Smallville 11.1 - Guardian - Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

[SpideyVille]

Isn't the whole costume change, or at least the lost of red tights in every current version of Superman, due to the lawsuit?

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

Thanks for the article. I remember that now. It came out the week after the Finale aired.

I'm not sure I buy into their explanation. What purpose would they have in teasing the suit, and using the CGI Superman if they never had any intention of letting Tom wear the tights?

Something is off in this picture.

Superman's coming out part to the world was going to be something BIG. Given the show's budget it was only ever going to happen with CG. They weren't going to put Tom on wires in a costume against a green screen or scale model of Apokolips.

Them using a CG Superman for those scenes has no correlation on ever creating and putting Tom in an actual suit. You're adding 1 + 1 and coming up with 3.

Tom was a producer too. He was in on this decision regardless. He's to blame one way or the other.

Welling had an "Executive Producer" credit which he only got the final two seasons. His creative input into the show was minimal except for the episodes he actually directed. He wasn't hatching plot lines especially ones that would culminate the 10 year run of the show.

Cut the guy a break people. The guy could come out and say "I spent on $1 million on a custom suit for myself and tried to wear it on set but security tackled me and tore it off." and yet some of you would still hold him at fault. I just dont get it?

That being said, this is the thread about the comics. Why are we belaboring this point yet again in here?

 

[Webhead2006]

I think its partially due to the legal stuff. But then there is that earth one book and he still got trunks there. So it gone for sv is like come on.

 

[SpideyVille]

I was very glad to see that they kept the red tights for the Finale, but was really disappointed when I saw them change it for the comic. I still haven't read it, but I know Lex makes a reference to him changing his suit again, but I kind of wish they kept it because I just don't like the full blue suit.

 

[Rockstar]

Superman's coming out part to the world was going to be something BIG. Given the show's budget it was only ever going to happen with CG. They weren't going to put Tom on wires in a costume against a green screen or scale model of Apokolips.

Them using a CG Superman for those scenes has no correlation on ever creating and putting Tom in an actual suit. You're adding 1 + 1 and coming up with 3.

Smallville does greenscreen and wirework quite often. It's well within the show's budget.

It was just intentional for it to involve him not wearing the suit.

It's no coincidence they had to use shots like this:

Welling had an "Executive Producer" credit which he only got the final two seasons. His creative input into the show was minimal except for the episodes he actually directed. He wasn't hatching plot lines especially ones that would culminate the 10 year run of the show.

Cut the guy a break people. The guy could come out and say "I spent on $1 million on a custom suit for myself and tried to wear it on set but security tackled me and tore it off." and yet some of you would still hold him at fault. I just dont get it?

You're acting like he had no say over whether he could wear the suit or not, and Brian and Kelly maliciously conspired to keep him from wearing it.

If Welling wanted it, it would have happened.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

Smallville does greenscreen and wirework quite often. It's well within the show's budget.

You've missed the point. I'm well aware they used green screen in the show at times. However there's no way in hell they had the budget to make something like that with him as Superman saving an airplane and then pushing a planet out of orbit and have it look the slightest bit believable or have it be doable on the show's limited budget.

Having him fly in a barn against a background of stock footage is one thing, having him take on Apokolips in a completely generated environment? Not happening. There's a reason big budget films with 100x the budget of Smallville go the CG route as well.

It was just intentional for it to involve him not wearing the suit.

It's no coincidence they had to use shots like this:

Not sure what your point is? They did CG shots of Clark as the Blur (red/blue and black suit) and CG of Ollie as Green Arrow. Hell, the even CG'd a red cape onto Ollie when he was trying to throw people off Clark's trail.

You're acting like he had no say over whether he could wear the suit or not, and Brian and Kelly maliciously conspired to keep him from wearing it.

If Welling wanted it, it would have happened.

And you're acting like you have one iota of knowledge that he was even ever asked to wear a costume. Every interview you can find states that was never the case. If you're going to convict the man, burden of proof is on you to prove him guilty. Even going back to the Millar and Gough days there was talk of the show simply ending on a shirt rip.

 

[Rockstar]

Not sure what your point is? They did CG shots of Clark as the Blur (red/blue and black suit) and CG of Ollie as Green Arrow. Hell, the even CG'd a red cape onto Ollie when he was trying to throw people off Clark's trail. .

