Wrestling: The Action Soap Opera Thread - - Part 15

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

METALLO ****ing almighty man! When I said "make themselves / get themselves over" I said when they are given a chance, they are going to shine! It doesn't matter if "HBK puts him over" or "Triple H gives him the rub", a guy who is talented will get himself over if given the chance.

Metallo, I'm done. Instead, I'm just going to post this smiley, because that's exactly what talking to you is.

 

[TX85]

TNA posted a few"Impact Wrestling"/"Wrestling Matters"Billboards around Standford CT,Including one a block away from WWE headquarters!!

Here's a confirmation by WWE.com's editor/writer,http://***********/#!/craigtello/status/69040732576555008

That guy's a *****E and possibly a WWE mark!,A billboard doesn't equal that company booking an invasion to WWE and he actually typed"....stop recycling!"as IF WWE was/is and always will be original(especially 100%).

TNA is trying to stick it to WWE too hard and too damn much,I think it's stupid&immature and they need to be there own damn company,"wrestling matters here"that's cool and all But stop trying to rub it in WWE's faces and just focus on your own ****!!!.....But I doubt(I sure hope there not)there actually booking a f'n invasion to go to WWE and protest or something!

 

[Wheels]

Again, I don't think I said that CM Punk doesn't deserve a push. Even when I hated him in SES, I said that he was a credible enough of a star to be in the main event - I just didn't want to see it because at the time, I hated him.

I'm saying that CM Punk isn't the type of guy you build a company around. He might be deserving of a push, he might be deserving of titles, and better than he got treated in the Randy Orton feud, but he's not going to carry a company like a John Cena can.

No one ever said he could. We're just tired of seeing him jobbed out. You're the one saying the way he's been treated is okay because he's not "larger than life".

 

[Colossal Spoons]

Metallo, I'm done. Instead, I'm just going to post this smiley, because that's exactly what talking to you is.

...until next week

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

No one ever said he could. We're just tired of seeing him jobbed out. You're the one saying the way he's been treated is okay because he's not "larger than life".

I've actually stated that I thought the way Punk was treated in the Orton feud was dumb.

Annndd... that's not entirely true. This whole thing started because people were talking about how CM Punk should be the one to end the streak... so yea people are proclaiming CM Punk as a possible face of the company. They have been on here as long as I've been a part of this thread.

 

[Metallo]

Oh my god Metallo, you take everything SO ****ING LITERALLY.

I'm responding to what you typed. I'm not takign anything anyway. Thats what you put on the screen. Sorry I can't read your mind. Not all of us have a crystal ball like you do.

I never said that Owen badmouthed the company. I used Owen's example of insubordination in conjunction with the examples of badmouthing the company because those are the two main examples we are talking about. I wasn't saying that Owen was badmouthing the company. Holy Christ almighty you take everything 140% literal.

Well why would you even talk about someone badmouthing a company if you didn't mean it?

Piper didn't directly badmouth he company and Owen didn't at all and even if he did thats no excuse for WWE's handling of the situation. If he was insuppordinate FIRE him. Don't put him in a dangerous sitiation with so called professionals and tell him its safe.
But I guess thats me "badmothing Vince McMahon. Nevermind Owen we cann't have Vince wrongfully accused now can we?

Also, when have I ignored WWE's wrongdoings? Simply because I'm calling you out on stupid criticisms like the company punishing employees who speak out against it OR OR OR OR OR OR (so you don't get confused that I'm saying particular guys are doing BOTH) punishing employees for insubordination doesn't mean I'm ignoring their wrong doings.

Considering your more concerned with pointing out me supposedly badmouthing Vince McMahon every chance I get than anything accurate about someone supposedly badmouthing the company (which Piper never directly did and Owen didn't do at all) then thats the only thing left that you are talking about. If Piper didn't say "WWE gave these gusy steroids and killed them" and Owen Hart didn't say it then you have no point.

Youre using examples of badmouthign WWE when the two people we are talking about never did or never directly did. So how am I or anyone else attacking Vince when one guy was fired for something he didn't do and another ended up NOT being fired but haveing his life endangered? Piper got fired because Vince KNEW there were some skeletons in WWE's closet and people were taking shots at him and he got overprotective.

I simply don't care to sit and nit pick everything that Vince does or doesn't do in a personal crusade to make him look bad like you do. I am well aware that Vince isn't a saint. I am well aware that Vince does bad ****. It's really not something that I care to take a personal crusade against. You do.

YOo care to sit back and nitpick every critisizm someone levels against WWE and your boy the Miz. Got ya.

You do take a personal crusade when you defending him though. If you didn't you would feel the need to go to such great lenghts to say "so and so was insubbordinate so this should have happened."

