The Amazing Spider-Man 2 Andrew Garfield IS Spider-Man!

[Loki882]

Andrew nails ALL facets of SM/Peter. Tobey was good, but there were parts that he didn't do very well (some of it was the writing though and not necessarily him).

 

[TheLastBlade]

In my book, if it is executed well it is no longer a cliche present in the film.

This.

If you want to do a cliche well, then you gonna need to try at it. Take JRPGs for examples. They're usually about saving the world or bond with VERY generic characters. However, if they put effort with the characters and everything in that world, then it would give them a reason to save their world.

 

[TH29]

in Tobeys defense (and I prefer Andrew in the role in every way) the writing in those Raimi Spider-Man flicks, specifically the dialogue is pretty horrendous and wooden. Its almost as if its a school play. hard to make some of those lines not suck.

 

[Loki882]

I agree TH29, I said that a lot of my issues with Tobey's Peter were probably more the scripts fault than his.

 

[TH29]

the writing was so unnatural, that it made him and everyone look WAY worse than they should have.

 

[Repulsor Blast]

What makes you think that?

numerous reasons, none conclusive of course.

- plot synopsis' first like is about impending graduation
- the graduation scene i am confident occurs after the rhino truck scene, which we know takes place very early in the movie. i'd go so far as to wager is it the 2nd or third scene of the whole film, with graduation thereafter.
- zero set photos etc from the high school
- high school was all throughout the first one, i doubt they feel the need to go back there
- the high school they used to film at is in LA, and this movie was shot entirely on the other side of the U.S.A.

but yeah, mainly the first two points, especially the 2nd one.

 

[Lei D Loki]

I mentioned this a while ago, but TASM almost felt like an experiment. They were playing around with a few things, finding things that worked, and things that didn't work. Now they got on their two feet and have a better understanding of what direction to go in.

Exactly. I saw a tweet from Mark Webb about his to do list for the day. #3 was not make an origin movie. lol. This means he must be pretty psyched that he has more freedom to explore and not be limited by the parameters of an origin story. IMO, I think he did a great job and I prefer his origin story to Raimi's even though I loved SM1 when it came out.

Regarding Tobey, the weakness in the Raimi trilogy is definitely the script and maybe even direction. The actors were not the problem. Dunst got the worst part. Having to act like some shallow chick hopping from one rich kid to another and playing damsel in distress in all 3 films.

 

[TheWallCrawler]

I wonder if when they hired Webb he asked if he could do it without redoing the origin

 

[JOE]

He kept saying how it's "liberating" to be free of the origin and actually concentrate on Peter Parker being Spider-Man instead of Peter Parker becoming Spider-Man.

 

[Spiderdevil]

Regarding Tobey, the weakness in the Raimi trilogy is definitely the script and maybe even direction. The actors were not the problem. Dunst got the worst part. Having to act like some shallow chick hopping from one rich kid to another and playing damsel in distress in all 3 films.

The script and writing in SM1 and SM2 are great,atleast way better than TASM

 

[WarriorDreamer]

I don't think TASM should have been an 'experiment'. I think they should have plotted the movie series film by film and regarding experiments they should have done storyboard concepts regarding that.

TASM felt a lot like a rehash. And even then there were many elements which were poor. Lizard could have been done better, etc. I don't think everyone should blame TASM failings on that it was an origin story.

 

[Valkyrje]

Bar the villain, everything was better IMO. The character development, action, costume, movie tone, the actors performance.

 

[Loki882]

TASM was not a rehash beyond Peter getting powers. Most of the actually events are completely different, I've never understood the rehash complaint because I don't see it. I actually prefer The Lizard to GG. The Lizard actually HAD A PLAN. Not only that, but it was a comics accurate Lizard plan. What was GG's ultimate goal exactly? The movie never gives him a valid motivation. GG was probably more entertaining, but he was not a better written antagonist. Doc Ock was fantastic.

