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Why Toy Sales Ruined Star Wars

I have NEVER HEARD anybody say that. In real life when I DO talk about Star Wars.

I think most people that I have spoken have said the samething though: they liked the origianls over the prequels. But that's it.

Maybe you hang out with hooligans and rapscallions or something :)
 
Well I was thinking maybe the Empire after the war took control of the cloning facilities or shut them all down on Geonosis. Then they started growing the clones on Coruscant, you know government run cloning. The result is less fantastic as the Geonosian's did, you know budgets and all, and the result is a dumbed down versions of clones from the time of the Clone Wars. They're just mindless obedient clones used to just keep order in the galaxy.

The Sparti ( cloning process ) technology was lost after the Clones wars ( the Emperor of course kept it in Mount Tantis stronghold ). In the OT all Troopers are human recruits. Maybe this was retconned and I'm now wrong, I don't know.
 
Yeah, that's what I thought. The Storm Troopers were human recruits.
 
Well I always assumed they they were clones because they think so robotically, and they are so weak minded. That they are all a lousy shot too.
 
Well I always assumed they they were clones because they think so robotically, and they are so weak minded. That they are all a lousy shot too.

They are grunts, they are here to obey not to think that is the officers job.
The lousy shooter is more a joke than a reality ( in the SW universe ), in ANH Obi Wan even said : "only the stormtrooper are that deadly sharp" ( the Sand Crawler assault ) but when they must shoot at the heroes ( Luke, Han, Leia ) it seems they become blind :)
 
Leia's line about height always made me think Stormtroopers were all a similar height and thus possibly clones.
 
As a kid I never felt bad when the storm troopers got shot because I never thought of them as real people, that there was something robotic about them, inhuman. Their way of talking always sounded mechanical to me, cold. Like a pre programmed response to any given situation.
 
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I have NEVER HEARD anybody say that. In real life when I DO talk about Star Wars.

I think most people that I have spoken have said the samething though: they liked the origianls over the prequels. But that's it.

Maybe you hang out with hooligans and rapscallions or something :)

This will probably but you in a coma, but a friend of mine has never seen Star Wars and never plans to.
 
During an interview with the LA Times, Gary Kurtz, producer of Episodes IV and V, explains why toy sales turned Star Wars into kiddie sci fi...



http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/her...lmmakers-george-lucas-and-gary-kurtz-wer.html

As someone who absolutely loathes the Ewoks and the cheesy ending (ghost of Hayden Christensen :barf:), the ideas presented by Kurtz sound PERFECT. Oh well...

Ah well, I never really liked SW movies to start with. I can watch them all right though. But many of the Lucas' ideas I've heard are really lame. Starting with changing your movies after 20 years. That's like admitting they weren't that good for you. :down
 
. Starting with changing your movies after 20 years. That's like admitting they weren't that good for you. :down

I don't mind most of the changes, except the Anakin with Hayden change and the voice of Boba Fett. (And to a lesser extent that Han shot first).

But the thing that is making many mad is just that, he claims these are the only versions and tries to pretend the Theatricals never existed. After reading the Secret History of Star Wars and some other perspectives other than Lucas Films, it's clear to see that George is kinda jealous, and I think maybe it's gotten worse. It is clear that George came up with a lot of the ideas, but many others helped form them and hold him back from his (not so great ideas). I think that now that George has the power, he's almost in a subtle way kinda spitting in the face of those that helped him all those years ago, and kinda like the alpha male showing that he has all the power now.

To me I think it's fine that he makes the SE (minus the few problems I said earlier) but I think he needs to let go of this ego, and release the theatricals restored.

His excuse of being too expensive is BS. It's Star Wars it will sell a million copies he knows that. He is making some bad excuses to as why he's not releasing the theatrical cuts. I just wish he would.
 
Gary Kurtz is full of it, he is not so perfect either. Starting off Jedi with the rescue of Han solo, only to kill him off rightaway in the middle of the movie, is a fantastically stupid idea, absolutely worse than any of the plot ideas in the prequels.
Wtf is the point in setting up the whole plotline in Empire, with the classic cliffhanger, and then to sit through the Jabba rescue section, only to have the sucker punch of killing him off right afterwards.
I can't get over how stupid that idea is, and not only that, but then to bring it forward as some kind of yardstick by which Sw fell by the wayside because Lucas kb'd it. My mind is blown, boggled and stumpistupified...Lucas knocking that back was not for reasons of toys, he knew that was a dumb idea, and him sticking with a happy ending was absolutely fine.
 