Also, for someone who gets mad at me for "assuming" why you like wrestling, I'm getting a little sick of you "assuming" that I just blindly eat up anything WWE "spoon feeds me" "with a smile". And you wonder why I'm quick to slap you with an IWC label? Because you're acting like the typical internet fan that I can't stand - the internet fan that automatically assumes that because someone likes something you don't, they just blindly eat it up and accept anything thrown at them.

I never said YOU assume. I said WWE fanboys. Point out where I used your name at all in that paragraph when talking about that. There you go putting words in my mouth again. But YOU HAVE addressed me directly with your so called assumptions on things and put words in my mouth and labed me and other fans however you see fit.

I know what I like from wrestling, and I know what I don't like, and I point out what I don't like about the current WWE plenty. I've also refrained from the typical TNA bashing that goes on around here (save for a rare occasion where I make a joke) because I don't have the same beef with TNA that most do. I don't think it's great, but I also don't think it's the trainwreck that most do. Of course, on the rare occasion that I do make a joke about TNA (like when I made a joke about the misspelled RVD shirt that said "RDV") you were again quick to go on a rant and point out everything that Vince and WWE does wrong, as if that somehow had ANYTHING to do with the subject at hand. *THAT'S* why I say you're on a personal crusade against Vince, because just like Triple H back in the day, you just can't resist an opportunity to badmouth the guy, even if it has nothing to do with the conversation at hand. You'll force it in there somehow to make it work.

Its called being fair. And this is a WRESTLING board. last time I checked we discussed ALL wrestling. I didn't realize MULTIPLE conversatiosn oor points couldn't be made, master. If your going to make fun of somebody for doing something then everybody is fair game. THATS what I was talking about.

Not much different from someone having an opinion on Triple H and YOU feelign the need to get on your white horse anc complain about it. So what if people here feel the way they do about HHH. Thats their f***in perogative. The same way you can b**** about something.

No different than some people talking about something and you suddenly chiming in to change the subject in an attempt to make it relivant and let us know how GREAT this guy is or how great that guy is or how the Miz is the best in the business. Your opinion and your right to present it.

And Jesus Christ, going back to the Chris Benoit debate, I never said that someone who wasn't "larger than life" couldn't enjoy success. I pointed out guys who were among some of the biggest legends in the WWE, and how they were larger than life. I never said that nobody else could have success. I've even stated on numerous occasions that pure technical wrestlers without much in the way of mic skills or character skills have a place in WWE, it's just not in the main event.

And yet Bret Hart was in the main event and THE top star. Bruno was in the main event and THE top Star. Bob Backlund was in the main event and THE top star.

Chris Benoit was an exception to that rule because he was about the best at what he did in that role, so he got a push to the title and the main event for a period of time. But he was never a TOP headlining guy that you build a company around. He's not a Cena, Rock, Austin, Hogan type of guy.

If Chris Benoit was an exception what does that make Bret Hart?

The Miz won a match in a top program against a top star at Wrestlemania as well, so according to YOUR logic, The Miz IS a big star.

No it makes him a guy who got the top spot at Wrestlemania because manstream publicity keeps Vince up at night like a kid waiting for Christmas morning.

 

[Nemi]

And here is a photo of Stacy Keibler to help diffuse the tension.

 

[Metallo]

METALLO ****ing almighty man! When I said "make themselves / get themselves over" I said when they are given a chance, they are going to shine! It doesn't matter if "HBK puts him over" or "Triple H gives him the rub", a guy who is talented will get himself over if given the chance

Well which is it? Do they get themselves over or are they given a chance? Someone putting someone else over IS giving the new guy a chance.

How long are you gonna waffle back in forth? Or maybe you should just make a clear point to start with...at least until you come up with another excuse when someone presents a point.

Metallo, I'm done. Instead, I'm just going to post this smiley, because that's exactly what talking to you is.

I'll miss you saying something only to come back and change your tune later by saying "thats the way *I* like it so you can't disagree with what I'm saying even though thats clearly not the way you meant it. Its always good for a laugh.

I'm sure you'll say "I'm talking about getting over for me!" even though thats not the way you've been talking before.

...until next week

Yeah he'll chime in when someone complains about The Miz or Triple H.

 

[Metallo]

No one ever said he could. We're just tired of seeing him jobbed out. You're the one saying the way he's been treated is okay because he's not "larger than life".

Its a bullsh** excuse. McIntyre wasn't larger than life and people were jobbing to him. The very example Nell used earlier undoes his whole argument. If being larger than life gets people the push Drew never would have got one.

On the flipside Kevin Nash is larger than life and he was given the uber push and ended up being the worst drawing period in WWE history. Nash WAS the guy you build a company aroudn right? And it almost crumbled around him.

