Daredevil Why Season 3 Should Not Be... SPOILERS

[TheVileOne]

I know a lot of people are going nuts over the end the first season of The Defenders and talking about how it means we are going to see Born Again. But I'm not so sure.

I think it's just another lift from the comics so to speak, and they won't be solely adapting Born Again for next season. Plus, I just don't think the series is in a good place to go that route.

In Born Again, Matt's life falls apart systematically due to the machinations of the Kingpin. And what's it triggered by? It's triggered by Karen Page selling off Matt's secret identity in exchange for a drug fix. Karen is not in that place right now. Quite frankly, the way Karen has been built in the show, I doubt we ever see her go to that place. Not to mention, Born Again is just as much as about Karen hitting rock bottom and rebuilding herself as well.

I think we might see a few lifts and elements from Born Again like we saw at the end of Defenders, but I don't think that means it's time to do that adaptation of the story.

Matt's already lost quite a bit. He no longer has a law office. He has no legal partner. Foggy is on his own and working with a giant law firm now. He and Karen were still apart as of Defenders. It doesn't make much sense to put him through the wringer like that at this point in time. In order to do the Born Again storyline, Matt should be rebuilt more.

Plus, we still haven't even gotten a Bullseye story yet.

 

[Guard82]

I know a lot of people are going nuts over the end the first season of The Defenders and talking about how it means we are going to see Born Again. But I'm not so sure.

I think it's just another lift from the comics so to speak, and they won't be solely adapting Born Again for next season. Plus, I just don't think the series is in a good place to go that route.

In Born Again, Matt's life falls apart systematically due to the machinations of the Kingpin. And what's it triggered by? It's triggered by Karen Page selling off Matt's secret identity in exchange for a drug fix. Karen is not in that place right now. Quite frankly, the way Karen has been built in the show, I doubt we ever see her go to that place. Not to mention, Born Again is just as much as about Karen hitting rock bottom and rebuilding herself as well.

I think we might see a few lifts and elements from Born Again like we saw at the end of Defenders, but I don't think that means it's time to do that adaptation of the story.

Matt's already lost quite a bit. He no longer has a law office. He has no legal partner. Foggy is on his own and working with a giant law firm now. He and Karen were still apart as of Defenders. It doesn't make much sense to put him through the wringer like that at this point in time. In order to do the Born Again storyline, Matt should be rebuilt more.

Plus, we still haven't even gotten a Bullseye story yet.

When it comes to drawing inspiration from the Born Again storyline, I'm sure that the writers for the show are not planning on reproducing the story exactly the way it is written in the Daredevil comics. I'm sure that they are going to tell their own original story which contains certain elements taken from Born Again. The show's version of Born Again will probably unfold in significantly different ways than in the comics. In addition to wanting to adapt the source material, the writers also want to create surprises for us, the viewers, as well.

 

[metaphysician]

I don't really see why anyone would think s3 would be Born Again in the first place. There's literally no setup whatsoever, aside from Fisk starting to have suspicions about Matt Murdoch. On top of that, not only has Matt Murdoch still pretty effectively torched his own life, but he's "dead".

 

[pixen]

Anyone that expects Born Again to play out like in the comics need to realize that it won't happen. They will do what they did with everything else and adapt it and make it their own. So yes, I see Season 3 being a loose adaption of Born Again, in terms of theme and the general idea of it.

 

[TheVileOne]

Very loose maybe.

 

[NealKenneth]

I really think they pulled the cord too soon on some of this stuff. During early Defenders we all knew he was gonna put the suit back on so I just kept thinking "Put it on already!" and obviously he isn't dead at the end of it all.

Should have waited a few more seasons, so we can actually wonder what's up.

 

[pixen]

How many seasons do people think this will run for? Part of me feels like they'll just do 3 but I'd love more.

 

[Whatupman]

Six seasons(and a movie). Season 3: Kingpin getting out of prison and using Bullseye and Typhoid Mary to get his power back in the city and taking revenge on Daredevil. Season 4: Adaptation of Born Again. Season 5: Adaptation of the Bendis Run. Season 6: Adaptation of the Brubaker run.

 

[metaphysician]

Anyone that expects Born Again to play out like in the comics need to realize that it won't happen. They will do what they did with everything else and adapt it and make it their own. So yes, I see Season 3 being a loose adaption of Born Again, in terms of theme and the general idea of it.

The issue is not "loose vs not", the issue is "even the most basic premise of the story does not match with any actual pieces we have yet". Fisk can't tear down Matt's life if he doesn't have one, and currently, he doesn't.

 

[DrCosmic]

So... they can't do Born Again because Matt's life has already fallen apart? So all that's left is for this season to be about Matt getting his life back together? That sounds like a lot of fun, doesn't it? I doubt they'll have Karen strung out and betraying Matt, but I wouldn't be surprised if her world falls apart in some meaningful way. We'll certainly see Kingpin up and out for revenge. Whether that involves Bullseye or Typhoid Mary or both is all optional. Typhoid Mary's thrall could be an interesting sub for heroin for Karen and Bullseye as the 'dark' version of Daredevil seems like a solid aspect of Kingpin absolutely ruining Matt's life.

Y'know, if they have Karen, Typhoid Mary, Matt's Mom and Vanessa Fisk all playing strong solid roles, that'd be really interesting.

 

[TheVileOne]

No Typhoid Mary. It should be Bullseye.

