An Ivanka Thread

[ouroboros]

OK, the topic of Samantha Bee dissing Ivanka cropped in another thread, and a moderator said, "take it somewhere else." I don't see another Ivanka thread, so I'll state here, for new and old, that Bee's comment was stupid beyond words, even if Ivanka were wholly responsible for the acts of her father.

First question, thus far unanswered: is everyone who works for an employer responsible for everything the employer does?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

She's an awful human being who deserves all the crap she gets.

 

[C. Lee]

First question, thus far unanswered: is everyone who works for an employer responsible for everything the employer does?

Is "everyone" responsible? No. The top man of a company that employs dozens or thousands could be the most reprehensible person on the planet and committed dozens of crimes....you may start prosecution of his immediate underlings who presumably assisted in the illegal activities....but you don't arrest and prosecute the janitor for that.

 

[ohiostate124]

She's an awful human being who deserves all the crap she gets.

Do you think she’s evil too?

 

[Schlosser85]

I don’t think she’s evil or responsible for all the behavior of her father, though she is certainly an enabler and choosing to be an active senior member of his administration so she’s open to the accusation of guilt by association.

Basically I think she’s an self promoting airhead who’s in it for she and her husband using her father’s presidency to expand their own business opportunities.

 

[SV Fan]

OK, the topic of Samantha Bee dissing Ivanka cropped in another thread, and a moderator said, "take it somewhere else." I don't see another Ivanka thread, so I'll state here, for new and old, that Bee's comment was stupid beyond words, even if Ivanka were wholly responsible for the acts of her father.

First question, thus far unanswered: is everyone who works for an employer responsible for everything the employer does?

The main problem with Ivanka is they push her as some claiming influence for her dad(and women issues), so if that's how they want to present her, she deserves any scorn she gets when her dad does something stupid.

If she didn't want as much scorn she should have stayed away from her Dad's political career. I always say if they had a poll who was the favorite Trump child Tiffany would win

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I don’t think she’s evil or responsible for all the behavior of her father, though she is certainly an enabler and choosing to be an active senior member of his administration so she’s open to the accusation of guilt by association.

Basically I think she’s an self promoting airhead who’s in it for she and her husband using her father’s presidency to expand their own business opportunities.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44446879

The daughter of the US president tweeted on Monday: "'Those who say it can not be done, should not interrupt those doing it.' - Chinese Proverb".

But digital sleuths in the US and China said there is no evidence such a pearl of wisdom originated in China.

The alleged misattribution has provoked the proverbial online backlash.

The tweet was posted hours before her father, President Donald Trump, held historic talks with the leader of North Korea, Kim Jong-un.

 

[Mandon Knight]

I think there is something very 'unusual' in the relationship between her & her father.

 

[chamber-music]

Trump is an 'unusual' guy. Some of the stuff he says about Ivanka is very creepy.

Ivanka joined her father's administration of her own free will and hasn't spoken out much in disapproval of his stances. She is open to as much criticism as anyone else in her position. You can't take a political job and say “I try to stay out of politics”.

Ivanka isn't responsible but she is complicit if she is willing to go along with things and not publicly disagree. If your not speaking out then people are going to assume your views are the same as your employers/father.

Clint Eastwood's kids have very different political views to their father. The Eastwoods have all expressed their own views without disrespecting their father.

 

[Matt]

Ivanka’s job is to bolster her father’s political image and support for his agenda. Ergo, she bears responsibility.

 

[Mandon Knight]

Trump is an 'unusual' guy. Some of the stuff he says about Ivanka is very creepy.

Its beyond 'creepy'. Fancying your daughter is beyond the pail. Describing how you think she looks and basically relating it too 'If she wasn't my daughter, well I'd....' is just WTF to the max.

 

[Aximili86]

Jesus, Darth. Think what you want of the woman, but "airhead" she's not.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

Ivanka comes across as being somewhat book smart but lacking any form of common sense and possesses absolutely no sense of self-awareness.

Not all too uncommon for offspring of the wealthy and famous.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Jesus, Darth. Think what you want of the woman, but "airhead" she's not.

Please site us examples of her brilliance.

 

[Aximili86]

Nobody said anything about "brilliant".

She is educated, has run some businesses (though you'll just write that off entirely as "she just got a check from daddy!", no doubt), and has been involved in philanthropic work for years.

If you wouldn't insult another woman's intellect that way, don't do it just because of who her dad is and that she hasn't publically called him Hitler McGoebbels or whatever.

