Comics Amazing Spider-Man 601 Preview [SPOILERS]

[moraldeficiency]

You know, you raise an interesting point. Based on what I've seen, most fans have responded positively to Norah and thought that she and Peter would be the one's hooking up during MJ's absence. I think the reason folks responded well to this character (even though I think she's a bit too much like Smallville's Chloe Sullivan) is that, due to her strong, sassy, and spunky personality, she filled a void that had been left behind when Mary Jane had been all but written out of the books. And lets face it, compared to the two new female supporting characters who were around at the time she was introduced, she proved far more interesting in fewer pages than Carlie and Lily did in several weeks worth of issues.

But perhaps it worked too well because it appears Norah was only intended to be Peter's sarcastic, go-getter co-worker and never a serious contender for his affections. The characters who were created to be potential love interests and rivals for MJ, Carlie Cooper and Michelle Gonzales, seem less engaging. In Carlie's case, she just seemed to much of a cipher for Gwen and was incredibly underused as a character that she never got the adequate development or exploration of her character that she was supposed to. And in Michelle's case, as you rightly pointed out, her characterization has been inconsistent, has only been seen with Peter twice until now she's apparently in bed with the guy, and (based on this preview) seems to be less of a character and more of a plot device--and an overused one at that-- designed to achieve a desired result.

If the goal is to get readers emotionally invested in a potential love triangle between Peter, MJ, and whatever new love interest comes along, you would think they would have invested more time making the rival love interest as three-dimensional a character as possible rather than just another type.

I see some different comparisons with:

Norah=MJ
Carlie=Gwen
Lilly=evil liz allen

Personality wise they fit. What I always liked about MJ was she was kinda an opposite of Pete and that always makes for an interesting dynamic. Gwen either agreeded with Pete or whined about things (kind of the way Pete does). MJ would be Pete's counter point and even though (as clones mentioned) she toned it down later she was still that voice of "maybe you're thinking with your head up your ass, tiger" which I enjoy. Also while she was somewhat muted, MJ is still the person that calls in the calvary and she's beaten several supervillians and even saved Pete's ass on multiple occasions. An extrovert and an introvert, just a better plot device, and that's what norah is.

 

[Meehaul]

Gwen rocked, she wasn't a whiner. MJ has gone through multiple personality changes. Still, I read ASM 601, and I'm not sure WHAT happened with Pete. I'm sure not keen on the one night stand thing, nor am I happy with the drunken Pete thing. Especially given the fact he just lectured Wolverine on drinking back when Wolvey spent the day with Spidey on Wolvey's birthday. Waid's a good writer, but not on Spider-Man. Imho, he has little feel for the character. But then again, I've been unhappy with the twists and changes to Pete's character since the whole "your parents are robots and you had a nervous breakdown" story arcs. So, I'm clearly out of step.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Gwen rocked, she wasn't a whiner.

2D characters usually aren't whiners, due to the fact they have no distinct personality. Gwen Stacy was the most boring, useless character ever. The best thing that ever happened to her was Green Goblin tossing her off a building and Spidey snapping her neck (great teamwork ftw!)... and that happened... 36 years ago. Yep. She's been dead almost half a century. People really need to stop pining for her.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Gwen whined all the time. First it was, "why doesn't Peter notice me?" then "why did Spider-Man kill my father" and "why doesn't Peter marry me?" and finally "I have to go to europe to get away". A little after that she died. Now Pete whines with good reason and some of hers was good too, but Gwen did whine often.

I'm not sure about that MJ thing with the multiple personalities. She was the party girl cause she was avoiding her own personal demons. Eventually she fell for Pete and him being the nice guy he was allowed her to let go and be a little softer. She's gone from the devoted wife to an independent woman and back a few times but there were direct reasons for that, from we need the money, to I need the work, to Peter needs me to be there for him. You adapt and change a bit to help your relationship/partner/yourself as time goes by.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Plus, MJ never cheated on Peter. But personally, I thought Gwen and Norman Osborn made a lovely couple!

