Amazon's Rings of Power - General Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)

[Marvolo]

He hasn’t been the head of the Tolkien Estate since 2017, and while he was certainly no fan of the movies, he also didn’t stand in Peter Jackson’s way.

He didnt like Jackson's films and I'm sure he would have stopped those films if he could have. He also hasnt let any other films or shows be made or allowed any Sil material to be adapted. Its very likely this Amazon show is only happening because he wasnt in complete control anymore.

 

[THORin]

Honestly I agree with him about The Silmarillion, but maybe that’s just me. Considering that it is at least partially his, I think it’s understandable he wanted and got final say over it.

 

[TheGuy]

Nazanin.

 

[Persona]

I think this is a good thing for Middle Earth. Chris Tolkien was a wonderful and indispensable curator of Tolkien's written material, but Chris's time was long past, and he was holding the property back in other mediums.

Well, uh, that's one way to react to someone passing away.

 

[Boom]

The work that Christopher Tolkien did to perpetuate his father's legacy far outweighs any misgivings he had about film adaptations.

 

[THORin]

The work that Christopher Tolkien did to perpetuate his father's legacy far outweighs any misgivings he had about film adaptations.

I agree. We wouldn’t even have The Silmarillion, or much of the material necessary for the Amazon Prime series, without Christopher.

 

[InCali]

I was just thinking about him yesterday. Weird.

 

[Silvermoth]

I understand if people thought he was frustrating (and we probably could have this discussion another time instead of right after his death) but I think him caring for his father’s legacy helped avoid, you know, Gondor with McDonald product placement inside it and endless pointless spin offs etc

 

[InCali]

I understand if people thought he was frustrating (and we probably could have this discussion another time instead of right after his death) but I think him caring for his father’s legacy helped avoid, you know, Gondor with McDonald product placement inside it and endless pointless spin offs etc

I have never been anything but grateful for the service he provided to us by publishing his father's works. We would never, ever have known the volume or the intricacies of his father's writings unless he had spent decades putting the material together. He was really the only one who could have done it and he did. I could never feel anything but gratitude.

 

[DarkKnight88]

I’m grateful for JRR Tolkien. I appreciate what his son did, but I was never a fan of Tolkien’s posthumous work. It took the “fun” out of middle-earth which is why I suspect Tolkien never published it in his lifetime. I don’t think his son ever captured the fun and humour his father had about his world which is what made The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings standout above all the rest.

 

[InCali]

I’m grateful for JRR Tolkien. I appreciate what his son did, but I was never a fan of Tolkien’s posthumous work. It took the “fun” out of middle-earth which is why I suspect Tolkien never published it in his lifetime. I don’t think his son ever captured the fun and humour his father had about his world which is what made The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings standout above all the rest.

That's not correct. I am one of the biggest Tolkien nerds there is....period and I can tell you that it was the inconsistencies that arose over the years of his writing (Which Chris worked with him on). This lead to an almost unimaginable scope of work that his son finally tackled. Chris grew up listening to and understanding his father's tales; even helping with editing. He was, quite literally, the only person on earth who could have taken on this enormous task. Of course, we should all be grateful to JRR Tolkien, but we should never underestimate Chris' contribution to bringing his father's world to the public.

In addition, Tolkien didn't create his world so he could write "fun" books. He wrote it as a linguistic and historical work. Read the forward in, at least most, of his publications of 'The Lord of the Rings".

While not liking the posthumous writings or liking them less is a matter of taste, the contributions of, and hence my gratitude to, Chris are immense.

If you'd like to check out my collection of Tolkien's works, they are on my website. I've since added an original Easton press printing of "The Children of Hurin" *(Narn I Hin Hurin) to my collection. When Easton re-released it, the originals became affordable. Since you liked The Hobbit, you might be interested in checking out the copies I own. I have a very interesting edition in there.

