Wrestling

[Super_Ludacris]

The thing is in real life he is a Biker and he fit perfectly into it,it was a transition to a character that he needed in a time filled with Austin,Rock and HHH who were all realistic
Taker shooting things out of his hands and all the supernatural stuff was just to stupid,the attitude area was all about cynical anti gimmick characters
As it stands now his in ring work is solid enough even if he won't job and the entrance is cool but i miss his sarcastic big dog promo's as he never speaks more than line now and i also can't stand the stupid possessing announcers and blowing up rings stuff,i mean logic dictates why wrestle the guy just fry him and pin him lol

But that **** was popular, that's the point. He is one of the most successful gimmick wrestlers in the history of the industry. Because of how he fought it and because people were loving that supernatural stuff. Mark Collaway is known as the Undertaker, nobody wants to see him as just Mark the biker his appeal is lost and the evidence speaks for itself, that gimmick as a biker simply did not last long
The difference is that Austin, Rock and HHH came in with personas that were basically themselves or personas that just plain and boring (When Steve as great as a wrestler as he was was just "Stunning" Steve in WCW or Rock as Rocky Mavia with the fuirty stringy top or when HHH was in WCW for a breif time as Jean Leveq or whatever)
And besides arguing that Taker's promo shoots were over the top and unrealistic is an oxymoron within itself...........IT's WWF/WWE PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING. They always got shoots like that. If you want something else, there's always old WCW/NWA tapes from the 70's

 

[The Batman]

How long have you been watching Wrestling for? That was his persona. That's like changing Spiderman and Superman's costume.

WTF the dude is called the Undertaker and he's rolling out on a bike to some Limp Bizkit/Kid Rock looking like a Mid-Card WCW wreslter from the mid-80's (oh wait that's what Mark Calloway was before he was the Undertaker)

His matches were better? Man as the deadman the Hell in the Cell matches (vs. Homobottom Micheals in 97 for example) and casket matches and buried matches were dope.

Can't shake the architecht of this wrestling ****

the Deadman gimmick=consistent for 16 years
The Biker= Boring after a year

bingo.

The Deadman is what made the undertaker popular in the first place. I bet you if he started his career as biker taker, he wouldnt have lasted long. It was only because after being the mysterious deadman that biker taker was successful. People were interested in seeing the man behind the phenom.

but, during the whole gimmick i kept saying to myself how this guy was not the undertaker. The Undertaker i knew wouldnt have cheesy angles with his wife and DDP, talking about his yard and acting like every other cliche badass character since the attitude era. It was only when Big Evil was a heel that the biker was even remotely entertaining. I find that most people only like taker because he loses to people more, and added like two submission moves to his moveset.

But the Deadman gimmick is just more interesting. The mystique, the entrance, etc. Is excellent. Deadman Taker has excellent psycology. His Character adds, or used to add to the match. Deadman Taker is one of smackdowns biggest stars, so the WWE is doing somehting right

 

[3dman27]

I can't believe how well MNM has progressed since their first match on Smackdown (then again they never were bad or anything)

Has Hardy quit doing the leg drop or was that elbow a one time thing?

wasn't there somethin about nitro ang mercury getting axed

 

[White_Howling]

wasn't there somethin about nitro ang mercury getting axed

I'm praying for that to happen

 

[Hunter Rider]

But that **** was popular, that's the point. He is one of the most successful gimmick wrestlers in the history of the industry. Because of how he fought it and because people were loving that supernatural stuff. Mark Collaway is known as the Undertaker, nobody wants to see him as just Mark the biker his appeal is lost and the evidence speaks for itself, that gimmick as a biker simply did not last long
The difference is that Austin, Rock and HHH came in with personas that were basically themselves or personas that just plain and boring (When Steve as great as a wrestler as he was was just "Stunning" Steve in WCW or Rock as Rocky Mavia with the fuirty stringy top or when HHH was in WCW for a breif time as Jean Leveq or whatever)
And besides arguing that Taker's promo shoots were over the top and unrealistic is an oxymoron within itself...........IT's WWF/WWE PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING. They always got shoots like that. If you want something else, there's always old WCW/NWA tapes from the 70's

You talk about WWE always having stuff like that which is bull****,no one has ever shot lightning out of their hands,possessed ppl,commited hoimicide on PPV and died twice in 3 moths

 

[Super_Ludacris]

You talk about WWE always having stuff like that which is bull****,no one has ever shot lightning out of their hands,possessed ppl,commited hoimicide on PPV and died twice in 3 moths

Not everyone had a gimmick like Taker's but they always had absurb shoots that fitted there characters. Remember when Papa Shango put a curse on the Ultimate Warrior and that green **** started oozing out of his head, or Big Show nearly killing Kurt Angle, Warrior getting thrown in the Snake Pit with real snakes, Macho and Liz having a wedding as a main event etc

 

[KingOfDreams]

pro wrestling is teh fake and teh suk. bye bye now.