On a side-note, I think some people still talk about Gwen because that's just when they started reading and she represents nostalgia for them. I think very little has to do with her character, because my futon has more character.

 

[Fanged-Hunter]

I simply don't post much anymore. Only once in a while do I go so far as to type up my thoughts...but

Yep. They're doing it. They're pushing me to quit reading Spider-Man after 18 years.

And that's where my reasoning is. I'm 28 years old. I started reading Spidey when I was 10. There was wisecracks and punches to the face. But there wasn't irresponsibility with alcohol and one night stands with a random girl you've known and are living with for the past, what is it comic-wise, three or four weeks? Is this what I'd give a 10 year old to read?

I'm disappointed with Marvel, that's what it boils down to. As for the argument "He's single, he can get laid" argument. I find that not only a bad argument, but part of the problem to begin with. Yeah, I'm only 28 and I really am this old fashioned, but sex is supposed to be something that brings two people together in deeper ways. Not a quick bang to get a quick feel-good.

And for the record, he's not single. The marriage wasn't really erased. It's been described from the start that "it's as if it never happened." Nobody remembers it, things were altered as if it hadn't occurred. That doesn't mean it really didn't.

But what really grinds my gears about this is that Peter seems more confused than guilt-ridden. Personally, I would have written him feeling like the lowest scum of the Earth, like a husband that just cheated on his wife and no explainable understanding of why he feels that way. Because remember what Mephisto said was his gain in this. Some part of MJ and Peter, some tiny little piece of their soul deep down will know what they've lost and that will always gnaw at them. No matter who they meet, no matter what they do, they will always feel a little empty inside. That little inner suffering is supposedly why Mephisto offered the damn deal in the first place.

But no, not in today's age. Go get drunk, screw around, have sex, sleep with whoever, and although you'll feel bad for calling the girl by another name for about 10 minutes, you'll get over it. It's all good. Do comics reflect life or does life reflect art? Yeah, I'm willing to say it at the risk of sound prudish; this exemplifies the moral corruption of our society. Sex means nothing. Marriage means nothing.

This isn't the Spider-Man I grew up with and actually did a presentation in college on; Spider-Man as a Role Model (the embracing of an ideal rather than a person as a role model). This isn't the comic book I can tell people to give their kids anymore. And no, you shouldn't have to pick up Spider-Man Family for kids. There's no REASON for comics to cater to prime time television style to be a good story.

And yeah, part of it is just a continued disgust as Marvel's abandonment of the marriage due to their own inadequacies. Take a look at Burn Notice on USA sometime. An ex-spy & former Navy SEAL are the two main protagonists, and much like Spidey with MJ, they try to keep the ex-spy's mother out of what's going on and keep her in the dark. More than once, she's gotten involved, contributed, and even manipulated bad guys to give info where interrogation wasn't working.

Where was that side of the marriage? The support from MJ, her involvement, her actual contribution to what he did? For that matter, look at Law & Order SVU's handling of Elliot Stabler's marriage, even with rough patches, separations and near-divorce before reconciliation.

Wolverine's the bad boy; he has one night stands.
Spider-Man is the moral high ground, the one you can aspire to be like. He's a hero because he IS better than average.

I've got to agree, this was way out of character for him. Marvel's on a slippery slope with my continued reading, especially when canceling would save me some cash these days.

Or hell at the very least make his one night stand be with a well drawn Felicia Hardy. >_>

Whew...rant over.

 

[Venom 1988]

I'm sorry, not to bash on you're post at all, but I can't take anyone who says grinds my gears seriously

 

[Meehaul]

