🇷🇺🇺🇦 Discussion: Relations with Russia and the war in Ukraine

Russia condemns Israel's bombing of Syria.

"Once again, we stress that such aggressive actions against Syria, which constitute a blatant violation of this country’s sovereignty and the fundamental norms of international law, are categorically unacceptable,"

It would appear they are serving up a large batch of hypocrisy. I'm very much against Israel's response to it being attacked on Oct 7, but I'm not actively invading another country, bombing civilian targets, and killing thousands of innocent people.
 
I'm not actively invading another country, bombing civilian targets, and killing thousands of innocent people.

The US is in fact involved in several foreign wars. As we speak its occupying a large part of Syria, has illegal bases in Iraq, and is bombing Yemen.
 
Putin wants WWiII.
I think what he wants is to oversee the reconstruction of what he sees as an empire. I "think" it's a power/legacy thing for him. The biggest problem with the USSR was not an economic system, but a corrupt political system. At this time Russia has both.
 
I think what he wants is to oversee the reconstruction of what he sees as an empire. I "think" it's a power/legacy thing for him. The biggest problem with the USSR was not an economic system, but a corrupt political system. At this time Russia has both.
Bad news for everyone. :(
 
Putin wants WWiII.
I think Putin's said what he wants -- to leave Russia secure. Back in the 1990s, when Yeltsin was obeying Clinton/Blair, Russia was dying. Since then they've had improvements in each of life expectancy, infant mortality, living standards, and military.

But I do think that a large war is inevitable regardless of what anybody wants. I think that neither Biden nor Putin nor Xi nor Trump want WW3 (Netanyahu might), but wars are arguably inevitable in the context of declining empires, and we see the West in major decline, and it's no surprise that the most rabid warmongers are in the UK.

About ten years ago, when Medvedev was President of Russia, I was in a discussion group and we debated whether the USA would attack Iran or Russia. I was pretty sure it would be Russia.

But for a while it looked like I might be wrong. Trump was President for four years and was rabidly anti-Iran. Apparently, American fighter aircraft flew over Iran to bomb them, but Trump got cold feet at the last minute -- thank God. The fighters turned around. He did however end the nuclear deal, and he ordered the assassination of Qassam Soleimani. Trump's belligerence toward Iran was one of the weakest parts of his Presidency. IMO, that and COVID were the two weakest parts.

Biden (and his administration ) doesn't seem to care about Iran as much. I think they see the Middle East as a distraction. They want to fight Russia.

As much as this is an evil plan, I'll acknowledge that in a way it's a rational plan. If they can do to Russia what Israel did to Gaza, and control the natural resources there, that will induce quite the economic boom, would contain China, etc.

It's very sad. A lot of innocent people are going to get hurt.
 
So frustrating that Russia can't be stopped. :(
 
I think Putin's said what he wants -- to leave Russia secure. Back in the 1990s, when Yeltsin was obeying Clinton/Blair, Russia was dying. Since then they've had improvements in each of life expectancy, infant mortality, living standards, and military.

But I do think that a large war is inevitable regardless of what anybody wants. I think that neither Biden nor Putin nor Xi nor Trump want WW3 (Netanyahu might), but wars are arguably inevitable in the context of declining empires, and we see the West in major decline, and it's no surprise that the most rabid warmongers are in the UK.

About ten years ago, when Medvedev was President of Russia, I was in a discussion group and we debated whether the USA would attack Iran or Russia. I was pretty sure it would be Russia.

But for a while it looked like I might be wrong. Trump was President for four years and was rabidly anti-Iran. Apparently, American fighter aircraft flew over Iran to bomb them, but Trump got cold feet at the last minute -- thank God. The fighters turned around. He did however end the nuclear deal, and he ordered the assassination of Qassam Soleimani. Trump's belligerence toward Iran was one of the weakest parts of his Presidency. IMO, that and COVID were the two weakest parts.

Biden (and his administration ) doesn't seem to care about Iran as much. I think they see the Middle East as a distraction. They want to fight Russia.

As much as this is an evil plan, I'll acknowledge that in a way it's a rational plan. If they can do to Russia what Israel did to Gaza, and control the natural resources there, that will induce quite the economic boom, would contain China, etc.

It's very sad. A lot of innocent people are going to get hurt.

You seriously think Biden wants to invade Russia and steal their natural resources?:hehe:

And you blame Clinton for Russia's weak economy the years immediately after the fall of the Soviet Union? :ebr:
 
You seriously think Biden wants to invade Russia and steal their natural resources?:hehe:

And you blame Clinton for Russia's weak economy the years immediately after the fall of the Soviet Union? :ebr:
I can only read your response and can barely imagine what you are responding to, but, no, Biden doesn't want to invade Russia. What corporate entities want to do is exploit natural resources as cheaply as possible; and the preference is to do it by "peaceful" exploitation. The problem Russia has, IMO, is that it has an inefficient form of capitalism because the internal economic structures are meant to enrich a small group. It's like the US on steroids with no "semi" independent judicial ability to in any way correct it.

