🇮🇷 The Iran Thread II

[Axl Van Sixx]

YAY! What the world needs now is more war.

Seriously, I am so ****ing sick of reading this propaganda against Iran every day in the newspapers. Western politicians say with a straight face that Iran is a major threat to world security, even as it is the U.S. that bombs, invades and occupies countries with impunity, even as Israel already has hundreds of nuclear weapons and Iran has ZERO. Which countries are constantly threatening to invade or bomb which? I think this tells you all you need to know about who the real threat to global security is.

It's depressing as hell to note that all the warmongers, demagogues and charlatans in the media and the political sphere who lied the U.S. into a war of aggression against Iraq in 2003 suffered absolutely no consequences for their actions, but are still safely in their prestigious, influential positions and now beating the drum for war against Iran. This as the U.S. is already at war in approximately half a dozen countries, including Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia, Libya, etc.

Ah, but I'm sure it's okay! After all, we've got that Nobel Peace Prize winner in the Oval Office. As soon as he's done murdering another American citizen without trial, I'm sure President Drone Strike will happily buck the vast power of the military-industrial complex and the conventional wisdom of the ruling class in D.C. and New York. Sure he will!

 

[8wid]

^ 100% agree with this.



On another note, why is there even a special country made for the Jews out of land they haven't occupied for millennia? I understand the Western sympathy for them after World War II and the Holocaust, but weren't they fine once the Nazis had been defeated and Europe was much more democratic after, not counting the Iron Curtain of course. Why couldn't they simply have lived where they had been living and not forced the Palestinian inhabitants in the former Ottoman Empire to share it with them?

 

[NotFadeAway]

You make good points, seriously.....but here is my line of thinking.

- The US and Iran have never gotten along. And they have went after us, i.e. the embassy hostage crisis. We simply cannot let them have nukes, if they do they will use them.

- Israel is why Iran and terrorist cells hate the United States. Take them out of the picture and we MAY not have to worry about terrorists or war anymore.

- I said I wanted it to be a self-contained conflict.

- War is wrong. It shouldn't happen. But this one may NEED to happen, as long as it is quick and doesn't bring anyone else in. For the greater good, let them end this crap right now.

 

[Axl Van Sixx]

The US and Iran have never gotten along. And they have went after us, i.e. the embassy hostage crisis. We simply cannot let them have nukes, if they do they will use them.

Actually, the U.S. and Iran got along merrily during the decades when the brutal, autocratic Shah was in power and served American corporate interests.

I'm not trying to be combative, but are you aware of the history of relations between the U.S. and Iran? The CIA overthrew the democratically-elected Prime Minister of Iran, Mohammad Mosaddegh, in 1953 when they thought he might nationalize the country's oil supply. They replaced him with the Shah, whose brutal rule over the next few decades included torture of dissidents by his notorious secret police, SAVAK. This from the self-declared defenders of "freedom", "democracy" and "human rights".

Given that history, can you understand why Iranians might not have had the most positive opinions of the U.S. by the late 70s? It sucks that a religious fundamentalist government took power, but at the same time, the U.S. then supported Saddam Hussein when he invaded Iran and all through a devastating eight-year war that killed millions of Iranians. Since then, the U.S. has consistently tried to destabilize the country, including by funding terrorist organizations like Jundullah that carried out deadly attacks within the country.

Beyond all that history, I need to ask: on what grounds do you believe that Iran's rulers would use a nuclear weapon if they had one? The mullahs would have to be absolutely insane to do such a thing, because their country would be instantly vaporized by the American and Israeli counterattack. Say what you will about them, but Iran's rulers do not have a death wish.

This may be presumptuous, but my guess is you're thinking of the supposed threats by Ahmadinejad to "wipe Israel off the map." In fact, the actual translation is closer to his expressing his desire for Israel to "vanish from the page of history". In any case, the Supreme Ruler is the one who has ultimate authority in Iran and I doubt that he wants to see his country annihilated. Anybody who says different, IMO, is playing to cultural stereotypes of "irrational Muslim fundamentalists", etc.

As I see it, if a country is being constantly subjected to threats of bombing and invasion, as Iran is daily - why wouldn't they be seeking a nuclear weapon as a defense against such aggression? No doubt the Iranian rulers noticed how the tenor of Western diplomacy towards North Korea changed when Kim got his hands on a nuclear weapon. In such a case, the desire for nukes to protect one's country is actually a very rational outlook. Not that I want any country to obtain nukes, but I can at least understand why they would want one when they're subject to so many constant threats.