 

[Hunter Rider]

bingo.

The Deadman is what made the undertaker popular in the first place. I bet you if he started his career as biker taker, he wouldnt have lasted long. It was only because after being the mysterious deadman that biker taker was successful. People were interested in seeing the man behind the phenom.

but, during the whole gimmick i kept saying to myself how this guy was not the undertaker. The Undertaker i knew wouldnt have cheesy angles with his wife and DDP, talking about his yard and acting like every other cliche badass character since the attitude era. It was only when Big Evil was a heel that the biker was even remotely entertaining. I find that most people only like taker because he loses to people more, and added like two submission moves to his moveset.

But the Deadman gimmick is just more interesting. The mystique, the entrance, etc. Is excellent. Deadman Taker has excellent psycology. His Character adds, or used to add to the match. Deadman Taker is one of smackdowns biggest stars, so the WWE is doing somehting right

Well for the most part we will just have to agree to disagree,when taker first started all his matches bored me,it wasn't until he fought Jake Roberts that i was interested,then with feuds with guys like Gonzalez and Kamala i went back to being uninterested in him and never liked the zombie version
In 96 he picked up with his feud with Foley and opened up a new move set and also started cutting promo's
I have never liked the supernatural; stuff,we all know wrestling is a work but when all the other guys are working in an action movie and where they are cast as men and he is playing a demon with powers it becomes to stupid to care IMO
As he is right now the entrance and all the stuff you guys love is fine with me,it's when he does all that mystical garbage that i just press fast forward,i mean do you all honestly think it's cool when he blows up rings and posses ppl ?

 

[Hunter Rider]

Not everyone had a gimmick like Taker's but they always had absurb shoots that fitted there characters. Remember when Papa Shango put a curse on the Ultimate Warrior and that green **** started oozing out of his head, or Big Show nearly killing Kurt Angle, Warrior getting thrown in the Snake Pit with real snakes, Macho and Liz having a wedding as a main event etc

As i said in my post to Batman Wrestling is a big work and often far fetched as we know but at least all the other guys are acting in the same world
To me if he was just all dark and Gothic then fine but committing murder,dieing and being fried and then coming back,shooting lightning ? that's just to stupid to even right off under "it's wrestling" as an excuse

 

[Sarge 2.0]

You talk about WWE always having stuff like that which is bull****,no one has ever shot lightning out of their hands,possessed ppl,commited hoimicide on PPV and died twice in 3 moths

Well, Paul isn't really "dead", they covered that up pretty quickly.

However, you can't really blame him for the terrible booking near the end of the Orton feud, as it went past Survivor Series...something it wasn't supposed to do. The bookers needed something to do last minute, and they gave us that terrible SD before Armageddon. Taker may have stroke, but he's also a veteran, and I doubt he would have thought that the possesion thing was a good idea.

A little off topic on the current discussion, but here are my thoughts on last nights SD:

Rey/Slyvan: Meh, way to make a bad angle worse, and make Rey's character even more annoying... "I am myself!" Jesus, Rey...the best thing about that was Angles post match "Never say never" spiel.

Helms/Scotty: Who knew Scotty was still so over? I might just be the region, but damn was everybody eating him up last night...that portion where all the cruiserweights came and beat the **** out of Helms was gold, though.

Hardy/Dean: Pretty entertaining showing from Hardy, and it's good to see that his punishment may be over. But it sucks that Animal is his damn partner. They wasted an oppurtunity to bring up Punk, and an oppurtunity to get Hardy an interesting partner that might salvage the WWE tag team division.

JBL w/Finlay vs. Benoit w/Lashley: JBL and Finlay really need to team up more. They're pretty great together,and Finlay is a breath of fresh air. Booker T needs to lay off the caffiene though...the man never shuts up.

Angle w/Taker vs. MNM w/Mark Henry: Very entertaining ME, with some good tension between Angle and Taker. Great build up for NWO.

 

[Sarge 2.0]

pro wrestling is teh fake and teh suk. bye bye now.

And you're being an ignorant jackass. Bye bye.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Well, Paul isn't really "dead", they covered that up pretty quickly.