I am nostalgic for Gwen just as others are nostalgic for MJ. Gwen was an interesting character. The fact that Pete was involved in the death of her father made the tension between her love of Pete and her hatred of Spider-Man interesting--far more interesting than anything done with/to MJ. Pete felt she couldn't love him because he was Spidey. He also felt he couldn't marry her because if he married her, he'd expose her to danger. Gwen didn't just go to Europe to "get away" she wanted Pete to go with her, or to pursue her, or to do SOMETHING. They'd been dating seriously for a good bit of time and he couldn't seem to commit and she reasonably wanted some answers or at least some sort of resolution. Regardless, Gwen had a very definite character and one that fit the early Pete much better than MJ. Even Betty Brant would have been a better fit than MJ. MJ became less an actual "character" and more just a device. It's not that she "grew" over time, it's that she became the empty vessel into which any writer would pour whatever specific characterization he may have needed at the time. I thought it was just as out of character for Pete to marry MJ, a party girl, model actress, and live in a nice apartment, etc., as it is for him to get drunk and have a one night stand. None of it makes much sense to me. But, that's just my opinion. People are free to differ. Many prefer MJ to Gwen, I do not. I don't even really prefer her to Betty--well, I guess it depends upon which "version" of MJ we're talking about. She's had as many personalities as Wolverine has origin stories.

 

[Fanged-Hunter]

I'm sorry, not to bash on you're post at all, but I can't take anyone who says grinds my gears seriously

Would "burns my grits" do more for ya? t:

And I'm assuming this issue is supposed to be revealing that MJ's whisper to Mephisto was for her to remember Pete was Spider-Man?

 

[C. Pumpkins]

I am nostalgic for Gwen just as others are nostalgic for MJ. Gwen was an interesting character. The fact that Pete was involved in the death of her father made the tension between her love of Pete and her hatred of Spider-Man interesting--far more interesting than anything done with/to MJ. Pete felt she couldn't love him because he was Spidey. He also felt he couldn't marry her because if he married her, he'd expose her to danger. Gwen didn't just go to Europe to "get away" she wanted Pete to go with her, or to pursue her, or to do SOMETHING. They'd been dating seriously for a good bit of time and he couldn't seem to commit and she reasonably wanted some answers or at least some sort of resolution. Regardless, Gwen had a very definite character and one that fit the early Pete much better than MJ. Even Betty Brant would have been a better fit than MJ. MJ became less an actual "character" and more just a device. It's not that she "grew" over time, it's that she became the empty vessel into which any writer would pour whatever specific characterization he may have needed at the time. I thought it was just as out of character for Pete to marry MJ, a party girl, model actress, and live in a nice apartment, etc., as it is for him to get drunk and have a one night stand. None of it makes much sense to me. But, that's just my opinion. People are free to differ. Many prefer MJ to Gwen, I do not. I don't even really prefer her to Betty--well, I guess it depends upon which "version" of MJ we're talking about. She's had as many personalities as Wolverine has origin stories.

This is interesting to me. I've been dwelling in Gwen ponderings the last year or so more then ever and it occurred to me that Peter probably would never of gotten married after Gwen's death. A love interest that deep would become way too much of a liability especially given the reason why he's a crime-fighter, i.e. Uncle Ben's death. I've been corrected online before for expressing this opinion by MJ fans so I'm re-reading this era.

Just read #601 and I gotta say I really like Waid's style and take on Spidey. Vin's sister might be being used as a plot device, namely Pete not having a comfortable home, but Waid does breath life into her character. She's one of those crazy cute girls most of us have a pleasure of meeting, but then walking away from.

The art didn't bother me as much as others either although Pete has some dorky eyebrows and overall Alberti's faces lack character distinction.

I do like that Pete got layed, I think the situation that led them there was realistic (too bad he didn't remember it though), and he woke up thinking of MJ which was pretty cool in my book.

Ok, I wrote enough, I think. I like the MJ twist at the end of the issue too. I think the Webheads waited this long intentionally until they had all the details of the new MJ/PP dynamic worked out. Later!