The bare bones of it is Punk is jobbed out because he's not the favorite of upper management. Simple as that. if Vince LIKES a guy they get pushed. If Punk, was given an opportunity and allowed to shine against the top guys maybe he might surprise a few people.

Lashley couldn't talk and he didn't have a bold personality. He had a great body and some athleticism. And Vince was clearly pushing him to the main event on THAT. Not his larger than life personality. Vince clearly though Lashley was the kind of guy you build a company around so he got a push. Its about what Vince wants. Not saying its right or wrong but that is when people get big chances.

Michelle McCool wasn't larger than life but she got a push because management thought highly of her for whatever reason.

If Vince got a wild hair or woke up on the right side of the bed for once and suddenly liked him Punk would be getting a push.

Vince didn't see Austin as a big star at first either but he ended up getting a push because Vince was in such trouble that he couldn't deny that Austin was getting over so he got behind him and began pushing him and he got over more.

If it was about who is larger than life Vince would have given Austin a gimmick a hell of a lot cooler than the ring master.

Austin WAS larger than life. McMahon just didn't see it at first because it wasn't what he wanted.

Its about what MANAGEMENT sees...not always what the on screen talent has or doesn't have.

 

[Wheels]

I've actually stated that I thought the way Punk was treated in the Orton feud was dumb.

Annndd... that's not entirely true. This whole thing started because people were talking about how CM Punk should be the one to end the streak... so yea people are proclaiming CM Punk as a possible face of the company. They have been on here as long as I've been a part of this thread.

You said Punk doesn't deserve any better than what he's been given, because he's not "larger than life". He doesn't have to be the face of the company, but beating Taker could help him alot. He's been jobbed out like crazy. First Rey, then Show, then, Orton. I'm not saying he needs to be THE guy, but he should be treated like a main eventer and not an upper card jobber. He lost all his PPV matches with those guys. Oh, and he was fed to Cena. So basically you're saying Punk deserves to be a jobber.

 

[Gotham Knight]

You said Punk doesn't deserve any better than what he's been given, because he's not "larger than life". He doesn't have to be the face of the company, but beating Taker could help him alot. He's been jobbed out like crazy. First Rey, then Show, then, Orton. I'm not saying he needs to be THE guy, but he should be treated like a main eventer and not an upper card jobber. He lost all his PPV matches with those guys.

In fairness, the reason that's he's been jobbing out in his feud with Orton is because of his own decision to take time off.

 

[BlackLantern]

In fairness, the reason that's he's been jobbing out in his feud with Orton is because of his own decision to take time off.

think of it like this....would your job promote you if you told them you were looking to go elsewhere?

 

[Gotham Knight]

think of it like this....would your job promote you if you told them you were looking to go elsewhere?

I couldn't agree more. They shouldn't bury him as he's still of value and will likely return. But he shouldn't be beating a top star like Orton when he isn't going to be around to use a win like that to propel himself. I wasn't faulting the WWE at all with that post.

 

[Wheels]

In fairness, the reason that's he's been jobbing out in his feud with Orton is because of his own decision to take time off.

He's been jobbing siince WM 26. He doesn't win on PPV, and when he wins on TV It's against some lower card guy.

 

[Gotham Knight]

He's been jobbing siince WM 26. He doesn't win on PPV, and when he wins on TV It's against some lower card guy.

Everyone has ups and downs in the WWE. Not just Punk. I fail to see how a feud with the second top superstar in the WWE and a WrestleMania match with him is not getting treated right. Could they have done more to make him look better? Yes. Did the Miz who was made out to be weak throughout his feud with Cena, get treated right? No.

It's how the company is run.

 

[BlackLantern]

Miz looked like s*** throughout his entire run with the title

 

[venom892]

The thing some people are ignoring about the report if it is even accurate because god knows according to reports Mysterio has been leaving the WWE for threes years now is that another reason Punk wants to take time off is because he feels he hasn't been given his due after putting in a lot of hard work.He carried Smackdown on his back the entire summer of 2009 as it was his promo work that got the fued with jeff hardy hot.Yet he isn't treated like a star. I thought the program with Cena was a way to cement him but in the end that fued which was hotter than either Miz/Cena or Punk/Orton was dropped in favor of those fueds.Had the angle on raw been Punk/Cena/Rock going into Mania imo the event would have even been hotter than it was.

