Wrestling: The Action Soap Opera Thread - - Part 15

[Wheels]

Antman: summer 1999 when smackdown debuted.

first wwf show I ever saw:
Main event of rock n sock connection v. Undertaker and big show in a buried alive match for the tag titles. Triple h interfered to attack rock, and stone cold busted out of the back of the ambulance to whip triple h's ass. I was hooked ever since.

You see I think that where the problem stims from. Because alot of us are old school wrestling fans, and you're the new breed. I've been watching wrestling since 1991, and was hooked from then on, I watched all the wrestling I could. It didn't matter if it was WWF, WCW, NWA, AWA, or a local fed. When I got internet in 1996, I started to become smart to the business and began to learn more about wrestling history. I was 4 when I watched my first wrestling show, which was WM 7.

From what a gather you are much into the "entertainment" aspects, which I enjoy aswell, but I don't need it. If the wrestling is good I watch it.

 

[Metallo]

you're not going to find that these days....these days there are many more options for a guy who may or may not head to the WWE...MMA being the main one

Those guys are out there and some of them ARE willing to commit for a good 10 years (a solid run in WWE) Its just that Vince and his cronies only want a certain type that they want to push...not just the guys who are good hungry and committed.

Remember this generation of wrestlers is the one who grew up in the 80's and 90's watching Hogan and Austin. They should LOVE the WWE far more than the wrestlers of the 80's and past that because the new breed probably has a much stronger nostalgic childhood connection to Vince Jr's WWF/WWE and wanting to be a "WWE Superstar" They were spoon fed Vince's pomp and spectacle approach to wrestling.

They aren't going to last because WWE just wants robots they can control and use them for fodder while they crush their dreams at the same time. So why wouldn't they go to UFC? WWE is driving away as much of its potential talent as MMA is luring in.

Oh, without a doubt. But I think that people are too quick to call out WWE management(Don't get me wrong at ALL. They've screwed up on hidden gems too many times to count.)when the Wrestlers themselves have to take it upon themselves to earn a push. To make the fans listen to them and make the fans tells management who they're really interested in.

Granted, it's certainly harder to do in this PG era. Everyone is on a short leash nowadays, so it's harder to break away and really stand out from the crowd. However, if you can entice the crowd on the mic, they'll eat it up. And if you have the skills in the ring and the charisma, you're set.

Punk has all that and WWE still isn't giving him the push. These days WWE push who they want to because Vince feels he's infallible. He thinks he can TELL the audience what to like. Part of that is him becoming out of touch and part of that is the influence of people like Kevin Dunn, Stephanie McMahon, and John Laurinatus.

The behind the scenes structure UNDER Vince McMahon is very different compared to what it was 10,15, or 20 years ago.

Patterson was a better booker than Stephanie. Jim Ross was better in talent relations than Johnny Ace. The success rates speak for themselves.

The audience has made it pretty loud and clear that they want Jim Ross back but Vince has tried to fight that for as long as he can.

 

[Metallo]

You see I think that where the problem stims from. Because alot of us are old school wrestling fans, and you're the new breed. I've been watching wrestling since 1991, and was hooked from then on, I watched all the wrestling I could. It didn't matter if it was WWF, WCW, NWA, AWA, or a local fed. When I got internet in 1996, I started to become smart to the business and began to learn more about wrestling history. I was 4 when I watched my first wrestling show, which was WM 7.

From what a gather you are much into the "entertainment" aspects, which I enjoy aswell, but I don't need it. If the wrestling is good I watch it.

The in ring aspect IS part of the entertainment part. Vince has conditioned a lot of people to think otherwise which is sad. His typical shame when it comes to wrestling. But in the ring they tell a story and have drama. But some people think its just the promos and talking and the skits are the "entertainment part"

Hogan and Flair told just as much of a story BETWEEN those ropes as they did in front of a microphone. And the guys that know how to do that are (literally) a dying breed so we are stuck with Vince's Saturday Monday Night Live form of wrestling entertainment.

 

[BlackLantern]

You see I think that where the problem stims from. Because alot of us are old school wrestling fans, and you're the new breed. I've been watching wrestling since 1991, and was hooked from then on, I watched all the wrestling I could. It didn't matter if it was WWF, WCW, NWA, AWA, or a local fed. When I got internet in 1996, I started to become smart to the business and began to learn more about wrestling history. I was 4 when I watched my first wrestling show, which was WM 7.

