisher MAX". I questioned "How can you all love the movies or the games but avoid the ****ING SORCE of these things like its a plague?! Movies never excide the novel, we've discussed this in this class many times, why do you think thats any different for comics?"
"Comics arn't like novels, theirs no skill in the writing if theres pictures" (preppy ***** again)
"More emotion and depth can be conveyed in a 23 page comics then is conveyed in a 200 page novel. Comics are a fusion of arts, literature and graphic arts/fine arts. You've already told me you've never read a comic, so all you have as a base is a stereotype."
Anyway, I made her look stupid in the end, but that is the problem, people don't GET comic books. They only see the main stream (and they love the mainstream in every form but its original for some reason).

You can bring a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

 

[C. Lee]

You can bring a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

But you can make it damn well wish it had.

 

[E-Man]

I did a presentation on comics in a media studies class once. I asked the class who saw "X-men", "Spider-man","Blade", "Batman", "TMNT" ect. And nearly everyone had their hand up each time, everyone had it up at least once. Then I asked "Did you like those movies?" and got a mixed murmur of replies, mini reviews. Then I asked "Who watched cartoons based on these characters? Everyone pretty much had, then video games and again nearly every hand was up.
I then asked "Now how many of you read the comics these things are based off of?" and no one had, one girl (a real snotty prep) chimed in with "Their stupid and for kids."
So I naturally brought up things like "Maus", "Watchmen" and "Punisher MAX". I questioned "How can you all love the movies or the games but avoid the ****ING SORCE of these things like its a plague?! Movies never excide the novel, we've discussed this in this class many times, why do you think thats any different for comics?"
"Comics arn't like novels, theirs no skill in the writing if theres pictures" (preppy ***** again)
"More emotion and depth can be conveyed in a 23 page comics then is conveyed in a 200 page novel. Comics are a fusion of arts, literature and graphic arts/fine arts. You've already told me you've never read a comic, so all you have as a base is a stereotype."
Anyway, I made her look stupid in the end, but that is the problem, people don't GET comic books. They only see the main stream (and they love the mainstream in every form but its original for some reason).

I grew up in a town with no comic shop, I had to get my comics from the local MAC'S MARTS, then later I got trades from my bookstore. And I'd have been seriously lost in the stories if I hadn't taken the massive amount of time and effort to read about comics online. I now have the common knowledge of every other comic book geek (which exceeds most non fans). It was a lot of work though... I learned not only about individual characters and their histories, but about the history of the industry.

P.S Goth kids love Alan Moor, he’s the Tim Burton of comics too them.

Good post. It seems that the tired stigma of comics being for kids still prevails. Of course we all knew and discussed this, but hearing it straight from the horses mouth is disheartening. There's obviously a solution here since it's a problem, but the industry hasn't figured it out yet. The early 90s was huge with million sellers, but now we're in a decline. After thinking this subject over a little I'm thinking that Image dropped the ball a little bit. Earlier I posted that we don't have any new heroes, and thinking back to the 90s those heroes were primed to take the limelight form the older ones. Spawn was HUGE, and the Image titles sold well. It's unfortunate that they were one trick ponies. After the cool covers people began to see them for the flash in the pan they were. If Spawn was written and developed better, he'd be an icon of us 80s babies. Of course The Maxx was a great title, but that never was going to be mainstream anyway. Spawn should've taken charge, and he should've had The Darkness, Witchblade(without the ridiculous sexist armor), Deadpool, Nightwing, and Static with him. After finishing the entire Static volume this week I felt sad. He could've really been this age's Spider-man if Milestone stayed afloat. That title was pure gold.


On a side note, I got visions of Deadpool terrorizing the snot nosed preppy girl when you wrote about her. I could see him saying something like, "Oh I'm something stupid for kids huh?" and then he'd just follow her around all day making her cry.

 

[Drakon]

"Chimichanga, Chimichanga, Chimichanga, Chimichanga, Chimichanga..........................."

 

[The Overlord]

Here's the thing, the format of comics is outdated, print is slowly dying anyway, even newspapers are in danger of going out of business. The format is dying the character concepts of superheroes reminds strong, that's what really matters. People aren't willing to pick an Iron Man comic, but the Iron Man movie will make several millions of dollars.