Russia has abandoned the economic system of the USSR that was responsible for rapid economic growth from the late 1920s on and replaced it with a less effective one, all the while maintaining a corrupt, deformed political state.
 
You seriously think Biden wants to invade Russia and steal their natural resources?:hehe:

And you blame Clinton for Russia's weak economy the years immediately after the fall of the Soviet Union? :ebr:

That's not quite what I wrote. Come on try and be fair, I'm not flaming anybody, I'm not snarking like the person below you, and though sometimes I skip steps and get lazy I've done quite a bit of research. You can see for example that I read sources not just from the West but also from various parts of Asia. That takes a lot of work and effort, anybody who tries would quickly notice that the foundational assumptions are distinct.

No, Biden doesn't want to invade Russia. I explicitly wrote that he doesn't want a big war. What the leadership class / ruling class in the Western countries want, of which Biden is currently the chief representative, is to bring Russia under Western control. There are many hypothetical ways to do this. The plan was likely to promote instability in Russia to the point where Putin would be forced out of power and replaced with a more pro-Western leader. In the long run, have the country broken up into as many pieces as possible.

IN the years after the fall of the USSR fell, there was a desire in Russia for reconciliation with the West. Instead we saw some covert actions, some of which are discussed by Columbia University Professor Jeffrey Sachs in various interviews, and others by Canadian writer Naomi Klein in her book The Shock Doctrine. The Russian leadership trusted the Western leadership, who in turn pushed economic shock therapy, etc, they expanded NATO in spite of having guaranteed to not do so, etc. They also sent wahhabi islamists into Chechnya to help destabilize that region, which is part of why Chechens are some of the most loyal Russian soldiers today.

Do you remember the war in Chechnya? At a minimum, it is quite amazing that a republic that had a major civil war just twenty years ago is now fully rebuilt, stronger than before, and well integrated.

I can only read your response and can barely imagine what you are responding to, but, no, Biden doesn't want to invade Russia. What corporate entities want to do is exploit natural resources as cheaply as possible; and the preference is to do it by "peaceful" exploitation. The problem Russia has, IMO, is that it has an inefficient form of capitalism because the internal economic structures are meant to enrich a small group. It's like the US on steroids with no "semi" independent judicial ability to in any way correct it.

Russia has abandoned the economic system of the USSR that was responsible for rapid economic growth from the late 1920s on and replaced it with a less effective one, all the while maintaining a corrupt, deformed political state.
That is incomplete.

It is true that corporations want to exploit resources cheaply, but what's also true and not mentioned is that they do not want their competitors to exploit it. Independent capitals inevitably clash.

The USSR was not viable. It might have never been viable regardless due to horrific losses of the second world war: 27 million lives. But it was also a less homogeneous country by virtue of being an empire and including many discontiguous elements such as, for example, Western Ukraine.

I'll leave aside the snark.
 
Last edited:
You seriously think Biden wants to invade Russia and steal their natural resources?:hehe:

And you blame Clinton for Russia's weak economy the years immediately after the fall of the Soviet Union? :ebr:
I knew the "abouts" and can't say this is completely accurate, but sounds about right to me from my earlier readings. The point is, that the USSR had a very, very robust economy and was hampered by a terrible political structure. Note that even through the boom years of the US, the USSR economy seemed to do very well. In no way can I condone the internal abuses of the Soviet Union, but the economic structure was clearly effective and could have been much, much more so.


From about one-quarter the size of the U.S. economy in 1928, the Soviet economy climbed to about 40 per- cent in 1955, 50 percent in 1965, and about 60 percent in 1977. Soviet GNP per capita was also catching up, reaching 52 percent of the U.S. level by 1975
 
You seriously think Biden wants to invade Russia and steal their natural resources?:hehe:

And you blame Clinton for Russia's weak economy the years immediately after the fall of the Soviet Union? :ebr:

PS

If someone had told you a year ago that the Biden administration would enable and allow a genocide in Gaza, would you have responded with incredulousness and smileys?

I think that the mask is coming off the empire. There are still many who will cope into absurdum but there are many others who are horrified and now trying to understand things better.
 
PS

If someone had told you a year ago that the Biden administration would enable and allow a genocide in Gaza, would you have responded with incredulousness and smileys?

I think that the mask is coming off the empire. There are still many who will cope into absurdum but there are many others who are horrified and now trying to understand things better.


Is it shocking Biden is a neoconservative who took a hardline against Hamas snd the Palestinians because of a terrorist attack?

No not really.

Ultimately I'm more surprised that Biden actually tried to semi-legalize cannabis, forgive student loans, bring back manufacturing, strengthen unions, lower prescription drug prices, etc.

