Comics Amazing Spider-Man #607 Spoilers/discussion

[stillanerd]

Well, since this issue came out today, might as well start this thread:

Spoiler

The comic opens with Spidey and Black Cat's discarded costumes and then showing Peter and Felicia naked in bed in post-coital bliss. That's right folks, they had sex. Oh, but Felicia STILL doesn't know Peter is Spider-Man because apparently, Felicia made a promise not to look at his face while he was unmasked while they were getting it on. Felicia then leaves when Peter tries to get all serious, and then two people enter the room. Apparently, Spidey and the Black Cat broke into a hotel room in order to sleep together and it turned out it was already occupied.

Later Spidey and Black Cat team-up against Diablo again, whom we learn was in the process of collecting on a 20 year old insurance scam. Apparently, Dexter Bennet and a guy named Mayer went into the construction business together and were responsible for building most of the buildings in Manhattan. Diablo, however, sold them faulty steel that was specifically designed to corrode within 20 years, and took out, in advance, insurance policies on "catastrophic events" knowing full well the collapsed buildings would be seen as accidental.

The Daily Bugle (or DB) publishes the photo of Spidey and the Black Cat kissing from last issue.

Spidey is not sure whether or not he can trust Black Cat, but they decide to get back together again anyway because he figures since they have a history together, she deserves a second chance. And they have the upside down kiss thing.

Oh, and Ana Kravinoff (Kraven's daughter) approaches Diablo (who escaped from Spidey and Black Cat of course) to recruit him for his help in taking down Spider-Man.

 

[Venom 1988]

hit that cat

 

[Fanged-Hunter]

While I still don't like the writers taking Spider-Man to the "modern times" of being the type to sleep around (whatever happened to the guy whose bad luck prevents him from getting the girl, let alone every drop dead super model bodied bombshell in NYC?) with just about whatever they decide to toss him in bed with...

I have to say I laughed at Felicia's flirting being as bad as Spidey's endless wisecracks.

Still not a fan of the direction they've taken the comic. Definitely not something I'd give my kid to read if I had one. I always liked Spider-Man as an ideology, a role model for young readers. I just don't see it after BND.

On the other hand, I REALLY don't like Felicia's development as a character over the last couple decades being thrown out the window as quickly as the marriage and starting her back to how she was at the very beginning of her appearances. Makes The Evil That Men Do seem like it was a pointless endeavor. She was a confidant, a trusted friend, someone Spidey could rely on. Now she's just that floozy he fooled around with a while back and she's eager and happy to fool around again. But she doesn't want to see his face, only wants the sex and fun, and doesn't seem like she's got any of the complexity she developed over the years.

Brand New Day has started to really feel like Stale Old Day rehashing everything from the 70s and early 80s with nothing anywhere in the book giving me an impression of a fresh start of moving forward. It's just moving back and starting over without a relaunch to start over.

I still buy it because I've found every story arc I hate is eventually followed with one I love and I will have a compulsion to fill in those missing issues. However, I'm not happy seeing 3 issues a month and now another Spidey title on the way.

 

[iloveclones]

That was one awesome cover.

 

[stillanerd]

All right, here are some of my more in-depth thoughts about this issue:

Spoiler

*It’s too bad J. Scott Campbell couldn’t do the rest of the artwork for this issue unlike his rather gorgeous “pin-up” cover, because I certainly consider this issue to be a step-down in the art chores. It’s a really bad sign when you have to have a fill-in artist to finish out the issue, especially when those styles completely and utterly contrast badly with one another. Mike McKone’s art was pretty much the same as it was last time, as while the characters are properly rendered, it gets really cramped in places. The only panel which worked, strangely enough, was the first one showing Spidey and Black Cat’s discarded costumes in an all too suggestive pose. Yet Adrina Melo’s art? BLEECH! It’s like every character was a bodybuilder with cramped muscles. Compared to the first year of BND, one wonders whether or not the nearly weekly comic format on Amazing is getting too much for these guys.

*Now as for Spidey and the Black Cat hooking up and becoming an item once again, I don’t particularly mind it…much. After all, as this issue hints, you know that Peter is making a big mistake in getting back together with Felicia, the even he knows that it’s not a good idea several times, only he doesn’t really care at this point because he‘s just so turned on by her--which, of course, will come back to bite him in the butt. There’s enough here to suggest things will begin to sour once Spidey desires his new-found relationship with Felicia to become more serious than just “friends with benefits.” Not to mention he also has no idea who Black Cat was working for or why they were after Bennet originally, so that’s also going to come back and bite him in the butt as well.