From what a gather you are much into the "entertainment" aspects, which I enjoy aswell, but I don't need it. If the wrestling is good I watch it.

and assume that your opinion trumps anyone else...because you watched Smoky Mountain and NWA a bunch of guys that no one has cared about since 1984

The in ring aspect IS part of the entertainment part. Vince has conditioned a lot of people to think otherwise which is sad. His typical shame when it comes to wrestling. But in the ring they tell a story and have drama. But some people think its just the promos and talking are the "entertainment part"

yup

 

[Wheels]

The in ring aspect IS part of the entertainment part. Vince has conditioned a lot of people to think otherwise which is sad. His typical shame when it comes to wrestling. But in the ring they tell a story and have drama. But some people think its just the promos and talking and the skits are the "entertainment part"

Hogan and Flair told just as much of a story BETWEEN those ropes as they did in front of a microphone. And the guys that know how to do that are (literally) a dying breed so we are stuck with Vince's Saturday Monday Night Live form of wrestling entertainment.

Agreed, that's why I used quotations on the word entertainment.

 

[Metallo]

Agreed, that's why I used quotations on the word entertainment.

yup

Who cares what the audience whats? Vince will just tell us what we want to see. Right, Vince?

Right?

Vince knows everything doesn't he?

 

[Gotham Knight]

Punk has all that and WWE still isn't giving him the push. These days WWE push who they want to because Vince feels he's infallible. He thinks he can TELL the audience what to like. Part of that is him becoming out of touch and part of that is the influence of people like Kevin Dunn, Stephanie McMahon, and John Laurinatus.

The behind the scenes structure UNDER Vince McMahon is very different compared to what it was 10,15, or 20 years ago.

Patterson was a better booker than Stephanie. Jim Ross was better in talent relations than Johnny Ace. The success rates speak for themselves.

The audience has made it pretty loud and clear that they want Jim Ross back but Vince has tried to fight that for as long as he can.

Correction. The reason that Punk's been getting buried lately is because of his own decision to take time to step away from the WWE for a break. They're writing him out of the storyline.

 

[BlackLantern]

Correction. The reason that Punk's been getting buried lately is because of his own decision to take time to step away from the WWE for a break. They're writing him out of the storyline.

same thing they did with Mickie....if there is even a whiff of you not sticking around, the PTB aren't going to do you any favors....nor should they, at least from a business standpoint

why invest time in someone who isn't fully committed and is going to leave?

 

[The Sage]

- If you recall, Ariane Andrews, the first contestant eliminated on Tough Enough, went on twitter shortly thereafter and claimed she received a developmental contract. Now that tweet is no longer available on her account, which means she spoke too soon or was lying.

- There will be a special Tough Enough taping this Thursday at the FCW Arena. The whole cast will be there including Booker T and Trish Stratus.

Credit: PWInsider

http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/n...eletes-Tweet,-Special-Tough-Enough-Taping.htm

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

You see I think that where the problem stims from. Because alot of us are old school wrestling fans, and you're the new breed. I've been watching wrestling since 1991, and was hooked from then on, I watched all the wrestling I could. It didn't matter if it was WWF, WCW, NWA, AWA, or a local fed. When I got internet in 1996, I started to become smart to the business and began to learn more about wrestling history. I was 4 when I watched my first wrestling show, which was WM 7.

From what a gather you are much into the "entertainment" aspects, which I enjoy aswell, but I don't need it. If the wrestling is good I watch it.

I am, I've said it a thousand times and I will say it a thousand more times I'm sure.

Wrestling is ALL ABOUT the entertainment. Yes, the actual wrestling is part of the entertainment, but it is SCRIPTED, CHOREOGRAPHED, and PRE-DETERMINED. How can I possibly get into that from a purely athletic / competitive point of view when there is actual LEGITIMATE forms of fighting competition out there?

Boxing. MMA. UFC. Olympic wrestling. Amateur wrestling. All of that is REAL. Not scripted. Not choreographed. If I want the athletic display, that's what I will watch. Not professional wrestling.

Professional wrestling NEEDS the entertainment factor. It NEEDS the larger than life characters, the glitz, the glamor, the pageantry. Otherwise, why watch athletic competition that you know is scripted and fixed? In order to have any kind of attachment you need the character and the "entertainment" aspect.

If professional wrestling was nothing more than CM Punk v. Daniel Bryan mat classics, I wouldn't watch. Ever. As it is, I already fast forward through matches that don't have any kind of built in storyline.

That's not Vince conditioning me. That's me knowing what I want. I watch NFL, NBA, and MLB for legitimate athletic competition. I watch WWF and TNA for over the top, larger than life, exaggerated characters and spectacle.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

...

 

[Gotham Knight]

- If you recall, Ariane Andrews, the first contestant eliminated on Tough Enough, went on twitter shortly thereafter and claimed she received a developmental contract. Now that tweet is no longer available on her account, which means she spoke too soon or was lying.

- There will be a special Tough Enough taping this Thursday at the FCW Arena. The whole cast will be there including Booker T and Trish Stratus.

Credit: PWInsider

http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/n...eletes-Tweet,-Special-Tough-Enough-Taping.htm

Thanks goodness. I'm not a fan of the whole politics game, but hopefully Austin said something to management.

 

[bullets]

I am, I've said it a thousand times and I will say it a thousand more times I'm sure.