So it's attempted murder then ? lol seriosuly what was the explantaion again ?

However, you can't really blame him for the terrible booking near the end of the Orton feud, as it went past Survivor Series...something it wasn't supposed to do. The bookers needed something to do last minute, and they gave us that terrible SD before Armageddon. Taker may have stroke, but he's also a veteran, and I doubt he would have thought that the possesion thing was a good idea.

In non of the posts have i blamed him,i blame the idiot soap writers they have that have taken mystique and presence and turned it into B movie horror,as i said if he was doing everythign he is doing right now with all the look and entrance just minus the silliness i would be fine with it

A little off topic on the current discussion, but here are my thoughts on last nights SD:

Rey/Slyvan: Meh, way to make a bad angle worse, and make Rey's character even more annoying... "I am myself!" Jesus, Rey...the best thing about that was Angles post match "Never say never" spiel.

Helms/Scotty: Who knew Scotty was still so over? I might just be the region, but damn was everybody eating him up last night...that portion where all the cruiserweights came and beat the **** out of Helms was gold, though.

Hardy/Dean: Pretty entertaining showing from Hardy, and it's good to see that his punishment may be over. But it sucks that Animal is his damn partner. They wasted an oppurtunity to bring up Punk, and an oppurtunity to get Hardy an interesting partner that might salvage the WWE tag team division.

JBL w/Finlay vs. Benoit w/Lashley: JBL and Finlay really need to team up more. They're pretty great together,and Finlay is a breath of fresh air. Booker T needs to lay off the caffiene though...the man never shuts up.

Angle w/Taker vs. MNM w/Mark Henry: Very entertaining ME, with some good tension between Angle and Taker. Great build up for NWO.

Im digging MNM and i also think that Taker/Kurt should be very good at NWO,their little confrontation was fun last week
Bad news for Hardy his partner is gonna be Tatanka
Someone needs to stop calling Helms finish the shining Wizard as it isnt

 

[Sarge 2.0]

So it's attempted murder then ? lol seriosuly what was the explantaion again ?



In non of the posts have i blamed him,i blame the idiot soap writers they have that have taken mystique and presence and turned it into B movie horror,as i said if he was doing everythign he is doing right now with all the look and entrance just minus the silliness i would be fine with it



Im digging MNM and i also think that Taker/Kurt should be very good at NWO,their little confrontation was fun last week
Bad news for Hardy his partner is gonna be Tatanka
Someone needs to stop calling Helms finish the shining Wizard as it isnt

Yeah, I always thought that the Shining Wizard implied that the opponent was standing, and that it was a knee strike. Either the announcers are blind, or Helms is taking liberties. I also think that Taker should just keep the mystery to him, without all of the lightning and such, as it would make him more intriguing, without sacrificing his dignity. Also,the explanation for Paul was that he was recovered from the cement, but was in critical condition.

 

[Sabretooth]

Like I've said a million times,I am a huge Undertaker mark. I loved his gimmick during the 90's when he feuded with Stone Cold and Mick Foley and Bret Hart and HBK. The Ministry gimmick was just awesome. I didn't accept the Biker gimmick at first but it worked because Mark Calaway was playing himself. I wish he would've evolved past the Biker instead of going back in time to where he first debuted,like where he is right now. His promos are basically the same now,he doesn't have as much personality as he did during Ministry. He's still a good worker,but I realize he'll probably retire in a few years and I kinda wish he'd put more younger guys over. WWE basically put Taker over from the beginning,and he should repay that by putting the other guys over.

 

[3dman27]

maybe the original shining wizar was banned and the wwe let helms use the name for another move

 

[Hunter Rider]

Yeah, I always thought that the Shining Wizard implied that the opponent was standing, and that it was a knee strike. Either the announcers are blind, or Helms is taking liberties. I also think that Taker should just keep the mystery to him, without all of the lightning and such, as it would make him more intriguing, without sacrificing his dignity. Also,the explanation for Paul was that he was recovered from the cement, but was in critical condition.

This is what the Shinning Wizard is supposed to look like when performed by the man that invented it Kenji Mutoh(The Great Muta)

http://www.wrestlingencyclopedia.com/Moves3/Shining%20Wizard.wmv

 

[Sarge 2.0]

This is what the Shinning Wizard is supposed to look like when performed by the man that invented it Kenji Mutoh(The Great Muta)

http://www.wrestlingencyclopedia.com/Moves3/Shining%20Wizard.wmv

Apparently Helm's running enzugiri to a sitting opponent is an accepted variation to the SW. Still doesn't look like it, though.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Apparently Helm's running enzugiri to a sitting opponent is an accepted variation to the SW. Still doesn't look like it, though.

