Endgame Winter Soldier/The White Wolf - Bucky Barnes

[Iceman]

I really hope the tv series with him and Falcon go forward. You'd have me as an obsessive nerd viewer.

As it’s just the 2 of them they will hopefully need to be on top form and combine to make a top fighting unit with their combined double military experience.

 

[HotRodEconomist]

Spoiler

Honestly, my biggest gripe is that Bucky didn't become the new Captain America. They foreshadowed it several times. I know Sam was in the comics, but wasn't Bucky too? It would make the most sense since Bucky has a version of the Super Soldier Serum in him too. Plus, he would want to carry on the torch for his best friend.
Also, at the end, he nudged Sam to go over and talk to old Steve, did he know? Did Cap save/tell Bucky in the past?
They missed a touching opportunity to pass the torch, IMO.

 

[MadVillainy]

Spoiler

Honestly, my biggest gripe is that Bucky didn't become the new Captain America. They foreshadowed it several times. I know Sam was in the comics, but wasn't Bucky too? It would make the most sense since Bucky has a version of the Super Soldier Serum in him too. Plus, he would want to carry on the torch for his best friend.
Also, at the end, he nudged Sam to go over and talk to old Steve, did he know? Did Cap save/tell Bucky in the past?
They missed a touching opportunity to pass the torch, IMO.

Spoiler

When you look what the MCU is doing with diversity, it makes sense they went with Falcon instead of Bucky. Bucky did become Cap in the comics. And yes it makes more sense for Bucky. But the MCU is really moving away from white guys as the leads. That's at least why I think they went with Sam rather than Bucky. I personally think neither of them should've gotten it and Steve would've just replied: The world doesn't need Captain America, just more people like you. Or something of that sort.
I don't think Cap told Bucky in the past, Bucky just knows Steve that well that he knows what Steve would do.

 

[Delwin]

Spoiler

I believe that Steve discussed this as well as his time trip with Bucky, maybe even proposed him to go back. Thus Bucky is not surprised at all...

 

[Spider-Aziz]

The thing I wonder about the most is

Spoiler

Did Rocket Raccoon get his metal arm as he wanted?

 

[HotRodEconomist]

The MCU is mastery at foreshadowing...I was very disappointed this didn't happen.

 

[ironman_rick]

Maybe he is set to be white wolf.....thats why Sam got the $$$$$$$

 

[HotRodEconomist]

Maybe he is set to be white wolf.....thats why Sam got the $$$$$$$

What is the White Wolf storyline? I'm not familiar with it.

 

[ironman_rick]

What is the White Wolf storyline? I'm not familiar with it.

White kid adapted by black panther family...he was kinda of anti-hero. Not sure how that will adapted to MCU.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Spoiler

Very surprised at them not going with the BuckCap story from the comics. On the other hand... This does make more sense in the MCU. It just does. I think this version of Bucky is more than at peace that Cap chose Sam and will be there for him through thick and thin. The issue they will face I think will be that the government doesn't want Sam as Cap. The custody of the shield will be I think the prime focus of the Disney+ show.

 

[Shuri]

Spoiler

Very surprised at them not going with the BuckCap story from the comics. On the other hand... This does make more sense in the MCU. It just does. I think this version of Bucky is more than at peace that Cap chose Sam and will be there for him through thick and thin. The issue they will face I think will be that the government doesn't want Sam as Cap. The custody of the shield will be I think the prime focus of the Disney+ show.

Spoiler

wanted them to go with Bucky too, but I understand why they went with Sam. MCU is trying to be more diverse. And in the end I was okay with it, because it seems like he had a conversation with Steve about it before he left. He knew Steve wasn't coming back. I think he doesn't want it, and might see himself as unworthy of it. I hope they deal with his guilt on the show.

 

[The_Manhunter]

Spoiler

I still don’t understand why Winter Soldier didn’t get it. Should have been him.

 

[CB Fan]

Spoiler

It really isn’t that surprising and my theater cheered like crazy for Falcon getting it. I’d have been fine with either one but even after Black Panther you can see Bucky is still a bit tortured inside. Sam has more personality and a better current connection with the US even after Civil War. In his next appearance I’d like to see Falcon try to deliver “Steve Cap” type speeches and humorously fail each time until he learns to embrace himself as Cap then gives a final speech that blows everyone away.

 

[Fist of Khonshu]

I like the Falcon hero identity and getup a lot, and Sam's talents are using his gadgets and flying.

Spoiler

It's a shame to ditch all that. And switching to the Cap identity should not be a " promotion", I don't know why it's being portrayed like that...unless they are just deadset on making a "Captain African-America"?

Bucky has the same super soldier powers of increased agility and strength and mad hand-to-hand fighting skills that his best friend had, and really should carry on the mantle --if anyone has to.

 

[CaptainWagner]

Spoiler

I still don’t understand why Winter Soldier didn’t get it. Should have been him.