My point is there were plenty of shots that *could* have shown Tom in the suit, in closeups that didn't involve heavy action.

And you're acting like you have one iota of knowledge that he was even ever asked to wear a costume. Every interview you can find states that was never the case. If you're going to convict the man, burden of proof is on you to prove him guilty .

There wouldn't be any interviews where he overtly says he's against the suit.

He did, however, dodge the question of whether he wore the suit during many of the S10 press interviews, including the Finale interviews.


I may have came into the game late, but way before Season 10.. there seemed to be a sentiment among fans that Welling wasn't interested in playing Superman or wearing the tights. Not sure if there were any offhanded remarks or actions he made to substanciate that.

Low and behold, in the Finale, he didn't don the suit. It just seems too coincidental to ignore.

 

[ironman29758]

I was very glad to see that they kept the red tights for the Finale, but was really disappointed when I saw them change it for the comic. I still haven't read it, but I know Lex makes a reference to him changing his suit again, but I kind of wish they kept it because I just don't like the full blue suit.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=36952

Having told stories essentially with Clark Kent for so long, how do you make" Smallville: Season 11" different then what readers would get from "Action Comics" or "Superman?"
It's in the title -- it's "Smallville." It's an ensemble piece with Clark Kent at its core. These are continuations of the characters roughly two million people a week, half a year each year, for a decade tuned in to see. If you're someone who stopped watching the show in the early years, come on back. They aren't in high school anymore. He's in the suit. Like, all over the place. You're going to get Superman action. You're going to get derring-do from Green Arrow. Lois and Clark are together -- and happy. So there's some romance there. And Chloe. And Chloe! Chloe Sullivan is here -- you won't find her anywhere else (as far as I know!).
Do you have to tread carefully moving forward as to not dovetail into Clark Kent/Superman's 70-plus year history? Or do the New 52 and the fact this is set in the "Smallville" universe allow you to move quite freely?
There are nods to elements from the DC of the past and present that are going to pop up from time to time, but the book is rolling straight out of the world of the show. So far, the only lining-up/branding hiccup has been the coloring on the Clark's hero outfit. We had the "Superman Returns" version seen briefly in the finale, and DC and I were on the same page on wanting to make the look for the book its own. We've got a new version that's a little bit old, a little bit new, a lot "Smallville." There's a very simple story reason for the change that's spelled out in the second chapter.

Speaking of those first ten pages, it’s obvious that at some point that we’re going to see Smallville’s Superman in a costume, flying. How did it feel for you to see that for the first time, when the artwork began coming in?
It was great. We tried to make as much of a moment as we could, of a head to toe reveal, of Clark in his slightly new Superman suit. It’s not specifically the Superman Returns style suit that we had seen frozen in the Fortress and on that wee little CG Clark in the finale.
There’s a very easy reason for why he’s changed his suit, which literally is a line between Lois and Clark at the top of Week 2. I think it makes total sense.
It’s great. We do it as much as we possibly can. Everyone’s been waiting for so long to see Clark in the suit, so now that we can do it, we’re going to stretch our legs with that.

The idea was mandated by DC but not only it does make sense since most of the heroes(JLA not counting JSA, or Booster) had a leather/hoodie costume going on as well as the fact Clark was wearing a red jacket/blue shirt or blue jacket/red shirt most of times when he was saving someone or even his proto-superman costumes in season 9 and 10. the Smallville season 11 costume makes sense in the end imo.

 

[Webhead2006]

The suit deaal still though as we been told countless times the suit wasn't rreally what they where going for. The show still was always the journey clark took to take the mantle and wear the suit. Then him wearing the suit. Sure I still would have loved at least a full suit of tom. But I get what they where going for.

 

[Herolee10]

The show probably would have not gone as long as it did if he was in the show. To me and just my opinion of the guy from sr, to his chuck guest spot. He is a very lousy blank slate of an actor. Sure tom was fresh at the start of the show's run. But he grew and develop a lot over the yrs.

That is true. As much as I think that BR is a stand up person, his roles post SR...well like you said, he does come off bland in most of his performances.

If anything, I thought he did a great/good job with his "goofy" Clark though.

The suit deaal still though as we been told countless times the suit wasn't rreally what they where going for. The show still was always the journey clark took to take the mantle and wear the suit. Then him wearing the suit. Sure I still would have loved at least a full suit of tom. But I get what they where going for.