 

[Silvermoth]

I have never been anything but grateful for the service he provided to us by publishing his father's works. We would never, ever have known the volume or the intricacies of his father's writings unless he had spent decades putting the material together. He was really the only one who could have done it and he did. I could never feel anything but gratitude.

thank you, I think without meaning to sometimes people in the fan community forget to say what they’re grateful for. This is especially important when people pass away

 

[DarkKnight88]

That's not correct. I am one of the biggest Tolkien nerds there is....period and I can tell you that it was the inconsistencies that arose over the years of his writing (Which Chris worked with him on). This lead to an almost unimaginable scope of work that his son finally tackled. Chris grew up listening to and understanding his father's tales; even helping with editing. He was, quite literally, the only person on earth who could have taken on this enormous task. Of course, we should all be grateful to JRR Tolkien, but we should never underestimate Chris' contribution to bringing his father's world to the public.

In addition, Tolkien didn't create his world so he could write "fun" books. He wrote it as a linguistic and historical work. Read the forward in, at least most, of his publications of 'The Lord of the Rings".

While not liking the posthumous writings or liking them less is a matter of taste, the contributions of, and hence my gratitude to, Chris are immense.

If you'd like to check out my collection of Tolkien's works, they are on my website. I've since added an original Easton press printing of "The Children of Hurin" *(Narn I Hin Hurin) to my collection. When Easton re-released it, the originals became affordable. Since you liked The Hobbit, you might be interested in checking out the copies I own. I have a very interesting edition in there.

Thanks for the info. And I believe you on his intentions. And again, I’m not knocking the contributions of his son for his posthumous work. It’s an accomplishment.

But I didn’t mean that Tolkien set out to write a “fun” book with Lord of the Rings, what I said was that it felt more accessible by adding fun elements and humour that I thought his posthumous works lacked. That doesn’t mean I don’t think he took the world he created seriously. Just that he made it entertaining for all to enjoy as well. That his son felt the movies opened the audience to teenagers felt off base considering Tolkien seemed to be reaching everyone and the common person with having hobbits as his lead characters.

 

[Mjolnir Reborn]

That's not correct. I am one of the biggest Tolkien nerds there is....period and I can tell you that it was the inconsistencies that arose over the years of his writing (Which Chris worked with him on). This lead to an almost unimaginable scope of work that his son finally tackled. Chris grew up listening to and understanding his father's tales; even helping with editing. He was, quite literally, the only person on earth who could have taken on this enormous task. Of course, we should all be grateful to JRR Tolkien, but we should never underestimate Chris' contribution to bringing his father's world to the public.

In addition, Tolkien didn't create his world so he could write "fun" books. He wrote it as a linguistic and historical work. Read the forward in, at least most, of his publications of 'The Lord of the Rings".

While not liking the posthumous writings or liking them less is a matter of taste, the contributions of, and hence my gratitude to, Chris are immense.

If you'd like to check out my collection of Tolkien's works, they are on my website. I've since added an original Easton press printing of "The Children of Hurin" *(Narn I Hin Hurin) to my collection. When Easton re-released it, the originals became affordable. Since you liked The Hobbit, you might be interested in checking out the copies I own. I have a very interesting edition in there.

Those are some really nice editions you have there. That was fun to see.

I have a Silmarillion and LotR in the same style as your Harper Collins Silmarillion, but mine are all black and gold (both from the 90s I think). The LotR one has a cloth bound case, and I think the leather case came as they released Silmarillion later on. Mine aren't true collector's items though as I have read mine, and it actually enhanced the experience as I absolutely love the smell of the bible thin pages. That smell is forever linked to the feeling of Middle-Earth for me.

 

[InCali]

Thanks for the info. And I believe you on his intentions. And again, I’m not knocking the contributions of his son for his posthumous work. It’s an accomplishment.

But I didn’t mean that Tolkien set out to write a “fun” book with Lord of the Rings, what I said was that it felt more accessible by adding fun elements and humour that I thought his posthumous works lacked. That doesn’t mean I don’t think he took the world he created seriously. Just that he made it entertaining for all to enjoy as well. That his son felt the movies opened the audience to teenagers felt off base considering Tolkien seemed to be reaching everyone and the common person with having hobbits as his lead characters.

