Zod's plan vs Jor-el's plan.

Discussion in 'Man of Steel' started by Arta, Jun 19, 2013.

  1. Arta Registered

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    OverthinkingIt podcast discussed this subject.
    http://www.overthinkingit.com/2013/06/17/otip-episode-259/
    Krypton stuff starts at 20:12.

    "General Zod's plan is to eradicate the bloodlines of those he finds responsible for Krypton's fate. Everyone else gets relocated to another planet.

    Meanwhile Jor-el's plan kills everybody. And Zod is the villain. :lmao:"
     
  2. ThePhantasm 2 sexy 4 a stormtrooper

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    I don't remember Zod saying he wanted to relocate / evacuate everyone, or that it was even possible...
     
  3. Noach Registered

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    I know I heard something to the extent of Jor El's plans of invading earth and restoring Krypton by using his son. Did he say that he wanted to destroy the living things on earth as well? If so, cool.
     
  4. Anno_Domini Registered

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    Hrm....what?

    1.) When did Jor-El ever mention the idea of invading Earth and restoring Krypton by using Kal-El? Just because he used the Codex on Kal, doesn't mean that was his intention. Most likely the only way to keep the Codex away from Zod. As well as Jor-El's plan is never to destroy everybody. He only stated that the Kryptonians' fate is with the planet since they wanted to mess with Krypton's core in the first place. Jor-El was at least going to give Kal-El hope with him being the first naturally-born Kryptonian in a long time.

    2.) It's not stated Zod was going to eradicate those responsible and relocate the other Kryptonians to another planet. He wanted the Codex and rule with the future generation of Kryptonians, as well as wanting Jor-El to rule by his side as well.

    I swear, some podcasts are worthless when they're only imagining the plots or what have you. That goes with TDKRises as well...more than half of the podcasts I heard regarding the film was towards plots that didn't even exist.
     
  5. Spade Seeking new challengers

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    He gave Clark the codex so that someday he could continue their race. He doesn't say much about destructively terraforming an occupied planet in the process. It's kind of the whole reason why Zod and him don't see eye to eye on much. If that was his plan, he didn't send his son with the World Engines required for it.
     
  6. BH/HHH You Are My World

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    Jor El knows they're doomed that's why he decides its best to let the race live on by getting the codex away with his son.

    Because the Kryptonian's gave up on space travel there isn't an escape route for them. I'm not even sure they thought the Phantom Zone was an option, when the Planet blew up it obviously caused a rift in the Zone allowing Zod & co to escape but reall that was a stroke of luck that they couldn't have even considered.
     
  7. Anno_Domini Registered

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    Wait, wait, why are we saying that Jor-El wanted Kal-El to continue their race? The Codex is inside Kal....how could he continue the race with the Codex in his DNA? Better to just have faith that Kal finds a nice woman and populates that way.
     
  8. Dork Knight Registered

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    Something I don't understand about Jor-El's plan. So the Codex contains all the genetic encoding that predetermines the functions and class of all the people on Krypton right? And Jor-El and Lara are against this idea and want people to have the ability to choose what they want to become. So then, why did Jor-El even bother to save the Codex? If Kal-El is to use the Codex to restore his people, wouldn't it just reinstitute the same system that predetermines people's fates?
     
  9. Spade Seeking new challengers

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    Their species colonized planets. Zod got the supplies for his invasion from those (dead) colonies. Jor-El knew about Earth because of that scout ship. If Zod and his crew could do it, it's not impossible that Superman would eventually take that same scout ship, scrounge up some birthing matrices from the colonies (that he didn't know Zod would eventually pillage), and do just that. A little farfetched? Sure, but Jor-El's whole plan to send his son to another planet in the hopes that nothing would go wrong along the way wasn't bulletproof to begin with, if you want to argue that angle. Zod almost blew the rocket to bits, for one.

    As well, they look like humans...and coincidentally speak perfect Americanized English, despite having their own hieroglyphic alphabet...but they're not humans. In the comics, the prevailing notion is that Superman can't naturally breed with Earth's women. Most of the hybrids in Elseworld stories exploit some super-science caveat so that problem can have a loophole. Not in all of the stories (Kingdom Come's one), but most of them. So betting that Supes would do the McNasty with Lois and continue their race that way isn't completely sound, at least if they follow most comics on that thought.
     