 

[DrCosmic]

I mean... you kinda have to do both, don't you? Bullseye is your Punisher, Typhoid Mary is your Elektra. Or if S1 is your ticket, Bullseye is your Russians and Typhoid Mary is your Nobu. If they were doing Born Again plot point for plot point, Bullseye can't be Nuke AND the Daredevil Impostor AND Karen's stalker can he?

 

[TheVileOne]

No you don't.

 

[metaphysician]

*cough* I still say the best use of Bullseye is not to ape any particular story, but to use Serial Killer tropes with him as the magic serial killer. Just a serial killer who can kill people with thrown paperclips, so you have interesting fights when you actually track him down ( and ordinary cops can't stop him, because even if they do catch him, he just kills them ).

 

[Random490]

Adaptation always have changes specially since tv Daredevil is different and is effected by the other shows. To me the basic premise of Born Again is this: Fisk finds out. It will be very interesting to see how it plays out.

 

[TheVileOne]

Yeah he finds out and makes Matt Murdock's life a living hell and puts it in the toilet. By the end of Defenders, Matt Murdock's life is already kind of in the toilet already.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

He can find a way to force him out of home after finding out he's still alive, and placing two plus two together after reading his files knowing he is in fact the man without fear (imagine if they used that title in the series), and still disbar him after people finding out he isn't dead.

 

[metaphysician]

And it would be dramatically pointless, because it'd still just be "ruining" the life of someone whose life is already pretty thoroughly ruined. Its going through the motions, and worse, in a way that comes off as repetitive.

 

[dmcreif]

And it would be dramatically pointless, because it'd still just be "ruining" the life of someone whose life is already pretty thoroughly ruined. Its going through the motions, and worse, in a way that comes off as repetitive.

It would make more sense to have Matt get a chance to rebuild his life from the events of The Defenders. That would mean at least six episodes for Matt to reestablish ties with Foggy and his relationship with Karen. THEN Fisk comes in and starts ruining things once Matt has had a few months to settle down. That's the best-case scenario I can see for Fisk exacting revenge on Matt by destroying his life.

 

[Whatupman]

If they are gonna do Born Again in season 3, then that would be the best way to do it. But I do think it would be smarter to hold off Born Again to season 4. Have season 3 be about Matt and Fisk rebuilding their lives(Fisk is still in prison after all), while something happens that makes Karen's life fall apart. Imagine if the last scene of season 3 would be of a desperate, broken and pleading Karen ratting out that Matt is Daredevil to someone. Then we see it's to Fisk, now with a sinister smile on his face. That would get people pumped for season 4.

 

[metaphysician]

I can't see it. We've seen the kind of person Karen is, and I can't see her betraying her friends, no matter what happened to her life. I mean, she could probably be tortured or brainwashed into revealing secrets, but one, that would be a *terrible* story, and two, anybody who knows enough to go to *those* lengths, already knows enough that its kind of irrelevant.

 

[TheVileOne]

Yeah, I highly doubt we ever see Karen going to the depths of where she was in Born Again.

Something else I want to put forth. It's also likely they completely change Born Again and they don't really adapt it in a way that's really familiar at all. Certain elements and similar scenes might get lifted.

But case in point, what happened to Elektra. Like Elektra "died" but it was at the hands of Nobu and not Bullseye. Bullseye has yet to even show up in the TV series at all. Plus all the Black Sky business that was never in the comics.

Remember Stone from the first season? That scene and character were lifted from the comics. However, after the first season, he never showed up again and died offscreen.

He talked about Daredevil being ready when the doors open. The door was to...Shou-Lao's skeleton. Oy.

This is sort of why Defenders ended up being a letdown. The end game for the Hand was lame and so incredibly weak. There should've been some supernatural force or something. Or I dunno, the doors were like some sort of gateway that would've caused K'un L'un to merge with New York and cause mass destruction, or it would've unleashed some demonic entities or creatures or something.

 

[Random490]

There are always changes from the source materials, even if they tried adapting it as 100% accurate as possible there are character choices that just would not fit the characters as the have been written. I'm picturing the way Fisk finds out is that before her death Gao calls Fisk and says "Daredevil's first name is Matthew and he loved a woman named Electra"

But I find it odd that people feel like Murdock needs more of a "life" for Kingpin to tear down. But in the comics all he did was freeze his accounts, frame him for a crime that cause him to loose his law license, and blow up his apartment. All of which still can be done, but imagine what else they could add, making Karen's past, which has been alluded to before, public, Foggy getting an almost lethal shot from Bullseye, the costume getting stolen put on display covered in blood, all culminating in Kingpin being released. It's all about pushing Murdock, making him suffer, and letting him know that at any moment some he cares about will die. Just because he's not actively dating someone or has a law office doesn't mean he doesn't have anything to loose. It's about having that one thing that protected everyone, a mask, taken away and seeing what happens

Yeah, I highly doubt we ever see Karen going to the depths of where she was in Born Again.

Something else I want to put forth. It's also likely they completely change Born Again and they don't really adapt it in a way that's really familiar at all. Certain elements and similar scenes might get lifted.

But case in point, what happened to Elektra. Like Elektra "died" but it was at the hands of Nobu and not Bullseye. Bullseye has yet to even show up in the TV series at all. Plus all the Black Sky business that was never in the comics.

Remember Stone from the first season? He never showed up again and died offscreen.

The guy who died at the beginning of Defender definitely should have been Stone.

 

[TheVileOne]

Yeah instead he was just random dude from the Chaste.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Remember Stone from the first season? That scene and character were lifted from the comics. However, after the first season, he never showed up again and died offscreen.

I have no memory of that one.