 

[Johnny Drama]

Video Games are the biggest factor. Look at the 80's and 90's, as video games became more and more popular, comics died. By 1999 most grocery stores and gas stations had stopped selling comics.

 

[Drakon]

Here's the thing, the format of comics is outdated, print is slowly dying anyway, even newspapers are in danger of going out of business. The format is dying the character concepts of superheroes reminds strong, that's what really matters. People aren't willing to pick an Iron Man comic, but the Iron Man movie will make several millions of dollars.

Well, yeah, print is dying. But even where print is dying, online media is skyrocketing. With the "anyone can be famous" mentality of the internet, all it takes is an hour and some cash for a server to have your own blogsite, or webcomic. I'm living, hopping proof of that.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

I wanna chime in on the retcons an' continuity argument.

When I started readin' comics, it was 1991. By this time, all the books I got were in their 2s, 3s even 400s. And yes, some things confused me. I had mistaken knowledged about some characters that got cleared up down the line. Fer instance, from Uncanny #303, havin' NOT followed Uncanny until that point, I thought through the flashbacks that Arcade was responsible fer Illyana endin' up in Limbo and advanced aged. Naturally, I learned better as I built up my comic library.

My point is, I came in on books with already 30 years of history behind them, makin' references an' using characters I had absolutely no clue about...and yet I kept readin'. I kept readin', I kept collecting, and eventually I KNEW what those stories were about. So why is it kids today are so intimidated by continuity? Why is it such a hinderance? Why was I able to come into comics cold and still get hooked but they can't?

Admittedly, some modern comics make it difficult. DC comics, fer example, I came into readin' off the cartoons. I was lost as all hell because they make no effort to recap anythin'. Marvel, their recaps are decent, but sometimes insufficient. The one thing I miss most about comic writin' are the recaps given durin' the run of the story. So, even if you DID miss an issue, ya knew exactly what was what.

 

[Drakon]

I wanna chime in on the retcons an' continuity argument.

When I started readin' comics, it was 1991. By this time, all the books I got were in their 2s, 3s even 400s. And yes, some things confused me. I had mistaken knowledged about some characters that got cleared up down the line. Fer instance, from Uncanny #303, havin' NOT followed Uncanny until that point, I thought through the flashbacks that Arcade was responsible fer Illyana endin' up in Limbo and advanced aged. Naturally, I learned better as I built up my comic library.

My point is, I came in on books with already 30 years of history behind them, makin' references an' using characters I had absolutely no clue about...and yet I kept readin'. I kept readin', I kept collecting, and eventually I KNEW what those stories were about. So why is it kids today are so intimidated by continuity? Why is it such a hinderance? Why was I able to come into comics cold and still get hooked but they can't?

Admittedly, some modern comics make it difficult. DC comics, fer example, I came into readin' off the cartoons. I was lost as all hell because they make no effort to recap anythin'. Marvel, their recaps are decent, but sometimes insufficient. The one thing I miss most about comic writin' are the recaps given durin' the run of the story. So, even if you DID miss an issue, ya knew exactly what was what.

Nobody today wants to spend much time on anything anymore. We want what we want, and then we go on to the next. If we have to research to know what's going on, then our time is better spent elsewhere.

 

[The Overlord]

I wanna chime in on the retcons an' continuity argument.

When I started readin' comics, it was 1991. By this time, all the books I got were in their 2s, 3s even 400s. And yes, some things confused me. I had mistaken knowledged about some characters that got cleared up down the line. Fer instance, from Uncanny #303, havin' NOT followed Uncanny until that point, I thought through the flashbacks that Arcade was responsible fer Illyana endin' up in Limbo and advanced aged. Naturally, I learned better as I built up my comic library.

My point is, I came in on books with already 30 years of history behind them, makin' references an' using characters I had absolutely no clue about...and yet I kept readin'. I kept readin', I kept collecting, and eventually I KNEW what those stories were about. So why is it kids today are so intimidated by continuity? Why is it such a hinderance? Why was I able to come into comics cold and still get hooked but they can't?