 

[TheWallCrawler]

I would've liked to see like a Batman: year one direction with TASM. I mean, year one starts with Bruce being done with his journey and having aquired the essential skills, but still he's in the very start of his carreer as Batman and he still has a lot to learn. So, TASM would start with Peter already having powers and Uncle Ben already being dead, and Peter has just began his carreer as Spider-Man still using the prototype costume

My vision would be that it starts with a video diary montage of Peter developing the web shooters. Soon it would cut to Peter in the prototype costume being on a rooftop looking down, talking to a pocket recording device how the only test left is the field test. He runs & jumps off the building, shoots a web to the helicopter, swings gracefully down and webs up the running criminal. Then the next scene sets the status quo of Peter's high school life, he does still get bullied and he doesn't know exactly what to do because he can't use his powers

the theme largely is police vs. Spider-man and Captain Stacy is a bigger part of the film. Peter finds the bag, Aunt May tells about Connors, Peter goes to meet Connors at the ESU where he meets Gwen who is working for Connors. Connors offers Peter an assistant job, and from then on Peter & Gwen are working together as assistants for Connors. Connors hasn't told anyone, but the representative of Oscorp named Ratha is harrassing Connors about the cure, at one point when Connors says they don't have time for human testing, Ratha has his "muscle-guys" beat Connors up, Ratha then gives Connors one day, the last chance. After that Connors takes the serum himself and it's basically the rest of TASM from there on with little tweaks

don't wanna rewrite the movie, not even saying this would necessarily have ended up being better, but this is just where I would've gone with it

 

[Lei D Loki]

The script and writing in SM1 and SM2 are great,atleast way better than TASM

I respectfully disagree.

TASM was not a rehash beyond Peter getting powers. Most of the actually events are completely different, I've never understood the rehash complaint because I don't see it. I actually prefer The Lizard to GG. The Lizard actually HAD A PLAN. Not only that, but it was a comics accurate Lizard plan. What was GG's ultimate goal exactly? The movie never gives him a valid motivation. GG was probably more entertaining, but he was not a better written antagonist. Doc Ock was fantastic.

Agreed.

Bar the villain, everything was better IMO. The character development, action, costume, movie tone, the actors performance.

Exactly.

 

[TheLastBlade]

The script and writing in SM1 and SM2 are great,atleast way better than TASM

"Punch me, I bleed" says otherwise.

 

[Loki882]

GG utter lack of motive and KD's MJ also say otherwise.

 

[TH29]

"Golly gee i shined my shoes and pressed my pants!" or whatever the hell he said...no one can win with dialogue like that.

 

[Spiderdevil]

If we are gonna pick up bad dialogue,you can even put the Nolan Trilogy and TA to shame

Fact is SM1 and SM2 were well written and directed films with impressive CGI and set pieces which hold up to this day

The only fault in SM1 was that Goblin lacked a clear motive in the 2nd half of the film.

While if I start writing up faults from TASM,I will end up writing an essay
I am not a Raimi Lover or a Webb hater or anything like that.I like films with an unbiased mindset and also have high hopes for this franchise,but the fact remains that Webb is a long way off the mark compared to Raimi's first two movies as far as TASM was concerned

 

[Lei D Loki]

FACT is we all have our own opinions and I respect that. Your OPINION is that the writing in the Raimi films were much much better than TASM. Plenty of us in this thread disagree and we've stated many times what we disliked.

Look, I enjoyed all of Raimi's films when it came out. But having watched it again recently, I really really have to disagree about the writing. What do you call MJ's characterization? Do you think that's a product of good writing?

I also disagree that the CGI and set pieces hold up to this day. I just had a Raimi marathon last weekend and boy do those films look dated. It's understandable since technology has progressed so much over the years. This is not a criticism just an observation and I never had an issue with the CGI or set pieces. I still enjoyed the films but I did skip a lot of scenes.

 

[Spiderdevil]

As Chaseter said,its just a trend to like the new and hate the old
And what 'plenty of us' are you talking about? Look at the amount SM1 and SM2 earned,in an era with much less markets and no 3D

MJ's characterization was good enough in SM1 and SM2,it just got bad in SM3

CGI was pretty good in both SM1 and SM2,especially SM2.It may look dated to you now but its almost more than 10 years for both the films
While the CGI looked dated for TASM the day it released,too video gamish and fantastical.And don't get we started on the Lizard

The Lizard was a terrible Villain and uncharismatic,the action sequences were either terrible,too short or badly edited.The soundtrack was horrible.The pacing was bad.Spider-man/Peter Parker acted like a *****e on many occasions and I didn't buy the whole awkward teenager act he put up.Also Webb basically copied the whole 1st hour of the 2002 version

The only two places where Webb wins is a better female lead and a Spider-man who is more accurate

And please,picking on a poor trapped car thief is not 'witty' or anything.I hope Webb uses better wits this time around

 

[Lei D Loki]

That's a lot of unbiased opinion right there. Heh.

