🇮🇷 The Iran Thread II

Will the United States go to war with Iran in either 2012 or 2013?

  • Yes, definitely.

  • Possibly.

  • I dont know.

  • Probably not.

  • Definitely not.

Results are only viewable after voting.
Marx said:
The Iranian government wasted no time in blaming the US and Israel.
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From Glenn Greenwald's blog:

Does anyone doubt that some combination of the two nations completely obsessed with Iran’s nuclear program — Israel and the U.S. — are responsible? (U.S. officials deny involvement while pointing the finger at Israel, whose officials will not comment but “smile” when asked; the CIA has “targeted” Iran’s scientists in the past, several of whom have disappeared only to end up in U.S. custody, including one who “resurfaced in the United States after defecting to the CIA in return for a large sum of money”). At the very least, there has been no denunciation from any Obama officials of whoever it might be carrying out such acts.
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There's a word for planting bombs and killing civilians in service of political goals: it's called terrorism.
 
I honestly dont think its the CIA... I think its the Mossad.
 
Arc-Light said:
Just imagine what the U.S would be if we were half the evil empire you think we are......your little country wouldn't exist.......just think, and be thankful.
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Resorting to the stale "you hate America!" talking point, eh? :whatever:

The United States is a great country. Americans, by and large, are awesome people, just like people everywhere else. The American government is the problem.

There's a difference between criticizing a government, and criticizing a country and it's people. Even conservatives understand this, with their "I love my country but fear my government" bumper stickers. But I guess those kinds of subtleties are beyond you.
 
Axl Van Sixx said:
Resorting to the stale "you hate America!" talking point, eh? :whatever:

The United States is a great country. Americans, by and large, are awesome people, just like people everywhere else. The American government is the problem.

There's a difference between criticizing a government, and criticizing a country and it's people. Even conservatives understand this, with their "I love my country but fear my government" bumper stickers. But I guess those kinds of subtleties are beyond you.
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Oh well.....you didn't think....:csad:
 
Axl Van Sixx said:
Um, okay.

:huh:
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I think what he is trying to say is your portrayal of the US government as an imperial power is underminded by the fact they haven't conquered Canada, that a truly aggressive imperial power would conquer everything around it.

However there are different types of imperialism. The US is not the Roman Empire, but it is similar to the Athenan Empire which was a democracy and supported local oligarchs in other countries to create client states.

Now the Athenan Empire was hardly the worse political entity in history, the US likewise is far from the worse political entity in history. I just think all their talk of freedom, while being allied with undemocratic governments like the Saudi monarchy rubs people the wrong way.

But I do think some left wingers over emphasis the negatives with US, I don't think its doing anything that different from other countries with power did and I do think there have far worse powerful states in the past. What Belgium did the Congo is worse then what the US has done to other countries. Plus when China becomes the world's super power, its not like the world will become a nice happy place.

Other countries can't just blame the US for their problems, they have take responsibly for their own actions. Sure the US government supporting the Shah was wrong, but the US government is not responsible for the creation of the current Iranian regime. After the revolution in Iran, the Iranians could have created any government they wanted, they choose to create a theocratic regime.
 
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They assassinated the nuclear scientist now that American spy caught recently is going to be definitely executed.
 
The Overlord said:
I think what he is trying to say is your portrayal of the US government as an imperial power is underminded by the fact they haven't conquered Canada, that a truly aggressive imperial power would conquer everything around it.

However there are different types of imperialism. The US is not the Roman Empire, but it is similar to the Athenan Empire which was a democracy and supported local oligarchs in other countries to create client states.

Now the Athenan Empire was hardly the worse political entity in history, the US likewise is far from the worse political entity in history. I just think all their talk of freedom, while being allied with undemocratic governments like the Saudi monarchy rubs people the wrong way.

But I do think some left wingers over emphasis the negatives with US, I don't think its doing anything that different from other countries with power did and I do think there have far worse powerful states in the past. What Belgium did the Congo is worse then what the US has done to other countries. Plus when China becomes the world's super power, its not like the world will become a nice happy place.

Other countries can't just blame the US for their problems, they have take responsibly for their own actions. Sure the US government supporting the Shah was wrong, but the US government is not responsible for the creation of the current Iranian regime. After the revolution in Iran, the Iranians could have created any government they wanted, they choose to create a theocratic regime.
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Now this is a thoughtful, intelligent response.

The American model of imperialism is different from other historical empires in that it does not rest primarily on force, though that is an important part of it. Rather, the U.S. government coerces other countries into acting the way it wants through its dominance over international bodies like the UN, the IMF and the World Bank, and by flexing its economic muscles.

Look at Canada. The main reason the U.S. has such power over our government's actions is not its military might, but its economic strength. The United States is Canada's single largest market, and given that our economy is particularly export-driven, it's important to keep good relations with our southern neighbour. Those political considerations, along with easy profits, is why we keep the Alberta oil flowing across the border.

The reason leftists devote so much anger to the United States is because as the world superpower, its actions have the most impact. If China or Russia were acting in comparable ways, leftists would be criticizing them (as they did when, for example, the USSR invaded Czechoslovakia in '68). This is also why Noam Chomsky explains his focus on American foreign policy - because as an American, he is in a position to do something about the actions of his government. To portray principled criticism of government actions as kneejerk "America-bashing" is just a Republican talking point.

The idea that "countries should take responsibility for their own actions" sounds reasonable on the surface, but it ignores the fact that there are radical differences in opinion among a country's population. Some Iranians wanted a theocratic regime, sure, but others wanted a liberal-democratic, socialist or communist government. 1/3 of the German electorate in the 1930s voted for the Nazis, but that means 2/3 of Germans opposed the Nazis. The country that ended up falling to fascism had the strongest labour movement in Europe at the time, and things very easily could have been different. But to excuse things like the firebombing of Dresden by saying that Germans had to take responsibility for their actions is to say that all Germans were Nazis.

Imagine if a more powerful country invaded the United States, and there were a huge amounts of American civilian casualties. War supporters in the invading nation could easily say, "well, the United States supported Dictatorial Government X and launched an aggressive invasion of Country Y. They're a brutal imperialist government and Americans need to take responsibility for their own country." Such a sweeping statement ignores the fact that most Americans don't vote at all, and of those that vote a huge number do not support the country's aggressive imperialist foreign policy.
 
Iran needs to objectively collect evidence that can be used in a world court to justify that either the US or Israel are committing blatant acts of terrorism and war.
 
shahnukeiran.jpg


The irony of this image gets me all the time.
 
The reason the corporate media demonizes the real peaceful nuclear power plants in Iran is because they want to be the cheerleading section for an invasion of Iran like they were in Iraq about ten years ago now. This build up to war is all about a need to get a pro-US government in charge there to give US and British corporations a better deal on selling oil and to stop the idea of nuclear energy from spreading, especially in an area like the Middle East.
 
To be honest...i'm not shedding over tears over the assassination...I doubt most of the world is either. I think people are sick of Iran.
 
^No, but you should be angry that there is a blatant covert campaign by some agency of the West to commit acts of terror and to assassinate foreign officials. Doing so only heightens the tensions of a conflict being provoked. Since there have been half a dozen now in the last two years, this is a very direct effort.
 
8wid said:
^No, but you should be angry that there is a blatant covert campaign by some agency of the West to commit acts of terror and to assassinate foreign officials. Doing so only heightens the tensions of a conflict being provoked. Since there have been half a dozen now in the last two years, this is a very direct effort.
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If they really did do the hit...they should have aimed higher. Not just a scientist.
 
Say goodbye to that American citizen caught spying in Iran. Tit for tat in an international level...
 
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