*No, my problem is that with this issue and as well as with last week’s, is that by taking Spidey and Felicia’s relationship back to square one, it doesn’t feel the least bit fresh or inspired. And since we are essentially told that it’s not going to be anything more than just sex between them and that it’s going to end badly eventually, there just doesn’t seem to be much emotional investment in them rekindling their “relationship.” Not to mention that Felicia Hardy, despite all the development she’s undergone with Spidey over the years, is now essentially reduced to “Spidey's kinky booty-call.”

*As for Diablo and his whole insurance scam on collecting on policies for buildings he knows will collapse in 20 years, you could tell what a Macguffin it actually was. Oh sure, it gave us an excuse to explore Dexter Bennet’s background a bit more in that he did some shady real estate and construction deals with the Diablo’s murder victim in the past (although he still feels like a generic J. Jonah Jameson clone still). And true it brought Diablo into the fold, as it were, for what the brain trust/webheads are setting up for Spider-Man with Kraven’s widow and daughter and the whole upcoming Gauntlet storyline. And yes, it provided a visual cue to where things are eventually heading with Spidey and the Black Cat as the building implodes the moment they share the “upside down kiss” as seen between Spider-Man and MJ from the first movie. But all in all, you could tell it really wasn’t that important to the overall story. Not to mention that Diablo, despite his alchemy powers, still comes off like a friggin joke.

*And maybe it’s just me, but Kelly’s humor just fell forced to me yet again. I suppose you could say that Spidey scrambling out of the hotel room when the newlyweds came in with his costume barely on might be amusing for some, but it just seemed all too obvious. Likewise with Black Cat’s joke about Diablo not reading the super villain manual when it came to explaining his “master plan.” At least last issue’s had a bit more punch to it.

So, while I don’t think the “Back in Black Cat” story was particularly bad per see, it was incredibly disappointing. Nothing against those who like Spidey and the Black Cat “teaming up” again, as it were, but for all the suggestiveness and naughtiness Felicia usually brings, it just didn’t live up to the expectations. Better luck next time, guys.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

All the sleeping around is out of character for Peter. Not due to any moral reason, but because he's supposed to be a bit socially awkward. If he wasn't, he would have shacked up with Randi, Candi and Bambi back in the day (perhaps even at the same time). Maybe he's just on a streak.

 

[iloveclones]

Too lazy to write it again, so here's what I said in the Amazing thread:

I liked the new issue. I didn't think it was anything great, and truth be told, I'm always a little uncomfortable with sex in comics, whether it's implied or otherwise, but I think that's just the normal prudishness that comes with age. On the other hand, I don't see why I should hold Amazing to a higher standard than Fables. In the end, I buy these comics for me, not for some principle, or the purification of America, or the good of all mankind. If Marvel existed solely for making comics just for me, that would be just fine.

All that said, it was an awesome cover (EDIT: and now I sound a little too enthusiastic writing that twice!). And the first few pages I though were well done. I like the twisted relationship that Spidey and BC have, and I'm sure it will lead to no good. Hopefully, it will lead to LOTS of no good.

I see a lot of people say that this is regressing the BC character. I suppose it is. But she had become very generic to me over last few years (decades). So, just like MJ, if a little regression is what it takes for me to enjoy her being in the pages of Amazing again, so be it. I love progression, but just like continuity, when it becomes a noose around your neck, I'd rather just cut it and start over. But that's just my personal preference. I can see why people get upset.

I love McKone's art, but was really put off by the fill-in art. I know Marvel is really pushing the 3x a month thing, but I'd rather them be late. Not a huge gripe, though.

All in all, I give it a healthy B.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

Call me lazy, too. What I posted in the other thread:

My opinion of the latest issue mirrors pretty much what stillanerd and farmernudie said.

I was having a discussion with Meehaul on the Steve Ditko thread in the Spider-Man forum about at what point do you freeze the character. Well, I guess we got Marvel's answer: the mid '80's. (Which actually is one of my two favorite eras)

Anyway, I was excited to see Black Cat back in the mix if we're forced with single Pete. But, yes, her development is gone. And for those who said she went bland, I would blame it again on the writers for writing an exciting character bland, like what I said about the MJ criticisms.

I'll throw this one out there. What if she did look at Pete's face and kept it to herself. Based on the "unmasking/remasking rules," she would remember everything again. This would give her back her development, but for the time being, decides to keep the cards to herself, and continues to play mid-'80's dumb. Maybe a plan to win out over MJ this time around? Just a thought.

And at the risk of being called a prude, the sex stuff in the beginning was a little out of place. I mean, I started reading and collecting Spider-Man when I was 8. And back then, there was only Amazing (and Marvel Team-Up & Marvel Tales), no kiddie Marvel Adventure versions. I would not want my 9 year old to read this (heck I would not want my 12 year old to read it!).