 

[stillanerd]

Well, here's what I really, REALLY didn't like about this issue (I'm sure folks can guess):

Spoiler

The whole business of Peter may or may not have had a drunken one-night stand with his roommate Michele (and I'm really hoping it's just a fake-out) is just so made of fail for the following reasons:
1. Peter Parker, as a guy whose whole mantra is "with great power comes greater responsibility" comes off looking liek an IRRESPONSIBLE jack-ass, as well as being out-of-character,
2. It's been poorly set-up from the get go, given that this is only the THIRD comic where we've seen Peter and Michele Gonzales have any scenes together at all, thus we get inadequate character development as well.
3. Out of all the possibilities they could have taken with Peter's new roommate, this was the most uninspired and cliched route they could've taken.
4. Notice Michele is doesn't seem at all shocked, embarassed, or upset like Peter is that they might have slept together, but only gets furious over the fact that he can't remember it. Which basically tells me (at least the way I read it) that she was the one who came on to him and Peter had such a thick pair of beer googles on that he actually thought he was having make-up sex with MJ (one comment on Daily Scans even goes as far to say that if Peter and Michele did have sex, given that they were both intoxicated--and there's a certain point of drunkeness in which someone is legally unable to give consent--one or both of them may have actually committed date rape). Not to mention, studies have shown large quanities of alcohol decreases testosterone and arousal in men but increases it for women, making it all the more likely that she came on to him and Peter, too drunk out of his gourd to care, just went along for the ride. And if that's the case, then I have no sympathy for this character at all. If the braintrust/webhead's goal was to make us dispise Michele, then they've certainly done a bang up job.
And folks have been wondering why I've been calling Michele "Vin Gonzales with boobs."
It makes also makes it look as though she was only added to the supporting cast as a contrived plot device instead of a legitimate character in order to achieve an end result--specifically Peter, once again, having to look for a new place to live, (not to mention what will most likely be a future confrontation with Vin, who already dislikes him, over how his old roommate "took advantage" of his sister).
And 5. It completely distracts from what should be the central focus of the book: "Why, after almost year (Marvel time) since she and Peter "broke up," is Mary Jane back in New York?"

What I did like was:

Spoiler

That MJ still remembers Peter is Spider-Man as it still allows her character to act as a confidant who can ask questions to Peter (and thus bring the readers up to speed), offer constructive criticism (in which the reader can agree with) and keeps her in play on the romantic front. But then again, since most people pretty much guessed that she still remembers Peter is Spider-Man long before this issue, it really isn't all that surprising to see it confirmed.
I also liked that we get to see some interaction between himself, Betty, and Glory Grant, along with Betty teasing him about MJ. Not to mention get up to date with the rest of what's going on. Still not sure about Aunt May's distant relatives. And interestingly enough, Harry has moved out of his apartment and no one knows where he is.
And finally, I like Spidey rescuing people from a burning building, and at one point, using his brains to find the water to clear a path. (Not to mention, if I'm not mistaken, the firefighter says they've been an increase in electrical fires. Hmm, a possible hint that Electro is back and maybe, in keeping with the Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon, is now an energy being?)
Other than that, it's just pretty bland stuff from Waid.

Oh, and the Bendis/Quesada back-up feature I thought was cute. A little sappy, but cute.

 

[Venom 1988]

Would "burns my grits" do more for ya? t:

Sure lol

 

[carnageehw]

Pete knocked a few too many down, something probably every single one of us has done.

Something every one of has has done.....how long ago?

I dunno, getting wasted and doing "crazy" stuff is just such a "college" thing.

Any story I hear that begins with "Man, I was SOOOO drunk I did something awesome...." just says to me "I have no interesting personality on my own, and need alcohol to make myself interesting."

That's all.

Except it's not all. She did the cliched and lame "I don't know who I slept with" routine.


I mean, don't get me wrong, if it's just a bait and switch, I don't really care too much, except for the fact that drunken antics are just so boring and played out.

 

[reallyoldspideyfan]

Hello,

My biggest question would be how much booze would it take to get Peter drunk to the point of blackouts. I mean, as Spider-man, he has been drugged, poisoned and been able to finish the fight with his spider-immune system. One would think he would clean out the bar and people would notice.

I agree with the character comparisions above as well. You forgot one:

JJJ Sr. = Captain Stacy.

Thanks,

DN

 

[SpideyInATree]

Well, I was finally able to get to reading # 601 this afternoon. Girlfriend is still sleeping so figured it was the best time to get my comics fix in. She always is busting my chops when I read comics around her.

