X-Men and Spider-Man will never join The Avengers - And That's Great!

[DrCosmic]

Everytime I see people say Marvel should have all the characters back, I'm like: "Wow, you guys really don't want to see many Marvel films, do you?"

 

[GRangerPrimeNYC]

They can all share the same universe without having to revert to Marvel Studios, but gah, that's probably too hard to comprehend.

 

[DrCosmic]

It's not hard to comprehend, it just means someone is losing money, and no one's willing to do that.

 

[KangConquers]

It's not hard to comprehend, it just means someone is losing money, and no one's willing to do that.

Yes. I'm also not sure what people think Marvel can do with these characters anyway.

Let's assume Marvel gets the right back to all the Fox and Sony properties in 2020. They would be inheriting an X-Men franchise that had seen 10 or so films, a Spider-Man franchise that had seen 7 films, and a Fantastic 4 franchise that had seen 3-5 films. Fox and Sony are planning to pick these franchises clean of novel material. Marvel would be stuck retelling stories, or adapting obscure, lesser stories.

 

[Panthro]

Yes. I'm also not sure what people think Marvel can do with these characters anyway.

Let's assume Marvel gets the right back to all the Fox and Sony properties in 2020. They would be inheriting an X-Men franchise that had seen 10 or so films, a Spider-Man franchise that had seen 7 films, and a Fantastic 4 franchise that had seen 3-5 films. Fox and Sony are planning to pick these franchises clean of novel material. Marvel would be stuck retelling stories, or adapting obscure, lesser stories.

Or coming up with stories that never existed in the comics.

 

[cherokeesam]

Yes. I'm also not sure what people think Marvel can do with these characters anyway.

Let's assume Marvel gets the right back to all the Fox and Sony properties in 2020. They would be inheriting an X-Men franchise that had seen 10 or so films, a Spider-Man franchise that had seen 7 films, and a Fantastic 4 franchise that had seen 3-5 films. Fox and Sony are planning to pick these franchises clean of novel material. Marvel would be stuck retelling stories, or adapting obscure, lesser stories.

I agree with you, but let's be honest: not even Marvel Studios is averse to rehashing the same old story again and again. Even TIH dug up the basic Hulk vs. Thunderbolt Ross & Army fight just five years after Ang Lee. I have no doubt that, if/when MS gets the rights to Spider-Man, we'll see the umpteenth version of Green Goblin, radioactive spiders, and Uncle Ben taking yet another bullet.

 

[KangConquers]

I agree with you, but let's be honest: not even Marvel Studios is averse to rehashing the same old story again and again. Even TIH dug up the basic Hulk vs. Thunderbolt Ross & Army fight just five years after Ang Lee. I have no doubt that, if/when MS gets the rights to Spider-Man, we'll see the umpteenth version of Green Goblin, radioactive spiders, and Uncle Ben taking yet another bullet.

Well, The Incredible Hulk felt like a natural continuation of Hulk, not a rehash. It picks up where Ang Lee's film left off.

But yes, Uncle Ben probably would take a bullet. ****ing Uncle Ben. Didn't you learn anything from the Sam Raimi films?

 

[DrCosmic]

Yes. I'm also not sure what people think Marvel can do with these characters anyway.

Let's assume Marvel gets the right back to all the Fox and Sony properties in 2020. They would be inheriting an X-Men franchise that had seen 10 or so films, a Spider-Man franchise that had seen 7 films, and a Fantastic 4 franchise that had seen 3-5 films. Fox and Sony are planning to pick these franchises clean of novel material. Marvel would be stuck retelling stories, or adapting obscure, lesser stories.

Indeed. There's no success to be found in doing a slightly better version of something that was popular and still has fans. Unless Marvel is going to blow Fox's X-Men or Sony's Spider-Man out of the water, they shouldn't try.

Unless Fox bombs on FF again, they should leave that alone too.

Or coming up with stories that never existed in the comics.

That's what comics writers do every day. Like the man said, obscure lesser stories. Many of those stories, are rehashes or follow ups to better more famous stories anyway.

Now, one thing I do think would be absolutely frakking awesome is if Spider-Man and X-Men became TV shows for the Marvel Cinematic Universe. That would make me unconscionably happy.

 

[KangConquers]

Indeed. There's no success to be found in doing a slightly better version of something that was popular and still has fans. Unless Marvel is going to blow Fox's X-Men or Sony's Spider-Man out of the water, they shouldn't try.

Unless Fox bombs on FF again, they should leave that alone too.



That's what comics writers do every day. Like the man said, obscure lesser stories. Many of those stories, are rehashes or follow ups to better more famous stories anyway.

Now, one thing I do think would be absolutely frakking awesome is if Spider-Man and X-Men became TV shows for the Marvel Cinematic Universe. That would make me unconscionably happy.