Wrestling is ALL ABOUT the entertainment. Yes, the actual wrestling is part of the entertainment, but it is SCRIPTED, CHOREOGRAPHED, and PRE-DETERMINED. How can I possibly get into that from a purely athletic / competitive point of view when there is actual LEGITIMATE forms of fighting competition out there?

Professional wrestling NEEDS the entertainment factor. It NEEDS the larger than life characters, the glitz, the glamor, the pageantry. Otherwise, why watch athletic competition that you know is scripted and fixed? In order to have any kind of attachment you need the character and the "entertainment" aspect.
.

A storyline can help elevate the importance of a match but lately and in a lot of cases WWE storylines have been ******ed. When someone call wwe writers the 'creative team' it's almost like they are joking.
So If i was to rely on just the 'entertainment' I wouldn't still be watching. Wrestlers can tell a story in the ring and although it's not legitimate it is a craft I value and enjoy.
It's ok to like it for different reasons but that's my take on it.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

A storyline can help elevate the importance of a match but lately and in a lot of cases WWE storylines have been ******ed. When someone call wwe writers the 'creative team' it's almost like they are joking.
So If i was to rely on just the 'entertainment' I wouldn't still be watching. Wrestlers can tell a story in the ring and although it's not legitimate it is a craft I value and enjoy.
It's ok to like it for different reasons but that's my take on it.

I'm not saying it's not a craft to value. But if it didn't have the "entertainment", it wouldn't be anything close to as big as it is. Wrestlemania wouldn't be a million buy PPV. It'd be like martial arts displays. They aren't fights, but some people are into it because they do cool things.

Until I encountered the IWC, I never in my life, from childhood to adulthood, ever met a wrestling fan that didn't watch it for the "entertainment" first, and the wrestling 2nd. That includes people who were watching well before 1999 and the attitude era.

 

[SuperFerret]

What's this IWC I keep hearing about? Is it like some indy fed that's gaining popularity or something?

 

[Heretic]

So far, this PPV is just...not good. So much for the debut of Impact Wrestling. The first match was almost entirely outside interference with some really green wrestling.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Also, I feel I should state this because it seems to be implied about me...

I never once have said Miz is the kind of guy to build the company around. I think he's a main eventer, and I think he's the best talker in the company, but he's not a TOP TOP face of the company kind of guy.

He's not Cena, Rock, Austin, Hogan, or Flair, no, and I never said he was.

To use an analogy... if John Cena is your LeBron James, Randy Orton is your Dwight Howard, and Triple H is your Kobe Bryant... Miz is like the 6th man.

Very important to the success of the team... will get lots of time in his own right, maybe even get starter minutes on occasion if needed, but not the guy you're gonna build your team around.

 

[Project862006]

What's this IWC I keep hearing about? Is it like some indy fed that's gaining popularity or something?

LOL

IWC = internet wrestling community

aka people on this forum

 

[BlackLantern]

LOL

IWC = internet wrestling community

aka people on this forum

no, no, no, no hell no......don't lump us in with those bunch of troglodytes

I define the IWC as the so called "journalists" on various websites who write their little "reviews" and "articles" dissecting the wrestling business as if they could do better....various chuckleheads who claimed to have "trained" and if it wasn't for some random occurence, they would have been huge....or former employees with an ax to grind

they hate everything, except for their indie wrestling darlings who can do no wrong and are basically the professional wrestling equivalent of Ryan Seacrest or Mario Lopez

 

[Wheels]

I'm not saying it's not a craft to value. But if it didn't have the "entertainment", it wouldn't be anything close to as big as it is. Wrestlemania wouldn't be a million buy PPV. It'd be like martial arts displays. They aren't fights, but some people are into it because they do cool things.

Until I encountered the IWC, I never in my life, from childhood to adulthood, ever met a wrestling fan that didn't watch it for the "entertainment" first, and the wrestling 2nd. That includes people who were watching well before 1999 and the attitude era.

I watch it for both. I enjoy well crafted storylines like the stuff from the Michaels/Jericho 2008 feud. I don't like stuff like giants wearing tooth fairy costumes or little people's court. I like promos aswell, but they don't always have to be about jokes and catchphrases to be good. I usually don't enjoy celebrity angles because it takes air time away from the boys and girls in the back.

 

[The Sage]

Thanks goodness. I'm not a fan of the whole politics game, but hopefully Austin said something to management.

Based on what I saw from her in the first Tough Enough episode, I doubt Austin had to say anything...

 

[Heretic]

Fatt Hardy and Wildfat Chris Harris vs Beer Money coming up...

MAN I hope this isn't an America's Most Wanted reunion set-up.

 

[Project862006]

Sage that is the same management that has the bellas as the women's champion/s

 

[BlackLantern]

ugh....did they hit up a buffet before the PPV?

 

[Heretic]

Thats right....in 2011, Tommy Dreamer pinned AJ Styles on PPV.