  10. Tra-El Registered

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    The codex is the gene that holds the life preservatives of all Kryptonian life. Once the codex was placed inside Kal's body, the cells of the lifeforms were feeding off of Kal's bloodline.

    The predetermined fate was set-up through Kryptonian-rule, which was why it was off-limits and downright criminal to try to retrieve the codex as kito (the robot) pointed out to Jor-EL. Jor claimed "It doesn't matter anymore, kito. The world's coming to an end."

    Once Jor took the codex from the fusions of Krypton's pods that was preserving the predetermined lifeforms, it glowed red, which I took as being disconnected from the Kryptonic fusion.

    If the day ever came, Jor-EL's plan was to place Krypton's race in Kal's hands and act as a bridge to let their society rule in freedom the way their ancestry did and share two worlds to become the force for good. Allow children the choice to be whoever they wanted to be and dream of becoming something greater...... as Kal-EL had the choice to do.

    I agree with this. The World Engine split in 4's, so Kryptonian Technology still exists and billions of pieces should be shattered and felt all across the South Indian Oceans. At the end, Supes told the military he was from Kansas, so he isn't smashing Government drums if they are trying to find out his identity. They are trying to find out "where he hangs his cape" which means he has another Fortress somewhere unknown.
     
    #10 Tra-El, Jun 19, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2013
  11. ThePhantasm 2 sexy 4 a stormtrooper

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    Jor-El says something in the movie about Kal being sent to grow up with humans so that one day Kryptonians and humans might live side by side. He also tells Zod that Kal is their future that he has held in his hands. I think if Kal wanted to resurrect Kryptonians he could extract the Codex from his blood somehow and get to work, but I think Kal has decided that "Krypton had its chance." Presumably without the genesis chamber in the scout ship (which Kal destroyed) the Codex is useless.
     
  12. dru-zod2501 Registered

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    Jor-El was like the Kryptonian Professor X, he said he dreamed there would be a way for the two races to coexist. Zod was the Magneto who was all "screw humans, let the dominant species rule". Though, when you think about it, both plans seem flawed. Jor hid the Codex in Kal to restart Krypton later, but there's no indication that he knew of any Genesis Chambers present on Earth. Unless there's a plan in place for future sequels Jor's plan would've failed before it began.

    Zod also said he wanted to start anew (maybe he meant on another world, it's not totally clear in dialogue) but he obviously couldn't since space travel was outlawed. Jor's plan almost accomplished Zod's goal for him. If they hadn't been so distrusting of each other, Kal maybe could've persuaded Zod to work together to find another world where they can terraform all they want and leave Earth in peace, Zod wouldn't have needed to kill Kal for the Codex and he wouldn't have to worry about having an asthma attack while mastering those sweet sweet superpowers.
     
  13. dnno1 Registered

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    Zod's plan was to relocate as many people as possible to another planet and start anew, but without the bloodlines that caused the problems on Krypton in the first place. Jor-El's plan was similar only that he was to leave everyone on Krypton to die while his son would be the future. That issue that Jor-El had with Zod's plan was that the General would be the one to pick and choose who would live or die and El felt that this was part of the problem. By sending an innocent child out into the heavens with the hopes that one day, he would make that decision uninfluenced was a better plan. I will have to agree that it was a very complicated situation to deal with in the film, but in truth I would expect anyone in that position to not want to feel that way in real life.
     
  14. Kahran Ramsus Super Moderator

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    I'm unclear on what Jor-El's plan actually was. He says a bunch of nice, fancy words about two worlds co-existing but he never goes into any detail with how that's actually supposed to happen. Crowe delivers it well, but it just seems like lazy writing.

    I liked it better when Jor-El didn't leave Krypton because he was forbidden and unable to, not because he was some suicidal philosopher.
     