Anyway, really had a lot of with the issue this week. After the awesome # 600 this was a nice little follow up to the fall out of it. My biggest complaint was the artwork for this. Alberti isn't horrible and there were panels, namely when Spidey was saving the people in the fire, where it really was looking nice, but just some of the panels looked very amateur. Like you would have seen him doing the artwork in the Spider-Man Unlimited book. I think Alberti needs a lot more fine tuning before you put him on The Amazing Spider-Man. Because, as all us long time comics fans know, bad artwork can really take you out of the story.

What I really liked are how they are addressing the continuity stuff now, especially after reading the Dark Reign: Goblin Legacy, it's very good to see how this "deal" MJ made is going to work. I enjoyed that very much. Pete actually showed up on time for something, haha. It was too good to be true!

And the Michelle situation definitely makes it interesting. I liked what she did to him at the end of the story. Heh. Kind of like the character of Michelle. This was more of a great story on the Parker luck. Everywhere he turned he couldn't catch a break. In the end...he kind of catches a break but there is ALWAYS a catch.

The backup story with Jessica Jones was pretty good too. I am a reader of New Avengers so the developments from this could be very interesting for the team. Though I don't think Luke will be too happy about Pete inspiring his lady. We'll just have to see how things work out.

Good issue, I just hope they let Alberti develop on a lesser known title and that he isn't do the whole month. Nothing against him but it's just very hit and miss in the issue.

 

[The Bruce]

I don't get all the complaining about the book. If you guys removed the rose-colored glasses for a bit Spider-man has had MUCH Worse periods. The stories are actually good and have a Spider-man "core" feel to them again.

Remember Howard Mackie? Byrne? JMS' run turned into X-files type "occult mystery hour" feat. Spider-man. The stories sucked!


Seriously if you want to better the book right now - give me Mark Millar or do the Batman and give Greg Wiseman a run.

 

[JerseyJoker]

Its funny for people to try and have morals, "Oh man, drinking that much is such a college thing."

Get over it, people always try to make it seem like Peter has it all under control, that is not his character, so making a big mistake, getting a little drunk mistakenly is a mistake Peter parker the person would do. People try to stand on this high moral ground now that anyone that partakes in drinking at a party and ends up in a one night stand (a reasonable one at that, since both where trashed and live together), they they are bad. Get off it.

Talking about the issue, great to see MJ still knows he's Spidey, loved the art in this one, just the look to Spidey himself, just really popped for me, just a nice design page to page.

 

[farmernudie]

FANGEDHUNTER: I simply don't post much anymore. Only once in a while do I go so far as to type up my thoughts...but

Yep. They're doing it. They're pushing me to quit reading Spider-Man after 18 years.

And that's where my reasoning is. I'm 28 years old. I started reading Spidey when I was 10. There was wisecracks and punches to the face. But there wasn't irresponsibility with alcohol and one night stands with a random girl you've known and are living with for the past, what is it comic-wise, three or four weeks? Is this what I'd give a 10 year old to read?

I'm disappointed with Marvel, that's what it boils down to. As for the argument "He's single, he can get laid" argument. I find that not only a bad argument, but part of the problem to begin with. Yeah, I'm only 28 and I really am this old fashioned, but sex is supposed to be something that brings two people together in deeper ways. Not a quick bang to get a quick feel-good.

And for the record, he's not single. The marriage wasn't really erased. It's been described from the start that "it's as if it never happened." Nobody remembers it, things were altered as if it hadn't occurred. That doesn't mean it really didn't.

But what really grinds my gears about this is that Peter seems more confused than guilt-ridden. Personally, I would have written him feeling like the lowest scum of the Earth, like a husband that just cheated on his wife and no explainable understanding of why he feels that way. Because remember what Mephisto said was his gain in this. Some part of MJ and Peter, some tiny little piece of their soul deep down will know what they've lost and that will always gnaw at them. No matter who they meet, no matter what they do, they will always feel a little empty inside. That little inner suffering is supposedly why Mephisto offered the damn deal in the first place.