Spoiler

I remain convinced that Bucky never would have been Cap at all in the comics if Steve had actually chosen his heir. Even without the brainwashing, Bucky still has a darkness inside of him. Captain America isn't a set of powers, it's a symbol. And Sam has always been "the man after Steve's own heart".

So while Bucky is a super soldier, Sam has the spirit of Cap. And that's what really matters. We as fans may still think Bucky deserves it, but this is 100% the expected decision from Steve.

 

[Iceman]

Spoiler

I remain convinced that Bucky never would have been Cap at all in the comics if Steve had actually chosen his heir. Even without the brainwashing, Bucky still has a darkness inside of him. Captain America isn't a set of powers, it's a symbol. And Sam has always been "the man after Steve's own heart".

So while Bucky is a super soldier, Sam has the spirit of Cap. And that's what really matters. We as fans may still think Bucky deserves it, but this is 100% the expected decision from Steve.

And in the film it seems that

Spoiler

Bucky totally supported it.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I like the Falcon hero identity and getup a lot, and Sam's talents are using his gadgets and flying.

Spoiler

It's a shame to ditch all that. And switching to the Cap identity should not be a " promotion", I don't know why it's being portrayed like that...unless they are just deadset on making a "Captain African-America"?

Bucky has the same super soldier powers of increased agility and strength and mad hand-to-hand fighting skills that his best friend had, and really should carry on the mantle --if anyone has to.

Spoiler

It's not about abilities. It's about the character. This is an important distinction that gets blurred among comic book fans. The characters on the screen are not one for one mirrors of the characters from the books. There's also the way putting a flesh and blood person up there makes the things that work in the comics often not be as effective embodied in "three dimensions".

Bucky in the comics, the guy that was Caps partner and brother in a myriad of adventures who was then brought into a secret Soviet program to be an assassin is NOT quite all that in the MCU. Neither is Cap. Bucky in the MCU is haunted and has been away from the world. He's dealing with the trauma of being a killer against his will. And he is no longer just the good soldier Steve knew from back in the day. I don't think he would even want to be chosen. Sam on the other hand stuck with Cap after being roped into the story of TWS and through even the government's persecution never left his side. I can see why Cap would look upon him favorably. I think where they are in the MCU if the choice had to be made I get why Steve was written to make the one he did.

That said... I think there's issues with BOTH Bucky or Sam becoming Cap in that in terms of more than surface characterization, Sam and Bucky are a bit thin in my eyes. Bucky is haunted by grief and was Cap's childhood friend... And that's about all we know about him. Sam was a vet of the war in Afghanistan and he lost a partner who was part of an experimental flight suit operation along with him. He's a loyal right hand man to Cap... And that's all we know about him.

I think if there's ambivalence about this passing of the shield it's not about which of these two are filling the shoes of Steve Rogers. It's that Steve Rogers was a pretty well defined guy in the MCU and both of these characters people want to fill in for him are kinda blank pages that we know very little of their personalities or inner life outside of some broad brush strokes that are more boiler plate than striking individual attributes.

 

[Iceman]

I like the Falcon hero identity and getup a lot, and Sam's talents are using his gadgets and flying.

Spoiler

It's a shame to ditch all that. And switching to the Cap identity should not be a " promotion", I don't know why it's being portrayed like that...unless they are just deadset on making a "Captain African-America"?

Bucky has the same super soldier powers of increased agility and strength and mad hand-to-hand fighting skills that his best friend had, and really should carry on the mantle --if anyone has to.

Spoiler

I want him to use his traditional Falcon skills and just incorporate the shield with that.

 

[Fist of Khonshu]

Spoiler

It's not about abilities. It's about the character. This is an important distinction that gets blurred among comic book fans. The characters on the screen are not one for one mirrors of the characters from the books. There's also the way putting a flesh and blood person up there makes the things that work in the comics often not be as effective embodied in "three dimensions".

Bucky in the comics, the guy that was Caps partner and brother in a myriad of adventures who was then brought into a secret Soviet program to be an assassin is NOT quite all that in the MCU. Neither is Cap. Bucky in the MCU is haunted and has been away from the world. He's dealing with the trauma of being a killer against his will. And he is no longer just the good soldier Steve knew from back in the day. I don't think he would even want to be chosen. Sam on the other hand stuck with Cap after being roped into the story of TWS and through even the government's persecution never left his side. I can see why Cap would look upon him favorably. I think where they are in the MCU if the choice had to be made I get why Steve was written to make the one he did.

That said... I think there's issues with BOTH Bucky or Sam becoming Cap in that in terms of more than surface characterization, Sam and Bucky are a bit thin in my eyes. Bucky is haunted by grief and was Cap's childhood friend... And that's about all we know about him. Sam was a vet of the war in Afghanistan and he lost a partner who was part of an experimental flight suit operation along with him. He's a loyal right hand man to Cap... And that's all we know about him.