I can understand that; I just wish that the producers would not have teased the suit as much as they had done in the final season. I mean they couldn't have been so ignorant enough to not know that a lot of people would have had their expectations raised once the suit was shown prior to Clark donning it. Plus, with things like having seen so many "superman-like" moments already before the finale, with the super change up in the booth or even the shirt rip in Season 9's Warrior, a lot of people have said that the show owed us more than that after having shown so much and having gone on for much longer than they had originally intended.

Plus, it's one thing to not show Clark in the suit at all till the end, but they had him as Superman saving the day, so they already contradicted themselves there.

 

[vantheman77]

As I've said last year after the Finale, they had to show Clark's first-ever mission as Superman saving Lois and pushing Apokolips out of Earth and that's where they had to stop as they didn't need to explore further than that, but the new comics covers Clark in his first year as Superman and I'm glad it's written by someone who has written for the show.

PS - The second issue of Smallville Season 11 in print comes out this week.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

My point is there were plenty of shots that *could* have shown Tom in the suit, in closeups that didn't involve heavy action.

You mean like this one? Where he actually wore the top to a suit for a close-up?

There wouldn't be any interviews where he overtly says he's against the suit.

He did, however, dodge the question of whether he wore the suit during many of the S10 press interviews, including the Finale interviews.

Tom dodged every question about the Finale and conclusion of the show as he wasnt allowed to say anything. He wasnt going to give away one of the biggest moments of a 10 year show.

I may have came into the game late, but way before Season 10.. there seemed to be a sentiment among fans that Welling wasn't interested in playing Superman or wearing the tights. Not sure if there were any offhanded remarks or actions he made to substanciate that.

Sentiment is a funny thing. At one time sentiment thought the world was flat and that certain men were only worth 3/5's of others. Sentiment is often wrong, as it was in the case with Welling.

 

[Webhead2006]

I agree they probably never should have teased the suit in season 9 finale and all of ten. Since they should have done just a new blur suit maybe have gone in line a bit more like ga suit ans then show a sv suit for final to a degree.

I can't wait to pick up issue two tomorrow once I am home from work. I just home I am not stuck at work all day and not get chance to pick up comic before my local shop closes.

 

[Herolee10]

I agree they probably never should have teased the suit in season 9 finale and all of ten. Since they should have done just a new blur suit maybe have gone in line a bit more like ga suit ans then show a sv suit for final to a degree.

Heck, I would have been fine with Clark having saved Earth in his red leather jacket blur outfit and then coming down back to Metropolis where we see him on top of the roof and people cheering at the sight of him. Then AFTER that, he'd go to the FOS and finally be deemed "good enough" by Jor-el to get the suit and then cut to the flash forward into the future.

 

[vantheman77]

Heck, I would have been fine with Clark having saved Earth in his red leather jacket blur outfit and then coming down back to Metropolis where we see him on top of the roof and people cheering at the sight of him. Then AFTER that, he'd go to the FOS and finally be deemed "good enough" by Jor-el to get the suit and then cut to the flash forward into the future.

That's what I expected going into the finale.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

Always sort of liked Supes coming out to the world in full regalia. I know in some of the comics he saved the plane in a shirt and jeans, but just something about him in full costume as the bright shining beacon of hope that saves people always really popped for me.

 

[Rockstar]

You mean like this one? Where he actually wore the top to a suit for a close-up?

And that's all we ever got out of Welling. A mid-transformation Clark Kent shot.

It also proves that production did create some form of the suit that was tailored to fit Tom Welling. So it really wasn't a question of production lacking the means to create the suit, especially after everything they created for earlier episodes.

They could have easily done a shot like this of Welling donning the full costume. They had the means to do so.

But for some reason, it didn't happen.

Brain and Kelly knew the fans wanted to see Tom in the suit as Superman. It couldn't be more obvious from the SDCC appearance. They even went as far to bring in the suit to tease Superman and build up that anticipation.

Something prevented them from delivering Tom in the suit. It's not exactly out of the box logic to say that it was likely Tom Welling.

Even the CG shots featuring actual footage of Welling only showed his head. They were incredibly uncharacteristic and intentional tight shots.

It was almost like they were intentionally censoring the image of Tom Welling as Superman.

Something was fishy.