 

[BlackLantern]

The thing some people are ignoring about the report if it is even accurate because god knows according to reports Mysterio has been leaving the WWE for threes years now is that another reason Punk wants to take time off is because he feels he hasn't been given his due after putting in a lot of hard work.He carried Smackdown on his back the entire summer of 2009 as it was his promo work that got the fued with jeff hardy hot.Yet he isn't treated like a star. I thought the program with Cena was a way to cement him but in the end that fued which was hotter than either Miz/Cena or Punk/Orton was dropped in favor of those fueds.Had the angle on raw been Punk/Cena/Rock going into Mania imo the event would have even been hotter than it was.

and that's probably why he's being treated the way he is.....he feels the WWE "owes" him something when in actuality, he's doing the job they are paying him for....and rumors are he is pretty vocal backstage

and Vince doesn't go for that....he expects you to shut your mouth and do your job, and as shown with guys like HBK, HHH, Taker, JBL,Cena, Miz, Orton he rewards loyalty

 

[Wheels]

Everyone has ups and downs in the WWE. Not just Punk. I fail to see how a feud with the second top superstar in the WWE and a WrestleMania match with him is not getting treated right. Could they have done more to make him look better? Yes. Did the Miz who was made out to be weak throughout his feud with Cena, get treated right? No.

It's how the company is run.

Miz should've been booked better aswell. I wonder if he's not "larger than life"? My issue is not the way he's been treated, but Nell's reason for it being okay.

 

[BlackLantern]

its not like the WWE is a democracy or a fair and just environment....its ruled by the whims of a crazy man and his psycho daughter

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

and that's probably why he's being treated the way he is.....he feels the WWE "owes" him something when in actuality, he's doing the job they are paying him for....and rumors are he is pretty vocal backstage

and Vince doesn't go for that....he expects you to shut your mouth and do your job, and as shown with guys like HBK, HHH, Taker, JBL,Cena, Miz, Orton he rewards loyalty

Sounds like any other company to me.

Shut your mouth, do your job, get rewarded.

Run around *****ing about what you "deserve", someone else comes along and takes your place.

 

[Wheels]

its not like the WWE is a democracy or a fair and just environment....its ruled by the whims of a crazy man and his psycho daughter

Exactly. Which is why trying to justify these decisions is stupid.

 

[BlackLantern]

like Nell and I have said, its a workplace like any other, at its base...there are people who get away with murder and there are people who will never get recognized for the hard work they do

the crux of it is, Vince has outlasted most everyone doing things "his way"

 

[Metallo]

Miz looked like s*** throughout his entire run with the title

Be careful...Nell will see you as part of the IWC conspiracy theory group now.

You said Punk doesn't deserve any better than what he's been given, because he's not "larger than life". He doesn't have to be the face of the company, but beating Taker could help him alot. He's been jobbed out like crazy. First Rey, then Show, then, Orton. I'm not saying he needs to be THE guy, but he should be treated like a main eventer and not an upper card jobber. He lost all his PPV matches with those guys. Oh, and he was fed to Cena. So basically you're saying Punk deserves to be a jobber.

Yeah he's been jobbing LONG before reports of him were leaving were makign the rounds.

Punk should be elevated somewhat for the simple fact that if there are no credible villains who is there going to be for Cena and Orton to beat?

think of it like this....would your job promote you if you told them you were looking to go elsewhere?

No...but that doesn't explain the last two years of Punk being used poorly.

Think of it like this...if everybody but Cena and Orton look weak...who is there left to lose to them to make them look good in the end?

Them beating the same people over and over who always look like chumps makes for one predictable show. Its smart BUSINESS to make some decent opposition for the top dogs.

Its not about giving Punk "what he feels he's owned" but helping to make the company product look better.

All the old guys are retired or close to it so pretty soon we are going to have a bunch of nobodies being fed to Cena and rehashing the same old stuff over and over. I don't see how that makes for good television or PPV when viewership has already been stagnant for years and PPV's continue to go down.

The fact that they had to bring in a bunch of part timers and retirees to help Mania draw shows how bad tha tporblem is getting and exactly why they need to develop some new stars to look credible against Cena and Orton.

Are they going to be able to trot out Rock and Austin every year for the next ten years to help get people interested?

and that's probably why he's being treated the way he is.....he feels the WWE "owes" him something when in actuality, he's doing the job they are paying him for....and rumors are he is pretty vocal backstage

and Vince doesn't go for that....he expects you to shut your mouth and do your job, and as shown with guys like HBK, HHH, Taker, JBL,Cena, Miz, Orton he rewards loyalty

He rewards the loyal people he LIKES.

Others he lets work themselves half to death. Why reward someone when you know they'll work hard trying to prove themselves anyway?

He thinks he only needs a handful of guys to draw....and he may be right. Everyone else is fodder and they are paid to be fodder. He also sees someone who shuts their mouth and doesn't speak up for themselves as weak: see John Morrison.

Then again he may have been in line for a major push before he got hurt but its hard to tell.

Point being Vince is a fickle motherf*****

 

[Darkness Falls]

And here is a photo of Stacy Keibler to help diffuse the tension.

good lord