 

[Axl Van Sixx]

On another note, why is there even a special country made for the Jews out of land they haven't occupied for millennia? I understand the Western sympathy for them after World War II and the Holocaust, but weren't they fine once the Nazis had been defeated and Europe was much more democratic after, not counting the Iron Curtain of course. Why couldn't they simply have lived where they had been living and not forced the Palestinian inhabitants in the former Ottoman Empire to share it with them?

Zionists had been wanting to establish a Jewish state for decades before World War II, which - given the trend of nationalism at the time - seemed to be a rational response to anti-Semitism. But the Holocaust obviously was a huge accelerator to the idea that Jews needed a home of their own.

Unfortunately, the end result was that Muslims in the Arab world had to pay for the crimes of European anti-Semites, despite the fact that the former had nothing to do with the Holocaust.

 

[8wid]

I agree with Ron Paul though that an Israeli strike on Iran is just a total fallacy being promoted by big business interests in the media, especially religious media. They may want to profit from the military-industrial complex, but too make quicker money in the short term by selling out religious documentaries, books, airtime, speaking engagements for evangelical Christians and too in ratings for advertisers in the nightly news by scaring up the hype that another war in the Middle East may be looming. The best way to depower it is simply not to believe it and to ignore this nonsense.

The same thing happens every time N. Korea makes threats, its the same demonizing done to make a profit and improve ratings.

 

[craigdbfan]

Lets not muddy things up. N. Korea is actually a **** hole while Iran for the most part is one of the better ME countries and the people aren't living anywhere close to the conditions in N.Korea and I mean far from it. Iran is actually quite advanced and I'd even say that economically is doing better than a lot of European countries are.

Not only that but Muslims laws are very loose and women have way more rights than those in any other ME country.

North Korea on the other hand is a very sad and depressing place in which that majority of the population lives in incredibly shoddy conditions which makes Chinese slums look like places of immense wealth. Starvation is common place and people dropping dead isn't anything out of the ordinary. Just to give you an idea.

 

[8wid]

^But North Korea is far from an military threat to the south or the United States, most of this is hyped in their own media and Western corporate media too. It's the second worst run country on the face of the Earth after Somolia.

 

[Thundercrack85]

How is Somalia worse? At least you can leave Somalia.

 

[8wid]

"China will not hesitate to protect Iran even with a third World War" Major General Zhang Zhaozhong

Iran protesters storm UK embassy

 

[NotFadeAway]

Will someone please explain to me why China is loyal to Iran?

 

[Thundercrack85]

Will someone please explain to me why China is loyal to Iran?

It's not loyalty. They want to keep Iran in the game because it's an enemy of their enemy. It keeps America and Europe busy.

Same with North Korea. Just replace Europe with the rest of Asia. The Soviets did the same during the Cold War.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPjxeyG-Ztw
Iran protesters storm UK embassy

*Sigh* always nice to see the government paying cowardly students to stage a protest...

These protests are meant to catch the attention of the media and to draw the eyes of the public AWAY from the other protests (which chant "Down with the Ayatollah" - and hold up non-Islamic Regime flags). Things like this make me angry

 

[8wid]

Will someone please explain to me why China is loyal to Iran?

There are a few economic interests that China wants in Iran, but mostly it's put a check on Western nation building, regime change, and general imperialism because they had been so scorned by it from European empire for centuries in the past. This is a means for them mutually show their support against any unneeded incursion by the West into Iran's internal affairs.

 

[8wid]

War with Iran will be catastrophе

I like how the speaker calls out the US cyberattacks, commercial, sabotage of Iran's peaceful nuclear weapons program, and assassination of government scientists there as terrorists attacks which they are. I would also like to call them acts of war as they should be.

 

[8wid]

Empire: Targeting Iran - Video: Iran war games

 

[DBryan]

Oh yes this is good.

[YT]i49ftenfCcw[/YT]

 

[craigdbfan]

CNN and Irans PressTV are reporting that a US Drone has been shot down in Eastern Iran

Iran's military has shot down an unmanned US aircraft over the east of the country, state TV has reported.

"Iran's military has downed an intruding RQ-170 American drone in eastern Iran," Iran's Arabic-language Al Alam state television network quoted an unnamed military source as saying.
A report on English-language Press TV said the drone was "downed with minimum damage" and seized by Iranian officials.
The RQ-170 Sentinel is an unmanned stealth aircraft used for reconnaissance. It is not designed to carry weapons.
There was no immediate comment on the claims from the US military.

 

[Quetzal]

When it comes down to it, I think Israel will declare war on Iran within a years time. I hope the US doesnt offer much support to it when it comes down to it because we cant afford to be bogged down in such a mess.

Things are getting worse covert operations can only postpone things for so long.

 

[Hobgoblin]

CNN and Irans PressTV are reporting that a US Drone has been shot down in Eastern Iran

I would take this with a grain of salt for the moment. The Iranians also claimed that another drone was shot down in July, then back peddled.