  15. death-lord Registered

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    i am glad jor-l wasnt like in the donner films he would have came off as a cheesy godly figure something that should be avoided
     
  16. death-lord Registered

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    to humans not to brainiac or jesus forbid darkseid who are capable of making geniesis devices this will be in my fanfiction
     
  17. TDK010 Registered

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    As far as I remember Jor-El wanted Kal to be "the bridge" between the Kryptonians and humanity. ThePhantasm is right, by infusing the Codex into Kal's blood stream, they could one day potentially be brought back to co-exist with humans on Earth. I loved this particular part of the story and it added to the conflict Kal had with trying to find his purpose in life and with feeling a sense of belonging amongst humanity. This was arguably the most enjoyable thing I took away from the movie on that first showing. Really powerful stuff!
     
  18. godisawesome Registered

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    Well, here's what I remember:

    Jor-El first tries to convince the Council that a)Krypton will blow up, and b) they should voluntarily give him the codex. It's admitted that evacuating the entire planet is impossible and that Jor already intends to secure the Codex with his un-modified son. Other evidence hints the Kryptonians lack any serious space capabilities since the failure of their colonies.

    Zod also desires to secure the codex, so he also believes the majority of Krypton is doomed, regardless of how quickly they can build ships. He desires to modify the codex and perfect it to remove the bureaucracy that has doomed Krypton. So he expects to at least have a few survivors take the codex and restart Krypton, and his dialogue implies he originally intended for that group to include Jor-El, possibly as the main scientist.

    However, neither Jor-El or Zod are aware that there's already a scout ship on Earth. Kara's ship was hijacked off its original course, and Jor and Lara were searching the stars for a suitable landing place for their son at that moment, and despite the issues with Earth's atmosphere, it was the nearest match to their own. So Jor-El does not intend for Clark to be able to artificially create life at all, suggesting the codex must have some basic compatibility with organic life in some fashion in order to preserve Kryptonian DNA, since he was asking for it before Zod started his coup.

    So both probably hoped for a few survivors with the Codex as a viable starting over point, but Zod wants to modify the old structure, while Jor-El wants nature to take its course.

    Presumably, the Bow-Chicka-Wow-Wow course. He and Lara must have come to that conclusion after hours of *intensive* investigation.
     
  19. death-lord Registered

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    maybe im just speculating superman will have a kid again maybe thats the codexs other function maybe thats the bridge this "jason" for the lack of a better name would serve as a bridge
     
  20. Ultimatehero Life is infinite

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    That's kind of what it reminded me of. All these sperm seeds and etc. that we have floating within our own bodies to give to women or to make life. We're carrying lives within us to in that sense.
     
  21. death-lord Registered

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    finally someone gets it
     
  22. Anno_Domini Registered

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    It's not implausible to think Kal-El could do that, but I don't think he just would have, but I suppose Jor-El had the idea that Kal-El could use the Codex in his DNA, who knows. I certainly never thought that.

    Oh yes! I forget about Jor-El saying that while in Zod's ship. But, I think it was only to just give Kal-El that choice if he wanted to or not, not necessarily a plan Jor-El had for his son to do. By the film's end, Kal-El acknowledges that Krypton has its chance, as you said.

    I honestly think that blood they took from Kal-El could still be intact inside the Phantom Zone and could lead to the creation of Snyder's version of Bizarro.
     
  23. death-lord Registered

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    2 words
    JASON RETURNS
     
  24. godisawesome Registered

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    Of course, they also have this handy-dandy intact Kryptonian body lying around as well. Can you say hybrid clone?

    If the Codex does turn out to be some kind of universal genetics key, you could blame Bizarro's destabilization on mixing an adaptive gene pool with a preprogrammed and degraded one.

    And maybe Lex realizing this leads him to try with simpler hybrids between Kal's Codex DNA and human. And presto chango, the Manchurian Superboy can come into play.
     
    #24 godisawesome, Jun 19, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2013
  25. Anno_Domini Registered

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    Are you saying Superman's DNA will find its way out of the Phantom Zone for only Lex to use?

    I was speculating on the DNA being reworked inside the Phantom Zone and that's how Bizarro evolves, from just a strand of DNA because we don't know how the Phantom Zone works...something as simple as that could be possible where ever the PZ is.

    But speaking on Zod, yah, I do think Lex will do something with that body for sure...recently an interviewer brought that up to Goyer and he dodged the question.
     

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