But no, not in today's age. Go get drunk, screw around, have sex, sleep with whoever, and although you'll feel bad for calling the girl by another name for about 10 minutes, you'll get over it. It's all good. Do comics reflect life or does life reflect art? Yeah, I'm willing to say it at the risk of sound prudish; this exemplifies the moral corruption of our society. Sex means nothing. Marriage means nothing.

This isn't the Spider-Man I grew up with and actually did a presentation in college on; Spider-Man as a Role Model (the embracing of an ideal rather than a person as a role model). This isn't the comic book I can tell people to give their kids anymore. And no, you shouldn't have to pick up Spider-Man Family for kids. There's no REASON for comics to cater to prime time television style to be a good story.

And yeah, part of it is just a continued disgust as Marvel's abandonment of the marriage due to their own inadequacies. Take a look at Burn Notice on USA sometime. An ex-spy & former Navy SEAL are the two main protagonists, and much like Spidey with MJ, they try to keep the ex-spy's mother out of what's going on and keep her in the dark. More than once, she's gotten involved, contributed, and even manipulated bad guys to give info where interrogation wasn't working.

Where was that side of the marriage? The support from MJ, her involvement, her actual contribution to what he did? For that matter, look at Law & Order SVU's handling of Elliot Stabler's marriage, even with rough patches, separations and near-divorce before reconciliation.

Wolverine's the bad boy; he has one night stands.
Spider-Man is the moral high ground, the one you can aspire to be like. He's a hero because he IS better than average.

I've got to agree, this was way out of character for him. Marvel's on a slippery slope with my continued reading, especially when canceling would save me some cash these days.

Or hell at the very least make his one night stand be with a well drawn Felicia Hardy. >_>

Whew...rant over.

Very well written.

I totally share your view. Lots of people do, on messge boards everywhere.

If this was Iron Man, no one would care or be talking...imo. But this is Pete.

Peter Parker, the guy who always does the right thing, SOMEHOW.

Yet, in this new rebooted world, for the first time in my whole life collecting this, buying this,....i am seeing Peter as a loser, and not heroic, and not doing the right thing. I don't look up to this bum at all...instead i wince....

If you're cool with Pete making deals with the devil, letting evil win, and having Pete get drunk to the point he has sex and forgets with whom...well, more power to you. But, this is such a sad statement for the state of comics and for Marvel's flagship character.

They are losing more and more real good fans, customers, who've always supported this, like myself, and for what reason? shock and awe? Why pump up the controversy? Have we run out of good story telling ideas, so we're just resorting to sex and gimmicky stuff that causes HYPE of ANY sort, good or bad??

ANd when they eventually are back together and remember they are married, do we need to have the couple figuring out how many people they had sex with when they didn't know they were married?

I'd like Amazing Spider-Man back, and not 9021moreday drama tween tv.

And, it is funny, how you're mocked as a fan, if you aren't for drunkenness and one night stands. I mean, my firends and I are actually pretty "hip" I'd say...but none of us are that....scummy....

I don't know anymore. This reboot of Pete perplexes me.

 

[farmernudie]

And yes, as another poster commented, as have i....

HOW MUCH BEER MUST A PETER CHUCK IF A PETER GETS DRUNK TO THE POINT OF TOTAL NO RECALL???

As we've seen in numerous stories...Pete's body processes toxins of any sort in his body very quickly, way faster than the common man, if they could at all. He has often commented he just needs to "wait things out" when things get into his system and that he'll be beter shortly...and ready to act...

So Peter had to be pretty amazingly smashed to oblivion to have enough alcohol in him to make him sleep with someone and not remember the morning after!

 

[JerseyJoker]

It's not like he blacked out. A. Peter is obvious a lightweight, so it probably took 4-5 strong drinks to do the damage and its not like he didn't remember at all, he had a hangover, he forgot details when he was drunk...call me weird...but THAT HAPPENS.

 

[Styleshift]

I left these boards out of frustration, and I don't plan on sticking around for more than a few minutes but I'd like to say something.

Has anyone here read Web of Spider-man # 38?

He was drunk in that story as well.