The one advantage Marvel would have with X-Men is Fox's absolute refusal to do a straight adaptation of the X-books, so the stories (and characters) would seem brand new. Still, Fox's Magneto, Professor X, and Wolverine are pretty dead on (other than Hugh Jackman's Hollywood A-lister looks) and those elements would feel incredibly familiar.

 

[DrCosmic]

It's a slight advantage, those elements are pretty huge deals in the X-Universe. To get around them you'd basically have to concentrate on the recent Xavier-light years, the Frank Quietly's and the Joss Whedon's (ironic). So many of the classic stories, from God Loves Man Kills to Age of Apocalypse are being covered just enough so that going back there would be a retread.

 

[KangConquers]

It's a slight advantage, those elements are pretty huge deals in the X-Universe. To get around them you'd basically have to concentrate on the recent Xavier-light years, the Frank Quietly's and the Joss Whedon's (ironic). So many of the classic stories, from God Loves Man Kills to Age of Apocalypse are being covered just enough so that going back there would be a retread.

This conversation has spawned a question in my mind: Where does Marvel go next decade? Will they continue on with solo films for the big 3 Avengers with new actors? I see Guardians of the Galaxy, Doctor Strange, Black Panther etc as enhancing the MCU, but I have a hard time imagining them usurping the big 4 Avengers spot at the center of the MCU.

 

[henzINNIT]

With any luck, Hemsworth and Evans would be open to more after their contracts are up. Ruffallo will still have a few contracted appearances left.

I know Marvel have already said they'd recast, but I'm really not loving that idea.

 

[DrCosmic]

This conversation has spawned a question in my mind: Where does Marvel go next decade? Will they continue on with solo films for the big 3 Avengers with new actors? I see Guardians of the Galaxy, Doctor Strange, Black Panther etc as enhancing the MCU, but I have a hard time imagining them usurping the big 4 Avengers spot at the center of the MCU.

That's interesting. In 5-10 years, Marvel will have the same problem with their own stable, having used the major themes of all the classic stories. I think those characters will still be the heart of the MCU, though. I think other properties will fill out other elements, but those guys keep the focus. I think recasting Iron Man is unavoidable, but keeping Cap and Thor around would be smarter than not.

Edit: I don't like that answer. I have no idea.

 

[Dr. Evil]

This conversation has spawned a question in my mind: Where does Marvel go next decade? Will they continue on with solo films for the big 3 Avengers with new actors? I see Guardians of the Galaxy, Doctor Strange, Black Panther etc as enhancing the MCU, but I have a hard time imagining them usurping the big 4 Avengers spot at the center of the MCU.

In a decade, we will have Monica Rambeau finally in the MCU, to be played by 30 year old Keke Palmer.

 

[Zarex]

That's interesting. In 5-10 years, Marvel will have the same problem with their own stable, having used the major themes of all the classic stories. I think those characters will still be the heart of the MCU, though. I think other properties will fill out other elements, but those guys keep the focus. I think recasting Iron Man is unavoidable, but keeping Cap and Thor around would be smarter than not.

Edit: I don't like that answer. I have no idea.

I think they'll use a combination of recasting and replacing in regards to certain characters.

Iron Man - Rather than recast RDJ's Tony Stark, I think it makes a heck of a lot more sense to put a new character (a long lost son?) into the suit. That could even be the plot of Iron Man 4.

Cap - Marvel could recast Evans, but that would be difficult. Bucky could become Cap, though it probably makes more sense to just replace him his roster spot with the Black Panther. Those two would often trade off appearances in the comics.

Hulk - Lots of options here. I hope Ruffalo sticks around, but Hulk can be recast or replaced with Shulkie.

Thor - It'll be tough to get a more comic book accurate thunder god than Hemsworth, though a wrestler or former pro athlete may fit the bill if Marvel's done with his solo series. Marvel could replace him on the team with another powerhouse like the Vision, Captain Marvel or Hercules.

Though not a classic Avenger, I think that Sony and Marvel will at least enter discussions post 2018 about Spider-Man, perhaps the Mike Morales version, joining the team after Avengers 3 and ASM 4.

 

[KangConquers]

That's interesting. In 5-10 years, Marvel will have the same problem with their own stable, having used the major themes of all the classic stories. I think those characters will still be the heart of the MCU, though. I think other properties will fill out other elements, but those guys keep the focus. I think recasting Iron Man is unavoidable, but keeping Cap and Thor around would be smarter than not.

Edit: I don't like that answer. I have no idea.

Well there are still some major Avengers arcs that are begging for big screen adaptation. Phase 3 will end without us seeing the Kree-Skrull War, The Kang Dynasty, The Masters of Evil, Korvac, or the Civil War.