Admittedly, some modern comics make it difficult. DC comics, fer example, I came into readin' off the cartoons. I was lost as all hell because they make no effort to recap anythin'. Marvel, their recaps are decent, but sometimes insufficient. The one thing I miss most about comic writin' are the recaps given durin' the run of the story. So, even if you DID miss an issue, ya knew exactly what was what.

Its not 1991 anymore though, kids have way more entertainment options nowadays, you have compete with myspace and video games nowadays. Kids aren't going to want to research all this back story just to be entertained.

 

[E-Man]

I wanna chime in on the retcons an' continuity argument.

When I started readin' comics, it was 1991. By this time, all the books I got were in their 2s, 3s even 400s. And yes, some things confused me. I had mistaken knowledged about some characters that got cleared up down the line. Fer instance, from Uncanny #303, havin' NOT followed Uncanny until that point, I thought through the flashbacks that Arcade was responsible fer Illyana endin' up in Limbo and advanced aged. Naturally, I learned better as I built up my comic library.

My point is, I came in on books with already 30 years of history behind them, makin' references an' using characters I had absolutely no clue about...and yet I kept readin'. I kept readin', I kept collecting, and eventually I KNEW what those stories were about. So why is it kids today are so intimidated by continuity? Why is it such a hinderance? Why was I able to come into comics cold and still get hooked but they can't?

Admittedly, some modern comics make it difficult. DC comics, fer example, I came into readin' off the cartoons. I was lost as all hell because they make no effort to recap anythin'. Marvel, their recaps are decent, but sometimes insufficient. The one thing I miss most about comic writin' are the recaps given durin' the run of the story. So, even if you DID miss an issue, ya knew exactly what was what.

I feel you on this post. Retconning only creates a bigger problem down the line. You can't just keep changing characters history if you expect to have long term fans. It eventually becomes a big mess of history that alot of people wouldn't want to deal with. It also takes away from the impact of the characters history. My outlook on some of these "big stories" is usually negative. Why should I care about what happens in Civil War if I feel that the events will eventually be retconned? Why should I care about Batman R.I.P.since I know good and well that Bruce Wayne will comeback as Batman anyway? The companies need to focus on great stories, and not making "shocking changes." One More Day is a big example. If the powers that be wanted Pete and MJ split that bad, then why didn't they just have a divorce? Seeing Pete deal with a divorce in addition to being Spider-man would be a helluva lot more impactful than the Mephisto crap. If they split them up that way I would've actually started buying current Spidey again instead of gauging my interest from trades.That is a classic example of what's wrong wit the direction of comics now. Shock and awe is what kept Image from taking over. It is a limited form of storytelling that has no long term future.

 

[Chris Wallace]

I am so in agreement with you, E-Man, it's not even funny.

 

[Addendum]

With all the retconning and truckloads of continuity, that's why I stick with Vertigo. The stories are self-contained, the backstory that happened prior to the first issue is filled in as the story progresses, and there's no retcons at all.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Vertigo characters do nothing for me, though. At least for the most part.

 

[E-Man]

With all the retconning and truckloads of continuity, that's why I stick with Vertigo. The stories are self-contained, the backstory that happened prior to the first issue is filled in as the story progresses, and there's no retcons at all.

You're absolutely right about that. I'm not a big fan of Vertigo, but they seem to keep their stories from going out of control with 50 universes of continuity. That's what baffled me with the X-titles. How many different versions of the future and parallel universes are we going to see? And speaking of Vertigo, the Papa Midnite series was amazing. I also liked Fables too. They've got some good titles for older readers.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Where in the hell did I say people HAD to go research stuff? I said the stuff eventually got FILLED IN as I read. I didn't research anything...hell, I couldn't, there wasn't an internet as we know it until 1992. There was no Wikipedia. No Marvel.com. No Superhero Hype. My "research" was all readin'.

And events, I ain't a fan of events. Shock value, like ya said, don't mean squat if all ya do is keep shockin'.

 

[The Overlord]

Where in the hell did I say people HAD to go research stuff? I said the stuff eventually got FILLED IN as I read. I didn't research anything...hell, I couldn't, there wasn't an internet as we know it until 1992. There was no Wikipedia. No Marvel.com. No Superhero Hype. My "research" was all readin'.

And events, I ain't a fan of events. Shock value, like ya said, don't mean squat if all ya do is keep shockin'.