I remember at the end of the original clone saga (mid '70's) when Pete said he wanted show MJ how much he missed her and closed the door. I saw many on these boards claim that that was probably the first time Pete & MJ "hooked up." When I was a kid, that went over my head, I assumed it was just a lot of kissing involved. I mean the comic industry claims it wants to attract younger readers. Can't they be a little subtle?

And again, the portrayal of Pete seems off in this. I seem to remember him being a little awkward about these things, a bit embarrassed in fact. And I don't mean just the 60's. He's been like that in the 70's & 80's as well.

The cover was great and most of the art was good.

Oh, and not a fan of this little miss Kraven, either. In fact I only like Kraven in small doses. And this may get me run off these boards, but, I did not like "Kraven's Last Hunt." Now, I certainly don't like all this son & daughter & ex-wives of Kraven stuff (though Calypso was pretty cool). I hope this Kraven family stuff doesn't drag out too long.

 

[MyPokerShirt]

Back in Black Cat is a disgusting pun and someone should get a warning for going ahead and actually calling it that...

 

[Spider-Gnome]

Um, I believe Marvel is the one that named the arc that...

 

[Hobgoblin]

That was one awesome cover.

Yes it was, until they added the "meow." That took something cool and made it campy.

It seemed like a "filler" issue. Not much going on, besides the set ups involving the Kravinoffs and MJ seeing Spidey and Cat kiss.

 

[carnageehw]

Nothing makes me more angry than immature, juvenile sex stories.

They are trying to give peter "problems" in his relationships, but they are doing it by having peter bang chicks, rather than the much more interesting emotional involvement.

Instead of "oh, which one does peter like more, ehich girl is better for him?". Its now "peter slept with them because he was horny".

Its juvenille and lazy writing.

Its also hard to get behind a characters probems when they are caused by his own stupidity of sleeping around.

Its not a moral thing, if my buddy sleeps around, good for him. But don't expect me to feel sorry for him when one girl finds out he screwed around on her, and now he's in a a jam.

 

[Themanofbat]

I dunno... Peter obviously felt that sleeping with Michelle was an error on his part, and he's had history of sleeping with the Black Cat... and let's face it... after 5 years with MJ (20 years in our time), he's going to "hook-up" with "rebound girl"... it invariably happens after long-term relationships come to an end...

Just my thoughts...

 

[carnageehw]

and let's face it... after 5 years with MJ (20 years in our time), he's going to "hook-up" with "rebound girl"... it invariably happens after long-term relationships come to an end...

Just my thoughts...

Leaving out the "its out of character" argument, which I find neither here nor there, my complaint isn't that peter sleeping around isn't realistic for some people...its that I HATE the stupid drama situations that come from those situations.

I prefer (and don't take this as an insult please) emotionally involved, intellectual problems, rather than the cheap "you thoguth with you little head, and now there are problems!" Route.

The best relationship storylines are slow builds, with teasing and concious, emotionally driven decisions. Not "I'm horney, let's screw...oops! Feelings are hurt"

Any reasonably smart person knows that if you sleep around your gonna get yourself into annoying problems. And that's my issue: its a stupid way to manufacture cheap drama.

We need emotional relationship development, not sex driven development

 

[farmernudie]

I dunno, now that Pete is no longer married to a woman with an actual job, and is instead breaking into hotel rooms to have sex with thieves that promise to not look at him....I'm relating to Pete better now more than ever!

 

[Meehaul]

I wish, if they were going to retcon things, they'd return Pete to his more interesting roots as a loner who didn't "get the girl" in every conceivable situation. In fact, what might be interesting is the Pete who is unable to get the girl, and Spider-Man, who, because of the Black Cat's interest, IS able to score. That works much better for me than the Pete married to a hot model/actress thing or Pete with a harem and is part of the whole Peter Parker as tragic figure and Spider-Man as heroic figure motiff.

 

[mre]

Yeah. They've destroyed Pete's character.

 

[Meehaul]

Naw, its just a bump in the road. I thought the marriage was a disaster, but Pete survived it. He's survived a lot of garbage Marvel's dumped on him over the years. I'm still hoping the version I prefer, Tragic Pete/Hero Spidey manages to surface again. They had to get rid of the marriage to return to that characterization, so I'm hoping they're headed in the right direction. I just wish they'd killed MJ off or handled the ret con a whole lot better. I'm just not keen at seeing Pete with women dripping off every arm.

 

[carnageehw]

I wish, if they were going to retcon things, they'd return Pete to his more interesting roots as a loner who didn't "get the girl" in every conceivable situation. In fact, what might be interesting is the Pete who is unable to get the girl, and Spider-Man, who, because of the Black Cat's interest, IS able to score. That works much better for me than the Pete married to a hot model/actress thing or Pete with a harem and is part of the whole Peter Parker as tragic figure and Spider-Man as heroic figure motiff.