Between him nearly compromising his secret identity and getting himself killed by the hobgoblin (as well as endangering the lives of others), he made a decision to never drink again. This has also been referenced many times after wards by other writers.

See the problem is, alot of posters feel that having Peter do stupid irresponsible things like getting drunk while he has super human powers humanizes him...

What if Michelle had an STD? What if Peter bounced around like Spidey during the wedding?? What if Michelle got pregnant? So many things can happen while a person is drunk. Irresponsible things....so trying to make it all "ok" when this book is marketed A for children 9 on up also is plain unacceptable. Granted this isn't the first time something inappropriate has happened. But this is the main character here for crying out loud! What message are they trying to send to the readers?

This is a character that is a walking loading gun. Imagine if you had a gun strapped to your waist at all times. Would any of you be so careless to get drunk?

That is all........because I guarantee you most of you will not even take my post seriously.

EDIT: I didn't care to read the main issue for 601 (nor do i care to read anything that comes out of the current creative team)
but a friend got me to read the back up story and Bendis got it right.
Spider-man is supposed to be a character that lives by and passes on "With great power comes great responsibility."

His problems are reflected by the fact that he is spider-man and NOT his stupid choices. He should be faced with situations that humanizes him (like wanting to rob a bank for personal reasons) but at the end of the day he should always do whats right.

 

[Styleshift]

I simply don't post much anymore. Only once in a while do I go so far as to type up my thoughts...but

Yep. They're doing it. They're pushing me to quit reading Spider-Man after 18 years.

And that's where my reasoning is. I'm 28 years old. I started reading Spidey when I was 10. There was wisecracks and punches to the face. But there wasn't irresponsibility with alcohol and one night stands with a random girl you've known and are living with for the past, what is it comic-wise, three or four weeks? Is this what I'd give a 10 year old to read?

I'm disappointed with Marvel, that's what it boils down to. As for the argument "He's single, he can get laid" argument. I find that not only a bad argument, but part of the problem to begin with. Yeah, I'm only 28 and I really am this old fashioned, but sex is supposed to be something that brings two people together in deeper ways. Not a quick bang to get a quick feel-good.

And for the record, he's not single. The marriage wasn't really erased. It's been described from the start that "it's as if it never happened." Nobody remembers it, things were altered as if it hadn't occurred. That doesn't mean it really didn't.

But what really grinds my gears about this is that Peter seems more confused than guilt-ridden. Personally, I would have written him feeling like the lowest scum of the Earth, like a husband that just cheated on his wife and no explainable understanding of why he feels that way. Because remember what Mephisto said was his gain in this. Some part of MJ and Peter, some tiny little piece of their soul deep down will know what they've lost and that will always gnaw at them. No matter who they meet, no matter what they do, they will always feel a little empty inside. That little inner suffering is supposedly why Mephisto offered the damn deal in the first place.

But no, not in today's age. Go get drunk, screw around, have sex, sleep with whoever, and although you'll feel bad for calling the girl by another name for about 10 minutes, you'll get over it. It's all good. Do comics reflect life or does life reflect art? Yeah, I'm willing to say it at the risk of sound prudish; this exemplifies the moral corruption of our society. Sex means nothing. Marriage means nothing.

This isn't the Spider-Man I grew up with and actually did a presentation in college on; Spider-Man as a Role Model (the embracing of an ideal rather than a person as a role model). This isn't the comic book I can tell people to give their kids anymore. And no, you shouldn't have to pick up Spider-Man Family for kids. There's no REASON for comics to cater to prime time television style to be a good story.

And yeah, part of it is just a continued disgust as Marvel's abandonment of the marriage due to their own inadequacies. Take a look at Burn Notice on USA sometime. An ex-spy & former Navy SEAL are the two main protagonists, and much like Spidey with MJ, they try to keep the ex-spy's mother out of what's going on and keep her in the dark. More than once, she's gotten involved, contributed, and even manipulated bad guys to give info where interrogation wasn't working.

Where was that side of the marriage? The support from MJ, her involvement, her actual contribution to what he did? For that matter, look at Law & Order SVU's handling of Elliot Stabler's marriage, even with rough patches, separations and near-divorce before reconciliation.