Helms really shouldn't be touching Muta's s*it

 

[Sarge 2.0]

Also, I found the Sting/Taker debate over a DVDR...but before I get to that, I have to say people over there have interesting tastes. They're hailing the Finlay/JBL tag match like its some sort of godsend...it was pretty good, but nowhere near the level they're praising it. Also, the debate is pretty interesting, I've never seen any pre-Crow Sting matches, so I can't really say mutch about his early career. I'll check it out, though.

 

[Sarge 2.0]

Helms really shouldn't be touching Muta's s*it

If they would just unban the damn vertabreaker, everything would be fine. The Vertabreaker would especially fit with his current heel status.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Like I've said a million times,I am a huge Undertaker mark. I loved his gimmick during the 90's when he feuded with Stone Cold and Mick Foley and Bret Hart and HBK. The Ministry gimmick was just awesome. I didn't accept the Biker gimmick at first but it worked because Mark Calaway was playing himself. I wish he would've evolved past the Biker instead of going back in time to where he first debuted,like where he is right now. His promos are basically the same now,he doesn't have as much personality as he did during Ministry. He's still a good worker,but I realize he'll probably retire in a few years and I kinda wish he'd put more younger guys over. WWE basically put Taker over from the beginning,and he should repay that by putting the other guys over.

That's a good way of putting it,Even though he has kept the Biker Taker working style the character has regressed all the way back to the original monosyllabic version as opposed to the better 97/99

 

[Hunter Rider]

If they would just unban the damn vertabreaker, everything would be fine. The Vertabreaker would especially fit with his current heel status.

Agreed and Helms would be more over with that finish,ironic that the guys are banned from doing a move invented by a petite woman

Also, I found the Sting/Taker debate over a DVDR...but before I get to that, I have to say people over there have interesting tastes. They're hailing the Finlay/JBL tag match like its some sort of godsend...it was pretty good, but nowhere near the level they're praising it. Also, the debate is pretty interesting, I've never seen any pre-Crow Sting matches, so I can't really say mutch about his early career. I'll check it out, though.

DVDR has the uber smark crowd without a doubt,Finlay and Regal are god there but they do hate Cena and know ****loads about wrestlign so they are good debate

 

[Sabretooth]

POST WRESTLEMANIA SPOILERS

Spoiler

Based on some match line-ups released for WWE's tour of England, here is where some post-Wrestlemania storylines will be heading.



The John Cena vs. HHH feud will continue.


Edge's feud with Ric Flair will continue.


If Shelton Benjamin wins the IC title, it looks like he will be in a program with RVD.


Mickie James will be working as a heel with Victoria and Candice.


Jamal will be on the main Raw roster.


Kurt Angle will be wrestling Randy Orton and Rey Mysterio in a three-way match. That could be the main event for Wrestlemania.


Chris Benoit will be wrestling Mark Henry with the U.S. title on the line. It looks like Booker T will be losing the belt soon.


MNM will remain as tag champs.


Giant Singh will be called up to the main Smackdown roster and go under the name of "Dalip."


Chavo Guerrero will remain as a babyface on Raw.

source - Wrestling Observer

 

[Sarge 2.0]

POST WRESTLEMANIA SPOILERS

Spoiler

Based on some match line-ups released for WWE's tour of England, here is where some post-Wrestlemania storylines will be heading.



The John Cena vs. HHH feud will continue.


Edge's feud with Ric Flair will continue.


If Shelton Benjamin wins the IC title, it looks like he will be in a program with RVD.


Mickie James will be working as a heel with Victoria and Candice.


Jamal will be on the main Raw roster.


Kurt Angle will be wrestling Randy Orton and Rey Mysterio in a three-way match. That could be the main event for Wrestlemania.


Chris Benoit will be wrestling Mark Henry with the U.S. title on the line. It looks like Booker T will be losing the belt soon.


MNM will remain as tag champs.


Giant Singh will be called up to the main Smackdown roster and go under the name of "Dalip."


Chavo Guerrero will remain as a babyface on Raw.

source - Wrestling Observer

Oh boy, RVD back on the midcard.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Oh boy, RVD back on the midcard.

Not to mention Flair still bagging a big main evet spot and Superman still working the main event

Well at least Jamal is gonna be a singles worker