Brain and Kelly's explanation doesn't really add up logically:
http://www.craveonline.com/tv/artic...y-tom-welling-never-wore-the-superman-costume

 

[Herolee10]

On another note, a part of me kind of wishes now that given their budget, that they wouldn't have tackled Darkseid, especially after seeing on what we eventually got. Darkseid in any way was way out of their league to do any sort of justice to.

I mean the reason why Zod was considered a great villain in Season 9 was because he was allowed to be shown and developed as a great character on screen. And even when no CGI was required for his appearance, the fight between him and Clark, as great as it was compared to recent fights on the show, it was somewhat badly choreographed in some ways imho.

I mean too bad that they couldn't have applied the same energy and intensity that was put in the titan vs Clark fight; for me that will ALWAYS be the show's best fight sequence period.

Heck, given that they were at least able to give Doomsday a monster appearance, they should have just hired an actor and have him dressed up in the best way that they could resemble Darkseid instead of having him all cgi or inhabiting someone else's body.

 

[Mikelus]

Lets be honest, Peterson and Souders are not the most brilliant writers in the business. They made way too many mistakes and lacked logic. If you don't have the budget to do characters like Doomsday and Darkseid justice, then use more human or grounded villains, is not like Superman doesn't have enough of those.

 

[Herolee10]

One thing that I thought that they could have and should have capitalized on in Season 10 was something that Rick Flag told Clark, on how “more and more heroes were joining his side” when it came to the VRA act.

Given the recent release of the animated film “Superman vs. the Elite” I thought that Manchester Black and his group would have been great to introduce as a main seasonal antagonists for Clark to face, where they’re presented as heroes with of course different and conflicting views on how a hero should be like in today’s world and how their views puts Clark’s ideals and his own group of heroes at risk from the public backlash and so on that they’ll receive as a result.

 

[Rockstar]

Haha, Rick Flagg and the Suicide Squad. What a waste.

I hated how they turned him into Chloe's b&tch in the Matrix ripoff episode. It was so contrived.

I agree that Darkseid and the New Gods should not have been done on Smallville.

I wouldn't have minded Ultraman as the main villain for Season 10. The Alternate Lionel storyline was the only good storyline during Season 10.

I would have avoided the VRA nonsense too. It was poorly handled and really cheesy.

 

[SpideyVille]

I kinda liked the VRA storyline (minus Ollie's Iron Man impersonation), because I thought that that would have been what forced Clark to reveal himself to the world. Looking back at it now, I think they could've used that as a reason for Clark to start wearing glasses and developing the whole blundering identity. I really hated how they just dropped that whole storyline, in terms of Flagg and the Suicide Squad, after Beacon. I was really hoping to see some kind of team battle, or even just some appearance by members of the JL.

 

[Herolee10]

If anything, I thought it was unnecessary to introduce the alternate Lionel and Clark Luthor storylines given everything that was going on.

And yeah, instead of the likes of Darkseid being used along with trying to bring in as many new DC characters into the show as they possibly could (Booster Gold, Blue Beetle, Superboy), I think they should have just focused on finishing arcs and focusing on the whole VRA thing, with Amanda Waller having been brought back, etc.

Also, imho, the second half of the season in terms of antagonistic problems should/could have been about members of the VRA trying to take revenge on Clark and his allies and declare a private war on them, thus them recruiting all of their past foes like how we saw briefly in “Prophecy”. Not only would that have been easier to do but it would have been better to see imho.

Heck, aside from working out scheduling issues, I think it would have been feasible and I would have been up towards seeing a small scale war between the heroes/antiheroes/villains.

 

[Rockstar]

The VRA thing would have been tough to pull off with these writers, without it getting preachy or cliche.

I wasn't a fan of the Lex clone stuff either. I think I would have preferred Ultraman to have the Crime Syndicate as his team (SV versions of the Crime Syndicate).

There's so much to explore with that concept and a parallel Earth where Clark is the villain of the story.

So much of it is rooted in the familiar and what we already know about Smallville, it just completely changes the context.

with Amanda Waller having been brought back, etc.

She's dead. Zod set her fat ass on fire.

 

[SpideyVille]

I think I would've preferred something to happen to Clark where he was missing or trapped somewhere while the rest of the team is fighting off whoever is the current threat, like the Suicide Squad or something. Just not someone too strong like Darkseid or Ultraman.

It could've ended with Clark returning with the suit, making his debut to the world as he saves them and acts as the difference maker in the fight.