Well Gary aint perfect either, but on Theforce.net some fully talked about the interview more, and apparently the idea of his version of ROTJ was more of a consensus by others that there would be a "sequel" trilogy where the Empire had survived, and continuing the story.

But no not all the ideas of his was great.
 
Gary Kurtz is full of it, he is not so perfect either. Starting off Jedi with the rescue of Han solo, only to kill him off rightaway in the middle of the movie, is a fantastically stupid idea, absolutely worse than any of the plot ideas in the prequels.
Wtf is the point in setting up the whole plotline in Empire, with the classic cliffhanger, and then to sit through the Jabba rescue section, only to have the sucker punch of killing him off right afterwards.
I can't get over how stupid that idea is, and not only that, but then to bring it forward as some kind of yardstick by which Sw fell by the wayside because Lucas kb'd it. My mind is blown, boggled and stumpistupified...Lucas knocking that back was not for reasons of toys, he knew that was a dumb idea, and him sticking with a happy ending was absolutely fine.

Actually it is very Shakespearean. Very tragic and considering Star Wars is a tragedy, it more then fits. Just because you save one's life, doesn't mean they are going to live forever.

Well Gary aint perfect either, but on Theforce.net some fully talked about the interview more, and apparently the idea of his version of ROTJ was more of a consensus by others that there would be a "sequel" trilogy where the Empire had survived, and continuing the story.

But no not all the ideas of his was great.

I think that is a big part of it. I don't think Ford or Fisher wanted much to do with the film and it was only after they were told it would be the end, did they sign on. That changed the direction of the entire film.
 
Actually it is very Shakespearean. Very tragic and considering Star Wars is a tragedy, it more then fits. Just because you save one's life, doesn't mean they are going to live forever.

No, I wouldn't say it was, Shakespeare, from most accounts, was a very good storyteller, that is not good storytelling, it's a sucker punch with absolutely no payoff for all the set ups, why bother with all of that set up and 3yr cliffhanger? So you can tell the audience, 'Em, the lesson of this story is...anyone can die at any time, they can just get hit by a bus when you least expect it, because you didn't expect that did you? A 3yr wait after a cliffhanger, a rescue sequence, and then bam, he's dead.'

Plain bad storytelling, awful, tragic because it is ill conceived, not because they killed the character off.

edit: Now, if it was at the end of the movie, and he gave his life for some pivotal mission, that would not have succeeded had he not given his life...then there would have at least been some kind of dramatic pay off for all those set ups. Depressing, but at least there would have been a point to his rescue, because these are stories, and there are certain things that we expect to give us satisfaction, not sucker punches.
 
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I have NEVER HEARD anybody say that. In real life when I DO talk about Star Wars.

I think most people that I have spoken have said the samething though: they liked the origianls over the prequels. But that's it.

Maybe you hang out with hooligans and rapscallions or something :)

You should consider yourself lucky, then. The popular urban myth is that Empire is the only truly great Star Wars film, and the reason being (according to the myth) is that Lucas was barely involved in its production. It's essentially an easy way for Lucas bashers to recognize ESB's quality while not giving Lucas any credit for it being good and calling him a hack. :doh:
 
bla bla bla.

we all like SW return or the jedi

but this is again another try to bash Lucas. yes he is the devil and Hitler. bohohohoh

He is the devil....:huh:

You should consider yourself lucky, then. The popular urban myth is that Empire is the only truly great Star Wars film, and the reason being (according to the myth) is that Lucas was barely involved in its production. It's essentially an easy way for Lucas bashers to recognize ESB's quality while not giving Lucas any credit for it being good and calling him a hack. :doh:

This is so not true....at all. Most people love A New Hope just as much.

But Lucas is a hack. Or he became one.

This is kinda a rant, but how I feel about the whole GL and SW situation.

There was a teacher that taught Kindergarten at a local school of mine, she was the best, won awards, was praised by all parents. I remember how everyone said she really laid a great ground work of education for the children and did exceptional. I should know too because I had her over two decades ago lol. But I heard later she was transferred to 8th grade for a year, than later high school. And she was terrible, no one liked her, they said she had no idea how to teach. She eventually went back to Kindergarten and again she was perfect.