I know this is just an opinion, but I always considered the Avengers and the "big 4" to be as good of properties as Spider-Man, X-Men and F4, just untapped. There's the same amount of history there, the same amount of major arcs, and distinct characters. it had just never been presented in a way that captivated the mainstream until now. I think the next set of characters (We'll call them the C-listers) represent legitimately weaker properties.

Many Marvel fans were very upset when Guardians of the Galaxy beat more famous characters like Black Panther, Ms. Marvel etc, but the reason for that has always been quite clear to me. Along with the "on-deck" Doctor Strange, The Guardians represent one of the last distinct properties Marvel has left.

Being African doesn't make Black Panther any less of a pastiche of familiar elements. The Warrior prince element of Thor, the political intrigue and powers of Captain America, the genius and wealth of Tony Stark, the anti-Western imperialist message of the first Iron Man film. It's all there.

The Inhumans suffer from the same. It's the outsider story of the X-Men combined with the royal family elements of Thor, down to the scheming evil genius brother as the archrival. Combine that with very few stories where the Inhumans are main characters, and it's hard to imagine the property serving as a lasting franchise.

Ms. Marvel of course, is basically a gender swapped Hal Jordan, very generic superpowers (Flight, super strength, energy projection, etc) a very shallow pool of stories, and a hodgepodge rogues gallery/ supporting cast that is half in the hands of other studios.

Kevin Feige has mentioned in interviews that he puts individuality first, and the idea of bringing something we haven't seen before to the big screen. Eventually we're going to have to settle for something clearly derivative or no new Marvel properties at all.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

spiderman and wolverine not being in avengers is horrible.

if disney had the rights to those characters, you could definitely bet your asses they'd be incorporated into the avengers one way or another

 

[KangConquers]

spiderman and wolverine not being in avengers is horrible.

if disney had the rights to those characters, you could definitely bet your asses they'd be incorporated into the avengers one way or another

Why? They're not Avengers. They're Bendis-vengers, which was Avengers in name only.

They're great characters, but Wolverine belongs in an Avengers film about as much as Captain America belongs in an X-Men film.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Why? They're not Avengers. They're Bendis-vengers, which was Avengers in name only.

They're great characters, but Wolverine belongs in an Avengers film about as much as Captain America belongs in an X-Men film.

that's why i said they'd be incorporated one way or another, maybe not be directly part of the group but they'd definitely be a part of the mcu if they were under disney's umbrella. and even though they weren't in the original group they did end up as avengers at some point did they not?

 

[KangConquers]

that's why i said they'd be incorporated one way or another, maybe not be directly part of the group but they'd definitely be a part of the mcu if they were under disney's umbrella. and even though they weren't in the original group they did end up as avengers at some point did they not?

I always found Wolverine being a member of the X-Men and Avengers ridiculous. I'd be fine with him being an Avenger if he ditched the X-Men, but...who has time to be in two major teams?

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I always found Wolverine being a member of the X-Men and Avengers ridiculous. I'd be fine with him being an Avenger if he ditched the X-Men, but...who has time to be in two major teams?

well i mean... that's how it is in the comics, so it is wat it is. we have our question but the source material tells that he was in both groups at some point.

 

[KangConquers]

well i mean... that's how it is in the comics, so it is wat it is. we have our question but the source material tells that he was in both groups at some point.

But it's stupid and nonsensical. One Man can't be in three teams simultaneously and still manage to have his own solo adventures.

In any event, it's irrelevant. Wolverine will not be a part of the MCU for several years, if ever.

 

[KangConquers]

Not having the film rights to Spider-Man & the X-Men is probably the best thing that ever happened to Marvel - it forced them to dig deeper into their catalog of characters and take chances on them, and now Iron Man, Thor, Captain America & the Avengers brand enjoy a pop culture prominence they didn't have before.

Odds are if Marvel had X-Men, more specifically if they had Wolverine and Spider-Man, it'd be the same situation with DC & WB - milking those properties for all their worth while other characters languish in Development Hell, which is why most DC characters have no relevance in this day & age. Or we'd Wolverine being forced into the Avengers film along with Spider-Man, even though they have no business being Avengers in the first place.

Also, with things the way they are, we're spared the banality of a live action adaptation of Avengers Vs. X-Men. t:

Considering all of the big Avengers are now more popular than Wolverine, and Iron Man is more popular than Spider-Man, I don't think that would happen at all.

 

[Spider-Vader]

Why? They're not Avengers. They're Bendis-vengers, which was Avengers in name only.

They're great characters, but Wolverine belongs in an Avengers film about as much as Captain America belongs in an X-Men film.

Which is why they're still members of the team even though Bendis doesn't do Avengers books anymore?

 

[KangConquers]

Which is why they're still members of the team even though Bendis doesn't do Avengers books anymore?

Wolverine wasn't a part of the first 40 years of Avengers comics, and Spider-Man was a foot note. They're not imperative to the brand.