Hey. No worries. I'm a total nut when it comes to Tolkien and suck up every bit of info I can. I get that the tone is very different. If you read Smith of Wootton Major, Farmer Giles of Ham, The Adventures of Tom Bombadil, and Roverandom (which he wrote to console his son Michael when he lost his toy dog on a beach), you'll see a very different style. What Christopher did was open up the foundations to us that made both The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings the definitive works of fantasy. IMO, there have been some outstanding works, but nothing in the genre has surpassed Tolkien's works.

 

[InCali]

Those are some really nice editions you have there. That was fun to see.

I have a Silmarillion and LotR in the same style as your Harper Collins Silmarillion, but mine are all black and gold (both from the 90s I think). The LotR one has a cloth bound case, and I think the leather case came as they released Silmarillion later on. Mine aren't true collector's items though as I have read mine, and it actually enhanced the experience as I absolutely love the smell of the bible thin pages. That smell is forever linked to the feeling of Middle-Earth for me.

I would frelling LOVE to see pictures of those and the printing details. I "think" I know the versions you are talking about, but I am not sure. If you could PM those to me, that would be great. I'd really like to get some older editions, but, man, they are REALLY expensive.

I gave my girl Finarfiniel a really nice edition of The Silmarillion. I miss her. She hasn't been on the hype recently. I should send her a snail mail letter and see how she's doing.

 

[Silvermoth]

I hope we see an episode where the kings get the nine rings. Imagine how sweet that would be? Like starting the episode where they’re good but flawed people and then sauron gives them a ring each and they slowly start to turn into ringwraiths by the episodes end

 

[THORin]

I hope we see an episode where the kings get the nine rings. Imagine how sweet that would be? Like starting the episode where they’re good but flawed people and then sauron gives them a ring each and they slowly start to turn into ringwraiths by the episodes end

I’d expand on this and have them be corrupted over a season long arc - and even keep it unclear, for as long as possible, who actually has one of the Nine Rings. That way the audience can guess along, reading between the lines and picking up the clues, trying to figure out whether it’s one of their favorite characters who’s going to be corrupted, until the end of the season, when you’d see all nine of them come together as the Nazgul.

 

[Silvermoth]

I hope we see the other two blue wizards too

 

[InCali]

I’d expand on this and have them be corrupted over a season long arc - and even keep it unclear, for as long as possible, who actually has one of the Nine Rings. That way the audience can guess along, reading between the lines and picking up the clues, trying to figure out whether it’s one of their favorite characters who’s going to be corrupted, until the end of the season, when you’d see all nine of them come together as the Nazgul.

Frankly, I want to see the entire 2nd age from start to finish, but, hey, my desires are always unrealistic. If it were up to me, it would start with the Ainulindale and Valaquenta and end with Dagor Dagorath. A nearly impossible task, but, like I said......

 

[InCali]

I hope we see the other two blue wizards too

I always wondered what Tolkien's thoughts were on the Ithryn Luin. They went into the east (usually not a good thing LOL) and don't come into the tales of Middle Earth. I always wondered if they became corrupted and served Sauron. I also wonder if he ever thought of Radagast's purpose after the War of the Ring. It seems pretty clear that he didn't return with Gandalf or, probably, ever.

EDIT: Alatar and Pallando (Blue Wizards) were, I believe, both Maiar of Orome. The wizards basically reflected the Vala(r) they served. So, it occurs to me, that as Orome was a great hunter and traveler, they may have given up on Middle Earth and wandered/hunted in the East.

 

[THORin]

I always wondered what Tolkien's thoughts were on the Ithryn Luin. They went into the east (usually not a good thing LOL) and don't come into the tales of Middle Earth. I always wondered if they became corrupted and served Sauron. I also wonder if he ever thought of Radagast's purpose after the War of the Ring. It seems pretty clear that he didn't return with Gandalf or, probably, ever.

He did note, however, that there was a chance that the Blue Wizards were critical to the war effort and weakened Sauron’s support behind the front lines, in Harad and Rhun and the Far East. Either that, or they became dark mages enslaved to Sauron’s will, or the creators of mystery-cults and occult religious orders. They’ve always fascinated me. And since Tolkien debated when they actually entered Middle-earth, they could conceivably show up in this series.

