🇷🇺🇺🇦 Discussion: Relations with Russia and the war in Ukraine

[The Incredible Hulk]

The West has been asleep at Russia's ascent over the past couple of decades. That's why they (the Russians) are taking advantage of our collective stupidity at thinking the Cold War was all over. For them, it never ended and they decided and prepared to fight back ten times harder. That brings us to today.

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[Hypestyle]

Russia has a lot to answer for regarding its historical and ongoing racism. There needs to be a progressive movement there to be a bulwark against the nationalists.

 

[samsnee]

Russia in a sense has already won. Regardless if Trump serves four years, they've sown confusion and doubt in our electoral process that won't stop anytime soon. They took the party of Reagan and made them think Putin is an ok guy.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

All Russia had to do was convince the white nationalist in America they were on their side then help them rise to power.

I disagree with the idea that Russia already won. Their infiltration has been exposed and Trump can't help them without bringing up shady dealings that got him elected and his Russian ties.

 

[MaceB]

IF this does all come out as a Russian infiltration operation, I wonder what the US response would be? We've gone to war over much less. Maybe we do a tit for tat and essentially work behind the scenes to get Putin outside.

 

[Jason Kane]

Russia in a sense has already won. Regardless if Trump serves four years, they've sown confusion and doubt in our electoral process that won't stop anytime soon. They took the party of Reagan and made them think Putin is an ok guy.

Even Eisenhower's spinning in his grave w/ him while Stalin is laughing at us all

 

[Sithborg]

All Russia had to do was convince the white nationalist in America they were on their side then help them rise to power.

I disagree with the idea that Russia already won. Their infiltration has been exposed and Trump can't help them without bringing up shady dealings that got him elected and his Russian ties.

I don't think they had to convince them. They were already pretty jealous of Putin's domestic policies.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I don't think they had to convince them. They were already pretty jealous of Putin's domestic policies.

Yes, authoritarian birds of a feather, flock together.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

IF this does all come out as a Russian infiltration operation, I wonder what the US response would be? We've gone to war over much less. Maybe we do a tit for tat and essentially work behind the scenes to get Putin outside.

I'm pretty sure we've been trying to do that since shortly after Putin came to power.

The biggest problem is that Russia doesn't really lend itself to forming a true democracy, so you'd in effect be replacing one despot with another one.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

Finland’s government plans to block foreigners from buying houses near military sites amid claims that Russians were acquiring land to accommodate troops in the event of a potential invasion.

The Finnish Ministry of Defence said some property transactions by non-residents would be cancelled on the grounds of national security.

The move follows reports in Finland late last year that foreigners, namely Russians, were buying up property in politically-sensitive areas in case they were needed in a future “crisis situation”.

A report by intelligence agency Supo warned of the risk of a foreign state using purchased land to cut transport links or house soldiers in Finland.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...litary-sites-land-sales-blocked-a7578601.html

 

[Jason Kane]

I'm pretty sure we've been trying to do that since shortly after Putin came to power.

The biggest problem is that Russia doesn't really lend itself to forming a true democracy, so you'd in effect be replacing one despot with another one.

Pretty much. Especially when some still want communism to work yet still keep the brutal execution of how to make it work in tact knowing damn well if it wasn't fine the first time around before Putin how the hell would be better a 2nd time?

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Pretty much. Especially when some still want communism to work yet still keep the brutal execution of how to make it work in tact knowing damn well if it wasn't fine the first time around before Putin how the hell would be better a 2nd time?

I don't think they miss communism.

They just want their authoritarian oilgarchy to be a global superpower well into the future.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Russia has a lot to answer for regarding its historical and ongoing racism. There needs to be a progressive movement there to be a bulwark against the nationalists.

Ya but anytime somebody starts to lead that movement they usually die due to poison. I guess Russia just has some poor quality control over the local tap water.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Up close and personal: Russian spy ship skims edge of US waters near sub base

 

[Jason Kane]

I don't think they miss communism.

They just want their authoritarian oilgarchy to be a global superpower well into the future.

They can kiss making that dream a reality goodbye after this ****show.

 

[samsnee]

All Russia had to do was convince the white nationalist in America they were on their side then help them rise to power.

I disagree with the idea that Russia already won. Their infiltration has been exposed and Trump can't help them without bringing up shady dealings that got him elected and his Russian ties.

When I say won, I mean they undermined and exacerbated are already fragile political system. It's like if Russia was Zemo in Civil War. They know they can't defeat the US in a real fight, so they divide us and make us fight each other. Yes we were already doing that the last 8 years but they basically poured even more gasoline on.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

When I say won, I mean they undermined and exacerbated are already fragile political system. It's like if Russia was Zemo in Civil War. They know they can't defeat the US in a real fight, so they divide us and make us fight each other. Yes we were already doing that the last 8 years but they basically poured even more gasoline on.

I think Russia is closer to Hydra in Winter Soldier.

They're going for a full blown, secret infiltration of the highest level of US government.

 

[samsnee]

A long read but well worth it. It documents how Putin probably was behind the bombings in the late 90s to catapult himself into power by blaming the Chechyans. I'd like to think that couldn't happen here, but it seems like it could more and more by the minute.

http://reprints.longform.org/putin-conspiracy-banned-story-anderson

 

[Fading]

When I say won, I mean they undermined and exacerbated are already fragile political system. It's like if Russia was Zemo in Civil War. They know they can't defeat the US in a real fight, so they divide us and make us fight each other. Yes we were already doing that the last 8 years but they basically poured even more gasoline on.

It's so sad how my mind works. I saw you say exacerbate, and immediately went to YouTube to look for a clip from Shaun of the Dead where Shaun asks what exacerbate means. So I could quote you, and link it as a response. Couldn't find one, lol.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

A long read but well worth it. It documents how Putin probably was behind the bombings in the late 90s to catapult himself into power by blaming the Chechyans. I'd like to think that couldn't happen here, but it seems like it could more and more by the minute.

http://reprints.longform.org/putin-conspiracy-banned-story-anderson

Not to let the Chechyans off the hook for their part in the war but Putin really was an anti-Islamist's wet dream due to how brutal his methods were. This is how we find ourselves here, partially. There is a legit threat from terrorism, but America should not try to handle global terrorism the way Putin did the Chechnya conflict. But between paranoid and yes frankly bigoted voters and the ignorant, this is where we are.

 

[Sithborg]

So, it looks like the leader of California's secession movement lives in Russia.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

If California seceded, Democrats would never win another presidential election again.

Also it shrinks the US economy by alot.

 

[Shikaeshi]

So, it looks like the leader of California's secession movement lives in Russia.

Surprise, surprise. Yes, he runs a Californian embassy from there.

Californian secession is about as live an issue as Texan secession. When the Dems win the presidency, the Texans start grumbling. When the GOP wins the presidency, Californians start grumbling. It is more of a form of protest than a real thing, compared to Scotland or Catalonia.

 

[chamber-music]

Baltic state Estonia is trying to integrate it's Russian minority speakers in the hope Russia can't use them as a pretext to invade Estonia like it did with the Ukraine.

The government are make it easier for Russian speakers to obtain Estonian citizenship and to improve the border region's economy, where unemployment is high.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-baltics-russia-idUSKBN1630W2

Eastern Europe is covering it's bases when it comes to Russia right now.

 

[Kelly]

Well, considering Texas and California would need 2/3 of the states to vote in favor of succession, I don't see that happening anytime soon.