I think if there's ambivalence about this passing of the shield it's not about which of these two are filling the shoes of Steve Rogers. It's that Steve Rogers was a pretty well defined guy in the MCU and both of these characters people want to fill in for him are kinda blank pages that we know very little of their personalities or inner life outside of some broad brush strokes that are more boiler plate than striking individual attributes.

I appreciate your thoughts, Krypton, but I'm seeing things somewhat differently. I'm well-aware of the differences between the two media. My first superhero film was Superman (1978), though it was really with Batman (1989) and its sequels, and X-Men (2000) and its sequels, that many of us old school readers (I started in '83) had to roll with significant changes from comics to screen, some of those rationalized away with the notion that many things simply don't work in the movie format. And some don't, I agree with this to a certain extent.

However, with the stroke of the pen, the writer can make nearly anything happen, but the producers are calling some of these shots from their own agendas.

Spoiler

The shield most certainly could have been handed to Bucky if they had wanted that. Bucky has been on an arc of redemption and restoration, he knows who he was and where his loyalties lie. Sure, he may still have some issues, but in my opinion that makes him a more interesting and compelling character that we can all relate to because most people in the human race have some issues too. A psychological healing or transformation can be written, also something people experience. It's easier to connect with that emotionally than to an elevated paragon of virtue and purity. You can build drama around internal struggle, it's an opportunity for a writer. There's some mystery in his character which can also be explored.

Abilities at least partially define who or what Captain America is alongside character. The super soldier serum gave Steve the power to uphold the best American values. Sam doesn't have that. If they find a way to empower him in a similar way, it will be easier to roll with this, but what I fear is that Falcon tech will just be moved to a ground assault version. We already have Warmachine (or the new Iron Man?), "Iron Spider", "Iron Panther", and I wouldn't be surprised if Wakanda (recent allies, who are sharing their tech with the world) outfits Sam too. Then we'll essentially have another Black Panther but with a shield. I'm not looking forward to it.

Though I still believe that Bucky is the better option of the two, I can agree that neither are ideal. If I were Feige or some Disney exec pulling strings, Sam would remain the Falcon and they would hold off on Captain America, release their planned sequels on schedule, then reboot Cap along with the entire MCU (X-Men and the Fantastic Four included) in the next decade.

 

[JtheDreamer]

His character was useless in the last two films.

I watched CA:TWS a couple times the past week and I gotta say I miss his badassery - not to mention his look.

 

[henry_9305]

Spoiler

wanted them to go with Bucky too, but I understand why they went with Sam. MCU is trying to be more diverse. And in the end I was okay with it, because it seems like he had a conversation with Steve about it before he left. He knew Steve wasn't coming back. I think he doesn't want it, and might see himself as unworthy of it. I hope they deal with his guilt on the show.

Spoiler

And the line "Don't do anything stupid until I come back" only make sense if Bucky knew about it. I know it is a reference to the first Cap movie, but why would Steve says that if he is coming back in 5 seconds?

 

[Lencho01]

His character was useless in the last two films.

I watched CA:TWS a couple times the past week and I gotta say I miss his badassery - not to mention his look.

It's one of the problems I have with Cap 3 essentially becoming Civil War/Avengers 2.5.

 

[KevTravels]

His character was useless in the last two films.

I watched CA:TWS a couple times the past week and I gotta say I miss his badassery - not to mention his look.

To be fair, most of the characters were kinda useless in Infinity War. No screentime! Though you're right. Bucky had like 5 lines in Infinity War and maybe 6 in this one. I wish he had more, but i'm sure in the show; they'll do him justice.

 

[sueb1863]

Spoiler

Did Sebastian Stan tick off the Russos or something? Bucky got practically NOTHING to do in this movie. He didn't get one big moment, his reappearance was buried with a bunch of others, I think we saw him once firing his gun during the battle and that was it. No lines, no fighting by Steve's side or anything. He only had one very brief scene with Steve at the end and then didn't even get to talk to Old Steve.

After Winter Soldier I thought he'd get a bit more to do.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Spoiler

Did Sebastian Stan tick off the Russos or something? Bucky got practically NOTHING to do in this movie. He didn't get one big moment, his reappearance was buried with a bunch of others, I think we saw him once firing his gun during the battle and that was it. No lines, no fighting by Steve's side or anything. He only had one very brief scene with Steve at the end and then didn't even get to talk to Old Steve.

After Winter Soldier I thought he'd get a bit more to do.

I will be the one to say it... Despite all the plot importance Bucky has had in the MCU he's really an anemic character and always has been. This goes back to TFA. After TWS they added a generic "haunted by my past actions" veneer but even that is thin. If people feel he was underutilized I think they need to come to grips that it's always been that way with him in the MCU.