To me that reminds me of George. George is a superb inventor and idea man. And he can create a whole universe and premise very well, he did it twice almost it seemed with ease. But the funny thing is as it came time to make the characters grow, or the universe expand, he was horrible at it.

I've read lots of things from people especially with the documentary "The People Vs. George Lucas. There are many interesting things in there but one thing I almost will scream at that director that he and many others are dead wrong about. Many try to claim that Star Wars was really a generational thing, and that is why the prequels failed. I just flat out say "wrong." I was born right after ROTJ came out, so I was never part of this nostalgic generation that some try to say. I'm sure for a small percentage of fans, there may be some that are just nostalgic. But I was raised on the OT and loved them to death, and still to this day Star Wars is always a part of my life, just like comics. When the PT came out I was very disappointed, not because it was "not the OT" but simply because they were mediocre movies at best.

I mean example of Batman Begins and The Dark Knight. I remember prior to Begins hoping that they would be at least as good as B89. Well heh, they turned out to me and most people much better. And for most I think nostalgic does not mean anything. It's simply if a films good....it's good.

To me the PT had horrible characters, dialogue, directing, and just over all feel to it. But does that mean I hate it Star Wars now? No. Funny enough most fans I talk to including myself LOVE...JUST LOVE The Clone Wars. A lot of fans, and my friends included seemed to agree that The Clone Wars is vastly superior to the PT. Which does say something to me. So do I hate the PT universe? No. I just think simply the PT movies were poorly made compared to their originals.

Also I love the Thrawn Trilogy, the Jedi Academy trilogy and many of the video games with superb stories. Such as Knights of the Old Republic, Dark Forces, The Force Unleashed. These all had above amazing stories and characters. Thrawn is still one of the best villains ever created.

So to me I can't stand the nostalgic argument, that that's why people hate on the PT. Or just dislike it like I did. To me I think Star Wars has the most amazing potential, but it may need to be "GL free". I think he did great creating the universe, but I think many others have amazing stories and characters to explore in this vast vast universe.

I mean reading The Secret History of Star Wars is actually from many factual sources, and direct people that worked with him. It is clear that Lucas as me and DJ talked before is a great creator, but I think that's where he stops anymore.

To me even with just B class video games or other EU they have done better than the PT, and I would love to see a film trilogy done with no Lucas intervention. I bet it would be great and revitalize it. I mean even something some what based off of the Thrawn series would be amazing.
YES YES YES! This is the BEST post in this thread. Perfect speech.,
 
He is the devil....:huh:



This is so not true....at all. Most people love A New Hope just as much.

But Lucas is a hack. Or he became one.


YES YES YES! This is the BEST post in this thread. Perfect speech.,

I agree with that Lucas is better at creating concepts than actual stories because he gets a bit too safe and conservative when it comes comes to films but I definitely disagree about him being hack in the beginning, though I'm having a hard time not calling him a hack after Prequel trilogies.

And he's not the devil.
 
Sometimes I feel like that ending Kurtz described would have been better overall, and I definitely see where he's coming from regarding toy sales and the quality of the films (Lucas did start to lose it with Jedi). That being said all things considered I'm still content with ROTJ as it is. It ain't perfect and sure could have been better, but I think it holds up to the genius of the first two films. Now the prequels, that's a different story...
 
I agree!

Back in 1983 When I saw ROTJ everyone in the theater went crazy when the Ewoks joined the ground battle everyone loved it!

True! I saw it twice in the theater that summer, the audience went nuts for it - as well as the scene where the one got on the speeder bike.

I don't remember anyone ever having a problem with the Ewoks back then. It just became a 'cool' thing to do on the internet years later. :whatever:
 
Star Wars has always had a broken base. You have the film scholar types who only care about the first movie because it was the most groundbreaking, you have the ones who only really care about Empire Strikes Back, there are the ones who like the original trilogy but not the prequels, you've got the ones who hate the expanded universe, then you've got the ones who generally hate the prequels but think Revenge of the Sith is OK, and then you've got the poor saps like me who just watch the friggin' movies and don't really complain that much. :(
 
bla bla bla.

we all like SW return or the jedi

but this is again another try to bash Lucas. yes he is the devil and Hitler. bohohohoh

THANK you. I'm getting real sick and tired of everyone picking on George Lucas all because of **** that he MAY NOT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR in regards to the prequels! (I blame Roger Christian for those!)
 

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