 

[InCali]

He did note, however, that there was a chance that the Blue Wizards were critical to the war effort and weakened Sauron’s support behind the front lines, in Harad and Rhun and the Far East. Either that, or they became dark mages enslaved to Sauron’s will, or the creators of mystery-cults and occult religious orders. They’ve always fascinated me. And since Tolkien debated when they actually entered Middle-earth, they could conceivably show up in this series.

Yeah. They may have shown up before the others. Tolkien did say that only Olorin fulfilled his purpose so I would speculate that they probably were not critical to defeating Sauron. I guess we'll never know what his thoughts were on this, but it's fun to speculate.

 

[Deck Rickard]

He did note, however, that there was a chance that the Blue Wizards were critical to the war effort and weakened Sauron’s support behind the front lines, in Harad and Rhun and the Far East. Either that, or they became dark mages enslaved to Sauron’s will, or the creators of mystery-cults and occult religious orders. They’ve always fascinated me. And since Tolkien debated when they actually entered Middle-earth, they could conceivably show up in this series.

I've always been interested in these characters and the concept of the Istari as a whole. It's been a long time since I read LOTR and the Silmarillion so maybe this is explained there but did he ever get into why were there only five of them, and why there weren't more colors that corresponded to them? It's a tad weird that the only colors were white (twice), blue (twice), gray and brown.

I also wonder Sarumen was a point on inconsistency in Tolkien's work. When Galdalf meets him in Fellowship, he talks about how it's the time for men to seize the power of the world, and the elves' time has passed. But the Istari aren't actually men, as is revealed in the appendixes. I guess that may be why the movies ditched that motivation for Saruman altogether and had him, in contrast, just try to wipe men out.

 

[InCali]

I've always been interested in these characters and the concept of the Istari as a whole. It's been a long time since I read LOTR and the Silmarillion so maybe this is explained there but did he ever get into why were there only five of them, and why there weren't more colors that corresponded to them? It's a tad weird that the only colors were white (twice), blue (twice), gray and brown.

I also wonder Sarumen was a point on inconsistency in Tolkien's work. When Galdalf meets him in Fellowship, he talks about how it's the time for men to seize the power of the world, and the elves' time has passed. But the Istari aren't actually men, as is revealed in the appendixes. I guess that may be why the movies ditched that motivation for Saruman altogether and had him, in contrast, just try to wipe men out.

His speech to Gandalf was (paraphrased) more along the lines of "the time of the Elves is at an end. The time of men is here. If we had the power of the ring, "we" could control them; disliking some of the evils done along the way, but working for the greater good." Gandalf realized that only one person could wield the ring and that Saruman was trying to do exactly what Sauron was attempting. In other words, Saruman was trying to work secretly against Sauron for his own elevation to the Dark Throne and the domination of middle earth. Saruman and Sauron didn't want to wipe people out. They wanted to rule them.

As to the beginnings of why the Istari were sent, it was to combat the designs of Sauron. Why 5 and why 4 colors only, I don't know. They were, however, agents of 5 of the Aratar: the greatest of the Valar. Saruman (Aule), Gandalf (Manwe and Varda), Radagast (Yavanna) and Pallando and Alatar (Orome). In the eyes of most, Gandalf was thought to be the least of the Istari, but not by Varda (edit-or, for that matter, Cirdan the Shipwright, who gave him Narya, the Ring of Fire). Why the other Aratar (Mandos, Ulmo, Nienna) did not send emissaries isn't clear, but I would speculate that Ulmo, as the Lord of Waters, would not send one of his Maiar to land (Osse, for example, didn't come on land, but stayed near the shores). Mandos, as the Doomsman of the Valar and the one who issued judgments of fate, did not involve himself in helping or hindering. He knew more about the fate of the world than all of the Valar (with the exception of Manwe). Nienna, the goddess of sorrow, and her followers were, perhaps, not equipped to deal with the sorrows and problems faced by those in Middle Earth.

Conjecture for sure, but that would be my explanation.