Anyone dissapointed with dc's Captain Marvel

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When infinite crisis was getting set into motion, Captain Marvel was all over the place and playing an integral part. Leaving the jsa, death of shazam, fight with the specter,rock of eternity. Then we got him in and out of 52. Marvel gets his upgrade and gets the white suit and all. Sure we got the mini series and the little outsiders thing, but im disappointed that marvels future right now is a bunch of kiddie books that have no effect on whats happening right now. Billy has been given all this power and now must be the new "shazam", we really didnt get too much story of how this effects him or anything. Its like heres your new suit and have a nice day. Black Adam has gotten all the attention and Captain Marvel has been pushed aside for the the side kicks and bad guys.

Or maybe im unaware of some future stuff Marvel s getting that will actually matter.
 
They put him through change for changes sake - it's a stupid thing DC does when it feel cornered. They also gave it to a writer who is the exact opposite of what a Captain Marvel book should be.

CM3 is meant to show up in Robinson's Justice League though - so we'll be getting more answers.

BTW Billy Batson and the power of Shazam is awesome.
 
Eh, it's okay. Very Monster Society esque, which was hit or miss really.
 
CBR's Permanent Damage had a pretty interesting mini-review of it nestled into a great larger piece on the problem with "kids' comics" today.

It's nice that the new Captain Marvel will be showing up in Robinson's JL book, but I'd really like to see what Billy's doing with his bad self these days.
 
Billy will be showing up in JSA when the Black Adam arc arrives.

I loved Monster Society. Magic of Shazam isn't nearly as charming as that -- yet -- but it's adequate.

But, yes, I agree that the Marvels have been beyond horribly mishandled in mainstream continuity. Just another one of the horribly mishandled things that DC has horribly mishandled recently.
 
The Big Red Cheese will be in the DC versus Mortal Kombat game.
 
You know, here's what I can't figure out. All-New Atom was good. The Bat-books are good. Blue Beetle hasn't really dropped off yet. Joker's Asylum has been surprisingly good, aside from a few artistic decisions. Jonah Hex is nigh-perfect. Manhunter is always excellent. Nightwing is great. The Green Lantern books are great. Rann/Thanagar Holy War has been fun. Final Crisis has been a blast (cue Darthphere with a snarky motherboxxxxxx reference). Trinity is way better than Countdown was. The Superman books are awesome and getting more awesome. Booster Gold hasn't been perfect, but it's been damn good. GA/BC is way better than anything Winick's done in awhile. BATO is solid. Robin is solid. JSA and JLA look to be getting back on track. Wonder Woman's good. Birds of Prey is still good. Checkmate, while nowhere near as good as it was under Rucka, is really not that bad. Peyer's Flash is kicking ass. Off in its own corner of the universe Tangent Superman's Reign is a really fun comic. Brave and the Bold is improving, and promises to continue to do so. Superman/Batman's as good as it's been since Loeb's first arc. If anyone even cares anymore, Spirit's still good. Even Supergirl and Batman Confidential are good solid books at the moment, and Supergirl looks promising for the foreseeable future.

So what the hell is the big problem with DC? Is it just fan inertia left over from when Countdown was mucking things up?
 
You're listing a whole bunch of examples that have only started up within the last three months, if even that long. DC's downward spiral had been going on for more than two years. Do you really think that the damage done has already been repaired, or even close to? Trinity has been endearingly decent for six issues; Countdown had sucked ineffable assjuice for fifty-two.

And Checkmate is horrible right now. Horrible. And All-New Atom became horrible after Simone left, not to mention canceled. And more than half of those books you mentioned are going through disruptive creative team changes as we speak.
 
Billy will be showing up in JSA when the Black Adam arc arrives.

I loved Monster Society. Magic of Shazam isn't nearly as charming as that -- yet -- but it's adequate.

I may look forward to JSA more once Black Adam's story arc comes into play. Johns pretty much put Black Adam and Captain Marvel back on the DC map with the JSA.

I'm curious when all of the Kingdom Come Tie ins will be done. JSA is a really good book, but I'm not a fan of how the last story arc and the current one focuses on Kingdom Come as well. The first arc of the JSA reboot was really good. I'm also curious if all of the miracles GOG had performed will be permanent.
I don't think Damage's face will stay normal as well as Starman's mental state after Gog cured them. It also ruins the uniqueness of the JSA members and Johns had temporarily had Blue Beetle Ted Kord appear in Booster Gold, so I wouldn't be surprised if Johns does that with Gog and the JSA.

I would have like Captain Marvel and Billy to be one and the same person. The Monster Society made it seem like they are completely different people.

Which captain Marvel will be in the Mortal Kombat vs. DC Anubis? My fingers are crossed for Billy as Captain Marvel or if need be, "Marvel".
 
You're listing a whole bunch of examples that have only started up within the last three months, if even that long. DC's downward spiral had been going on for more than two years.
All that has to happen for that spiral to be over is for books to not suck. Currently, they don't. At least, not at nearly the same rate. They're much closer to where they were when Infinite Crisis started (except back then, I can't think of a single book they were publishing that wasn't at least solidly good.)