This makes a lot of sense and it's a very good idea.

Unfortunatley, Pimp-er Parker is the direction we're headed.

The "don't look at my face during sex" thing is stupid as well.

 

[Hobgoblin]

This makes a lot of sense and it's a very good idea.

Unfortunatley, Pimp-er Parker is the direction we're headed.

The "don't look at my face during sex" thing is stupid as well.

Why didnt he just roll his mask up half way?

 

[bulletbillx]

Naw, its just a bump in the road. I thought the marriage was a disaster, but Pete survived it. He's survived a lot of garbage Marvel's dumped on him over the years. I'm still hoping the version I prefer, Tragic Pete/Hero Spidey manages to surface again. They had to get rid of the marriage to return to that characterization, so I'm hoping they're headed in the right direction. I just wish they'd killed MJ off or handled the ret con a whole lot better. I'm just not keen at seeing Pete with women dripping off every arm.

possibly, but they shouldnt have done the devil deal to get there. if anything they should have just divorced around civil war, or they could have waited and had osborn kill her "for teh lulz" on his part during the dark reign somehow.

Also this making peter a pimp is just stupid.

 

[mre]

Let's use the correct terminology. Not pimp. Playa.

 

[DACrowe]

I don't have a problem with Peter sleeping with Felicia. It was obvious they were doing it in the '80s in a 1940s Hollywood kind of way. Now it is more explicit. Whatever.

M y problem is this another example of bad writing. BC was actually quite interesting when she was first introduced as a semi-villain who falls in love with Spidey and they become partners. This is going back to BC after they wrote her out of the series as a girl who just wants to have one night stands with Peter (the same kind of writing that Peter did while semi-dating MJ about four issues prior to him PROPOSING MARRIAGE TO MJ). In fact they'll just recreate that scene where MJ comes to make Pete breakfast and finds Black Cat in his kitchen wearing his shirt. They're assuming fans have no memories or back issues and youngin's won't know any better.

Meanwhile all the great development Kevin Smith, Mark Miller and Dan Slott made with her this decade is out the window. She became the friend, the confidant. The most trusted person Peter could turn to for help who was extremely lonely because she was still hung up on Peter and wanted a serious relationship with him, but the boat has sailed and she is alone. And somewhat spiteful. Meanwhile MJ and Aunt May simply do not trust or like her, even when she saves Peter's life multiple times.

There was a great tension building here. Now she is a sex toy for Peter and his vicarious readers.

Weak.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

I don't have a problem with Peter sleeping with Felicia. It was obvious they were doing it in the '80s in a 1940s Hollywood kind of way. Now it is more explicit. Whatever.

M y problem is this another example of bad writing. BC was actually quite interesting when she was first introduced as a semi-villain who falls in love with Spidey and they become partners. This is going back to BC after they wrote her out of the series as a girl who just wants to have one night stands with Peter (the same kind of writing that Peter did while semi-dating MJ about four issues prior to him PROPOSING MARRIAGE TO MJ). In fact they'll just recreate that scene where MJ comes to make Pete breakfast and finds Black Cat in his kitchen wearing his shirt. They're assuming fans have no memories or back issues and youngin's won't know any better.

Meanwhile all the great development Kevin Smith, Mark Miller and Dan Slott made with her this decade is out the window. She became the friend, the confidant. The most trusted person Peter could turn to for help who was extremely lonely because she was still hung up on Peter and wanted a serious relationship with him, but the boat has sailed and she is alone. And somewhat spiteful. Meanwhile MJ and Aunt May simply do not trust or like her, even when she saves Peter's life multiple times.

There was a great tension building here. Now she is a sex toy for Peter and his vicarious readers.

Weak.

She was not wearing his shirt. She is fully dressed in her then Black Cat outfit (minus the mask) which was the white outfit with the ugly black jacket (as Pete called it). And I just addressed this in the Amazing Spider-Man V.2 thread in the Marvel section of these boards.

Cat's apartment had been firebombed and Pete was at a vulnerable moment and let her stay over. He even thinks to himself he felt skeevy when MJ came over and found Felicia there.

But, your point is true that Marvel is going over much of this material again.

 

[Themanofbat]

But lest we forget that most of this happened some 23 years ago... sure, it can be seen as "lazy writing", but it may also simply be Marvel's attempt to recapture what they feel they've lost with certain characters and THEN they can forge ahead...

And SG... what about those comments from Peter during the Gang War where he's always "complaining" that MJ is still in his apartment? I've heard people state that he's merely covering up "feelings", but it doesn't necessarily come across that way...

Just wondering what your thoughts were?