 

[Axl Van Sixx]

This whole drone story reminds me of how I keep reading articles in the newspaper with big alarmist headlines about how Iran is planning to strike U.S. military targets in Europe, Turkey or Israel. Then you read a little further and you see that this is their plan in case they are attacked by the United States or Israel.

No ****! A country will fight back if it's attacked? And yet everyone continues to say with a straight face that IRAN is the aggressor here and this shows how diabolically evil they are. Seriously, Orwell couldn't make this stuff up.

 

[8wid]

All of these Christians and conservatives pushing for a war in Iran should go get some guns and ships of their own and be allowed to march on Tehran if they want to. Why should the whole of the US army go fight a pointless war for more fictitious reasoning about threats of another nonexistent WMDs.

 

[Axl Van Sixx]

All of these Christians and conservatives pushing for a war in Iran should go get some guns and ships of their own and be allowed to march on Tehran if they want to. Why should the whole of the US army go fight a pointless war for more fictitious reasoning about threats of another nonexistent WMDs.

I like the cut of your jib.

 

[The Overlord]

Actually, the U.S. and Iran got along merrily during the decades when the brutal, autocratic Shah was in power and served American corporate interests.

I'm not trying to be combative, but are you aware of the history of relations between the U.S. and Iran? The CIA overthrew the democratically-elected Prime Minister of Iran, Mohammad Mosaddegh, in 1953 when they thought he might nationalize the country's oil supply. They replaced him with the Shah, whose brutal rule over the next few decades included torture of dissidents by his notorious secret police, SAVAK. This from the self-declared defenders of "freedom", "democracy" and "human rights".

Given that history, can you understand why Iranians might not have had the most positive opinions of the U.S. by the late 70s? It sucks that a religious fundamentalist government took power, but at the same time, the U.S. then supported Saddam Hussein when he invaded Iran and all through a devastating eight-year war that killed millions of Iranians. Since then, the U.S. has consistently tried to destabilize the country, including by funding terrorist organizations like Jundullah that carried out deadly attacks within the country.

Beyond all that history, I need to ask: on what grounds do you believe that Iran's rulers would use a nuclear weapon if they had one? The mullahs would have to be absolutely insane to do such a thing, because their country would be instantly vaporized by the American and Israeli counterattack. Say what you will about them, but Iran's rulers do not have a death wish.

Why would I assume that the mullahs in Iran are rational? I don't trust any sort of religious fundamentalists, why make an exception for these guys? I don't like the bellicose talk from conservatives in the US towards Iran, but it takes two to tango, its not like Iran hasn't bellicose as well.

This may be presumptuous, but my guess is you're thinking of the supposed threats by Ahmadinejad to "wipe Israel off the map." In fact, the actual translation is closer to his expressing his desire for Israel to "vanish from the page of history". In any case, the Supreme Ruler is the one who has ultimate authority in Iran and I doubt that he wants to see his country annihilated. Anybody who says different, IMO, is playing to cultural stereotypes of "irrational Muslim fundamentalists", etc.

How exactly is "vanish from the page of history" that much better then "wipe
Israel off the map"? That is still bellicose. Perhaps the Iranian regime believe they should be the ones who should make Israel vanish from the page of history? How this type of language not bellicose? The Iranian regime is extremely reactionary, why should their bellicose talk be forgiven compared to their counterparts in the US? If Iran stopped trying to give the middle finger to the rest of the international community, conservatives in the US would have a lot less ammo to promote a war against that country.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

How incredibly stupid can people be to think that the solution to the issues with Iran is war? Honestly people - the people of the country are restless and want a change of regime - people act like they care and then Michael Jackson dies and no one gives a **** about the protesters anymore.

If Iran goes to war, it will only ensure the strength of its current regime; Iranians will arise to defend the country, regardless of who is running it, and those who don't will be thrown in jail for refuting conscription.

The Islamic Republic knows this and WANTS a war as it will only secure their Regime AND make them (the leaders) rich. The cost of oil alone will skyrocket, and might I remind you that those holding the money couldn't care less if there is a war happening at their country or next door; a check is a check. Things like these "drone" preventions, spitting in the US and Israel's faces, paying a small group of students to burn flags and storm embassies and then tear gassing them themselves, rigging elections, making people sign fake confessions, saying that the virus hitting their plants were made by USA and Israel (when the students of Iranian Universities themselves admitted to it), and multiple other actions made by this diabolical regime are taken to ensure a war; and the media will exaggerate and expose these fallacies for ratings, leading to masses conceding to a "need" for war.

It's completely ridiculous and downright embarrassing.