Wolverine's the bad boy; he has one night stands.
Spider-Man is the moral high ground, the one you can aspire to be like. He's a hero because he IS better than average.

I've got to agree, this was way out of character for him. Marvel's on a slippery slope with my continued reading, especially when canceling would save me some cash these days.

Or hell at the very least make his one night stand be with a well drawn Felicia Hardy. >_>

Whew...rant over.

Well said. VERY well said.

I didn't make quite as good points as you did. But I was told that I was "instilling my own morals into the character." While other posters have clearly used their own experiences to justify this story arc.

I've had a girlfriend cheat on me with an older guy (NO ONE saw it coming) and I didn't go around telling people that Sins past was a good story.

Anyways,

Before all of this happened I gave BND an honest shot. I was even excited for the upcoming stories that were shown in issue 600. Peter had just started acting like he should in American son. Like he's been Spidey for a while.

But this? If this is where they want to take the character than my stops here. I'll catch the next creative team train. I have never NEVER been so disgusted with a Spider-man title. Not even One more day got me feeling this way.

As you pointed out "getting drunk and getting laid by a woman you just met" isn't the most heroic thing. Nor is it the most common thing. Peter is unlucky BECAUSE he is responsible. Not because he does irresponsible things.
I've read ALOT of Spidey stories and the best ones, the most entertaining ones have always made me aspire to be like him.

We don't remember stories like peter having a one night stand with betty brant. (Which I like how some posters use that to justify this situation while they had history, unlike Michelle. You can also point out that she had been separated. Even if you want to say he's made mistakes like this before, ok show of hands: who wants him to make another mephisto deal? He's done that before. That makes it ok right??)

NO
We remember the stories where Peter faces adversity, the ones where he applies the best known quote in comics "with great power comes great responsibility".

That's why after 40 plus years stories like the master planner are being remembered with such fondness. Things like The death of gwen stacy (where most of us probably would have killed) have shown what a great character peter is.

 

[Venom 1988]

Peter got drunk, had a one night stand, and that's it! He realizes its a mistake people, it's not like he's gonna start banging up women left and right jesus.

And to the people talking about Pete's alcohol tolerance, it all depends on the writer. Theoretically it would take a hell of a lot of alcohol to get Wolverine drunk but I've read tons of stories were Logan is drunk from just a couple of beers. You can't find logic in things like that when it changes from writer to writer.

 

[Fanged-Hunter]

The thought struck me today for some reason...

What if Pete did continue to act out of character due to missteps and lapses in judgment? What if he did let his strength go a bit too far and injure someone? What if he did do a few things that are out of character for him?

And what if, in the long run, he was being just a bit affected by that now-forgotten deal with the devil?

Just sayin' in the merry Marvel way....WHAT IF?...

 

[Styleshift]

Peter got drunk, had a one night stand, and that's it! He realizes its a mistake people, it's not like he's gonna start banging up women left and right jesus.

And to the people talking about Pete's alcohol tolerance, it all depends on the writer. Theoretically it would take a hell of a lot of alcohol to get Wolverine drunk but I've read tons of stories were Logan is drunk from just a couple of beers. You can't find logic in things like that when it changes from writer to writer.

*sigh* You miss my point Venom1988

I know this is not going to become the "adventures of drunk Spider-man"
I know that. I swear.

This book is rated A.
It's marketed 9 and up.

Basically everyone that is all for this is saying:

It's ok as long as their were no repercussions.

Do we really want younger readers with that same kind of mindset?
When I was a kid I looked up to Peter. That's what made me a hard core fan.

Can you respect that at least? You know, without blowing off my strong feelings about this and many other stories like Paparazzi Peter Parker?
I didn't quit on the book just because of this story ya know. I haven't been entertained by more than 10 stories since this whole thing kicked off. I was EXCITED for next years stories until I saw this preview.

Now I see where they want Spider-man, and as long as they are writing him...this title no longer interests me.
EDIT: Also seeing a post where Wacker insults George Berryman didn't help either.