Well kids today aren't going to want wait for stuff to get filled in nowadays, they will play video games or go on Myspace instead. Things are way more fast paced now the in 91, if entertainment doesn't deliver the goods right away, then kids will just do something else.

 

[Drakon]

To be fair, sometimes, they will check it out. For example, I was always really light on my "Hulk" knowledge. So, I got bored and wired one night, and read all the Wiki entries relating to Hulk.

Granted, that's the exception and not the rule, but hey.

 

[simplysuperhero]

Well, yeah, print is dying. But even where print is dying, online media is skyrocketing. With the "anyone can be famous" mentality of the internet, all it takes is an hour and some cash for a server to have your own blogsite, or webcomic. I'm living, hopping proof of that.

Yes, print is dying. It's dreadful and exciting at the same time. No longer are comics going to be as appealing as they once were thanks to the computer screen (and soon our cellphone screen). But on the flipside now that we can create our own blogsite or webcomic, we can give it a go ourselves which is damn exciting.

Throughout US history, our technology has always been one step ahead of our culture accepting the newest "it" - standard time, the light bulb, the automobile, the computer, the word processor, web 2.0, etc.

Keep in mind while we claw at the past there's a lot around us to sink our teeth into.

 

[SoulManX]

I did a presentation on comics in a media studies class once. I asked the class who saw "X-men", "Spider-man","Blade", "Batman", "TMNT" ect. And nearly everyone had their hand up each time, everyone had it up at least once. Then I asked "Did you like those movies?" and got a mixed murmur of replies, mini reviews. Then I asked "Who watched cartoons based on these characters? Everyone pretty much had, then video games and again nearly every hand was up.
I then asked "Now how many of you read the comics these things are based off of?" and no one had, one girl (a real snotty prep) chimed in with "Their stupid and for kids."
So I naturally brought up things like "Maus", "Watchmen" and "Punisher MAX". I questioned "How can you all love the movies or the games but avoid the ****ING SORCE of these things like its a plague?! Movies never excide the novel, we've discussed this in this class many times, why do you think thats any different for comics?"
"Comics arn't like novels, theirs no skill in the writing if theres pictures" (preppy ***** again)
"More emotion and depth can be conveyed in a 23 page comics then is conveyed in a 200 page novel. Comics are a fusion of arts, literature and graphic arts/fine arts. You've already told me you've never read a comic, so all you have as a base is a stereotype."
Anyway, I made her look stupid in the end, but that is the problem, people don't GET comic books. They only see the main stream (and they love the mainstream in every form but its original for some reason).

I grew up in a town with no comic shop, I had to get my comics from the local MAC'S MARTS, then later I got trades from my bookstore. And I'd have been seriously lost in the stories if I hadn't taken the massive amount of time and effort to read about comics online. I now have the common knowledge of every other comic book geek (which exceeds most non fans). It was a lot of work though... I learned not only about individual characters and their histories, but about the history of the industry.

P.S Goth kids love Alan Moor, he’s the Tim Burton of comics too them.

The problem is this country belittles animation and comic books

 

[Manic]

This is why I pass out comics during Halloween. You gotta do like drug dealers, and get 'em hooked with a free sample while they're young. And I don't just hand out one or two comics, either. I'll give a kid an entire 4-6 issue story arc.

 

[Drakon]

This is why I pass out comics during Halloween. You gotta do like drug dealers, and get 'em hooked with a free sample while they're young. And I don't just hand out one or two comics, either. I'll give a kid an entire 4-6 issue story arc.

You are awesome. For many reasons, but for that as well.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Damn I wish I trick or treated at Manics house. Free comics!!!

I'm really liking the discussions in here guys, very interesting.

It annoys me that soooo many people love movies based off comic books. They are truly "the in thing" at the moment. But the actual books still have that stigma attached to them. Like my little cousin loves TDK and Spiderman 2 and all that. But if I give him some of my old Spidey comics he won't touch them. I ask him why, he simply says "I don't like reading". I think that is a big issue, reading is just though of as "uncool" by A LOT of young people. Whether it is a 600 page novel, a news paper or a comic. A youngster would rather just watch Spidey battle Doc Ock in a movie rather than actually have to focus and read a story about it. Very sad.