Who the hell is chaseter? Sure there is that trend, but I do not follow that trend. I dislike that trend actually. I am speaking for myself and what I have observed. What does box office have to do with this? TASM did very well in the box office by any objective measure. It was also well received critically. These are facts. Comparison to the other films' box office is irrelevant in this discussion.

We were originally discussing your claim that SM1 and SM2 has writing that was "way better" than TASM. These were your words. Then you made claims bordering on hyperbolic, IMO, about how great the writing was in old films. I and others disagreed and we pointed out the reasons why we disagreed. I personally enjoyed all Raimi films, even SM3. I am just not blind to its faults especially if you compare them to today's comic book films.

TASM has flaws, but the action sequence is not one of them. The action and Spidey movements were the best in all Spidey films, imo. I also disagree with the pacing. the movie had my attention from start to finish. And about Parker being a *****e, I didn't think he was. I thought he acted the way I expect a 17 year old going through these changes.

Villain-wise. I never had any problems with any of Spidey's villains from SM1 to TASM. I am happy as long as Spidey has a villain to fight.

Perhaps you should not have watched the movie since it's pretty obvious you went in with plenty of expectations and bias. I waited a full year before I watched TASM because I had a lot of bias against it. I needed time to let it go and be more open.

 

[Spiderdevil]

Both the Box office and the critical response of SM1 is better than TASM,its relevant to the discussion here because we are talking about public opinion here

Spider-man moments and poses were great,Agreed.He was sleek and lanky like always wanted Spidey to be.I loved the TASM costume and I loved TASM2's aswell.The romance with Gwen was great.Gwen Stacy herself was a better character than MJ in the Raimi movies.Andrew Garfield was a better Peter Parker/Spider-man than Tobey's despite his occasional *****esness.
But that's were its merits over SM1 end

SM1 had a better pacing,better humour,better action,better villain,better supporting caste,better script and direction.Practically better in almost everthing

This is not biasness,on my first viewing I thought TASM was better than SM1,but on subsequent viewing I realize that's not the case.Not because TASM is bad,its a great movie.But SM1 imo is a masterpiece and a really underrated movie that I enjoy watching to this day despite watching it a hundred times already

In terms of origin movies its just behind IM1

 

[Loki882]

SM 1 had better humor, no Tobey didn't pull off the comedy well at all. The dialogue was cheesy (a middle aged man's view of the 1960's), GG had no motivation, the supporting characters were more like caricatures. Flash in TASM got an arc, Flash in SM 1 was a *****e. The action in TASM was also better and Peter was more creative with his powers and moved like an actual spider. Besides JJJ, TASM supporting cast was better. Martin Sheen, Sally Field, Denis Leary, Chris Zylka, etc all were great and got stuff to do. Peter acted like and actual teenager and the story was intriguing. SM 2 is still the best, but TASM is a close second.

 

[Vid Electricz]

SM 1 had better humor, no Tobey didn't pull off the comedy well at all. The dialogue was cheesy (a middle aged man's view of the 1960's), GG had no motivation, the supporting characters were more like caricatures. Flash in TASM got an arc, Flash in SM 1 was a *****e. The action in TASM was also better and Peter was more creative with his powers and moved like an actual spider. Besides JJJ, TASM supporting cast was better. Martin Sheen, Sally Field, Denis Leary, Chris Zylka, etc all were great and got stuff to do. Peter acted like and actual teenager and the story was intriguing. SM 2 is still the best, but TASM is a close second.

lol. One person says something about the 1960's nerd cliche (years ago) and it's parroted and regurgitated by fanboys who can't think for themselves for years and years to come (despite it's inaccuracy).

Similarly, TASM was a middle aged man's view of how teenagers act in 2012 (horribly cliched and trying way too hard to feel "real", ultimately coming of as unnatural and insincere).

Flash in TASM got an arc? So? Who asked for that? Is this a character that deserves a character arc? Was that even a true character arc? I'd argue that the answer to all of these is "no".