This isn't some swimsuit pageant ditz, like her or not.

 

[Donner]

She's not a ditz, just extremely apathetic to anything that doesn't concern herself. Philanthropy is an obligation of every wealthy person, whether they give a damn or not.

 

[Aximili86]

*Laughs* Philanthrophy isn't an obligation at all. Good people do it, ethically, but people can do what they want with their wealth.

 

[Donner]

Horrible people also give to charity because it makes them look good. One does not have to be a good person to donate their money. It's also a tax write off.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Jesus, Darth. Think what you want of the woman, but "airhead" she's not.

I like how you came at me, when all I did was quote Schlosser and then provide an actual example.

 

[chamber-music]

Jimmy Saville did tons of charity work and he molested kids. Philanthropy in and of its self doesn't speak of a persons character. Plenty of people that do charity work are terrible people.

There is an expectation amongst high society and the wealthy to do some charity work regardless of if they genuinely care or not. Charitable functions have long been a networking and PR tool among some wealthy people. Most of those celebrities don't attend the met gala because they care about fundraising

 

[ouroboros]

The main problem with Ivanka is they push her as some claiming influence for her dad(and women issues), so if that's how they want to present her, she deserves any scorn she gets when her dad does something stupid.

If she didn't want as much scorn she should have stayed away from her Dad's political career. I always say if they had a poll who was the favorite Trump child Tiffany would win

I would amend your first paragraph to say that if she says or does something that is designed to boost her father's position(s), such as "women issues," it's fair game to go after her statements to show her as foolish, ill-informed, etc.

It's not fair game to go after her posting something about her kid and promote a false equivalency between her enjoyment of her offspring and the detainment policies of the government, for which she is not responsible . That's why I framed my original question in terms of who was responsible for his or her boss's actions. I don't think every employee who works for a corrupt boss is either responsible, or even "an enabler," as one poster here said.

Further, the line of blame is by no means clear. Is Trump himself even directly responsible for the decision of the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, which amended the 1997 Flores Settlement? One source argued that this process began during the Obama administration. So maybe Obama is really responsible, since it began on his watch>

(The preceding sentence is a reducio ad absurdum, if anyone's interested.)

If anyone has compelling evidence as to Trump's masterminding the whole detainment scandal, I'd be happy to read it. But I don't think anyone can demonstrate Ivanka's direct involvement-- certainly not the feckless Samantha Bee.

 

[Sithborg]

Simple. What happened under Obama was when ICE and CBP were upset that they were being held back.

What is happening now is them with free reign.

They need to be reworked. Heavily.

 

[ouroboros]

The Obama administration was certainly better than Trump's about not getting caught. From the Washington Post:

For the first years of the Obama administration, the United States maintained fewer than 100 beds for family detention. But by the end of 2014, the administration had plans for more than 3,000 beds, and immigration advocates said the ramp-up had broken with America’s tradition of welcoming those seeking a haven from violence. At the Dilley facility, detainees described in interviews an understaffed medical clinic and rampant sickness among children, among other problems.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Nobody said anything about "brilliant".

She is educated, has run some businesses (though you'll just write that off entirely as "she just got a check from daddy!", no doubt), and has been involved in philanthropic work for years.

If you wouldn't insult another woman's intellect that way, don't do it just because of who her dad is and that she hasn't publically called him Hitler McGoebbels or whatever.

This isn't some swimsuit pageant ditz, like her or not.

She's an empty suit with an empty head that obviously like her father thinks the rest of us in the public are credulous marks.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/26/opinions/ivanka-trump-filipovic/index.html

https://m.ranker.com/list/ridiculous-ivanka-trump-quotes/veronica-walsingham

https://splinternews.com/ivanka-trump-integrity-means-doing-the-thing-you-said-1821500751

http://www.newsweek.com/ivanka-trump-terrible-no-good-very-bad-month-white-house-671297

Even Bannon hasn't walked back the quote of him calling her dumb as a brick as far as I know.

But again what's worse is her thinking we are as foolish and out of touch as she is. My favorite example was when she put out that picture of her with "fan mail" from children that was so fake it should have had a water mark from the Onion attached.

Empty suit.

Empty head.

And yes... She became a legitimate target for criticism when she accepted a role within the administration as an advisor to the president.

 

[Aximili86]

So you're running with Bannon on the issue.

Good to know, that guy somehow has credibility among the anti-Trump types now.

Bannon.