Alot of this is Bernie Sanders territory.

Biden is dead wrong on Gaza but he's not a wannabe dictator like Trump who helps no one but himself (and other billionaires).

And he's not Putin, assasssinating all political dissidents and rivals. Restricting every civil liberty. Keep power perpetually. Invading peaceful nations. Oppossing every Western democracy. Allowing only a state run press to "report the news". Arresting protestors for protesting. Oppressing the LGBT community. Allowing domestic violence against women.
 
Is it shocking Biden is a neoconservative who took a hardline against Hamas snd the Palestinians because of a terrorist attack?

I think that you know that that's not a fair description of what's happening.

And if you have to cope that hard, it suggests that you're already on loose ground.

And he's not Putin, assasssinating all political dissidents and rivals. Restricting every civil liberty. Keep power perpetually. Invading peaceful nations. Oppossing every Western democracy. Allowing only a state run press to "report the news". Arresting protestors for protesting. Oppressing the LGBT community. Allowing domestic violence against women.

There are a lot of legitimate criticism of Putin, but by and large they are not to be found in the Western corporate media. They can be found in independent Western media, international media, or just by listening to Russians.
 
I think that you know that that's not a fair description of what's happening.

And if you have to cope that hard, it suggests that you're already on loose ground.



There are a lot of legitimate criticism of Putin, but by and large they are not to be found in the Western corporate media. They can be found in independent Western media, international media, or just by listening to Russians.

I mean, it depends who you ask. Hamas is the primary reason for the Isreali offensive according to the Biden Administration.

I gave legitimate criticism of Putin. He does all of the things I listed.

And of course, Russian media will lie about Putin's misdeeds. They're state run. You remaining unaware of this makes me skeptical of your other "independent" news sources.
 
I mean, it depends who you ask. Hamas is the primary reason for the Isreali offensive according to the Biden Administration.

I gave legitimate criticism of Putin. He does all of the things I listed.

And of course, Russian media will lie about Putin's misdeeds. They're state run. You remaining unaware of this makes me skeptical of your other "independent" news sources.
1) Do you really believe that Hamas is the main reason for the offensive? IMO the main reason is they want the land (and the coast and its natural gas wealth), and Hamas is the excuse.

Israel has been ethnically cleansing Palestinians since 1948.

2) I'm aware of many of the issues with large Russian media. I do see some critiques of Putin, there's a lot of criticism of him on Telegram, for example of many poor military decisions in 2022/2023, some of which seeps through to YouTube, Twitter, etc. So it's kind of like American media in that case, with a controlled core and more diversity on the outskirts, but with a language barrier, obviously.

For analysis of the failings of American media, I recommend Noam Chomsky.

The West has many of the same issues you bring up. Julian Assange is in prison. A hundred journalists in Palestine have been murdered. A Boeing whistleblower was recently assassinated. And nobody invades more countries than us.

You should be skeptical of any source I link to or really any source period. But 85% of the world's population lives in non-White / non-Western countries, so we should all do more to better consider their points of views.
 
1) Do you really believe that Hamas is the main reason for the offensive? IMO the main reason is they want the land (and the coast and its natural gas wealth), and Hamas is the excuse.

Israel has been ethnically cleansing Palestinians since 1948.

2) I'm aware of many of the issues with large Russian media. I do see some critiques of Putin, there's a lot of criticism of him on Telegram, for example of many poor military decisions in 2022/2023, some of which seeps through to YouTube, Twitter, etc. So it's kind of like American media in that case, with a controlled core and more diversity on the outskirts, but with a language barrier, obviously.

For analysis of the failings of American media, I recommend Noam Chomsky.

The West has many of the same issues you bring up. Julian Assange is in prison. A hundred journalists in Palestine have been murdered. A Boeing whistleblower was recently assassinated. And nobody invades more countries than us.

You should be skeptical of any source I link to or really any source period. But 85% of the world's population lives in non-White / non-Western countries, so we should all do more to better consider their points of views.
Alot of non-western/non-white media are mouth pieces for dictatorships namely China and Russia and these governments are just as racist and imperialist as Western countries in the past.

If they respected Africans, Latinos and SE Asians as equals they wouldn't be resorting to imperialism.
 
Whatever it takes to slow Putin down.
 

That's a short term solution. In the long term, an underlying issue is that NATO's European members spend comparatively little on their militaries. For example Germany spends 1.4%, France spends 1.9%, Italy spends 1.7%, UK spends 2.3%. All of these countries, the four richest in the EU, are in violation of the NATO charter which requires 3% spending on defense.

Europe has neither the resources nor the will to effect significant change on its own. And its economy is growing weaker. So decisions will ultimately remain up to Washington.

Tldr; money talks, and Europe spends very little on defense.
 
Last edited:

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"