Do you really think that the damage done has already been repaired, or even close to? Trinity has been endearingly decent for six issues; Countdown had sucked ineffable assjuice for fifty-two.
Countdown's over. Trinity's what's coming out now. I mean, I'm never going to forgive them for what they put us through for those two years (well, for me, it's really only the Year of Countdown that extremely pissed me off), but now they're putting out good books.

And Checkmate is horrible right now. Horrible.
First of all, it's nowhere near as bad as a Bruce Jones book should be. Second of all, the worst thing about it is that it just doesn't focus on the same characters as Rucka's run, or on the same general theme. It doesn't belong in the Checkmate book. But the story is not really that bad.

And All-New Atom became horrible after Simone left, not to mention canceled.
Oh well. Different strokes.

And more than half of those books you mentioned are going through disruptive creative team changes as we speak.
Blue Beetle, GA/BC, Booster Gold, BATO, Robin, Brave and the Bold, Spirit, and BatCon. Blue Beetle's still just as much fun as it was at the beginning. GA/BC is losing Winick, true, but in my opinion that'll probably make it better. Booster Gold appears to have a strong guiding force from Johns, even if he won't be involved with writing it, based on that preview page. And the preview page looked enticing. Robin will probably suck again after Dixon leaves, I acknowledge. I'm reserving judgment about BATO. Brave and the Bold should be pretty cool under JMS. And Batman Confidential's always having a creative team change.
 
All that has to happen for that spiral to be over is for books to not suck. Currently, they don't. At least, not at nearly the same rate. They're much closer to where they were when Infinite Crisis started (except back then, I can't think of a single book they were publishing that wasn't at least solidly good.)

Countdown's over. Trinity's what's coming out now. I mean, I'm never going to forgive them for what they put us through for those two years (well, for me, it's really only the Year of Countdown that extremely pissed me off), but now they're putting out good books.
How are the Amazons and Olympians doing at the moment? Captain Atom? Batgirl? Each and every one of the Titans, Teen and otherwise? And, as per the topic of this thread, the Marvels? More that I'm not remembering? Until DC fixes what they broke, they have not done nearly enough. The stories of the past two years weren't bad simply because they were bad. They were also bad because they wreaked holy hell on an unforgivable amount of characters and mythoi. Those things have to be the things addressed, not just for a steady stream of solo books to be good on their own merits.

I will say that DC seems to have, at the least, addressed the nigh-legendary lateness that invaded their books last year.

First of all, it's nowhere near as bad as a Bruce Jones book should be. Second of all, the worst thing about it is that it just doesn't focus on the same characters as Rucka's run, or on the same general theme. It doesn't belong in the Checkmate book. But the story is not really that bad.
The story is bad because it twists what Checkmate stood for and turns it into yet another generic shadowy government agency that does shady and questionable things, even to their own members, which is the exact sort of thing that Checkmate was very specifically created to not be.

Oh well. Different strokes.
Same exact issue here. Within the first two issues of Remender's run, he took everything that was likable and unique about Simone's universe and turned it into an unrecognizable mess. He casually killed off a major supporting character, brought him back with as little fanfare, and then killed him off again! And the retcons, one after another; now Ryan was never Ray's protege, he was just some random rube that some random villains picked out to, I dunno, make a mess of things. Remender did pretty much every single thing that a new writer shouldn't do when coming onto an existing book. Not that it ultimately mattered since DC was obviously set on canceling the book anyway, before he even came aboard.

Blue Beetle, GA/BC, Booster Gold, BATO, Robin, Brave and the Bold, Spirit, and BatCon.
Also Supergirl. My goodness, the majority of DC's books barely have the same writers for more than a year anymore. It's like the exact opposite of creating a stable and cohesive company 'verse.
Blue Beetle's still just as much fun as it was at the beginning.
The last two issues have been decent, but Pfeifer isn't the longterm writer. Sturges is, and he hasn't even started yet; we have no idea what he's going to do.
Booster Gold appears to have a strong guiding force from Johns, even if he won't be involved with writing it, based on that preview page.
Chuck Dixon takes over for two issues, and then...TBD. We have no idea who the new writer would be and what's going to happen with this series, ie A disruptive creative team change.
 
Which means Anubis is probably gonna drop it.
 
I would have like Captain Marvel and Billy to be one and the same person. The Monster Society made it seem like they are completely different people.

Which captain Marvel will be in the Mortal Kombat vs. DC Anubis? My fingers are crossed for Billy as Captain Marvel or if need be, "Marvel".[/QUOTE]

Billy and Cap are one and the same in mainstream D.C. continuity. Smith took liberties with it much like Miller did in "The Dark Knight Strikes Again". The dichotomy between Billy and Cap was somewhat ambiguous in the Golden Age, but I prefer them as one and the same. Ross' portrayal of him in Kingdom Come really cemented that as the classic definition of the character IMO.
Can't wait to finally have Cap in a video game!:grin:
 
Billy and Cap are one and the same in mainstream D.C. continuity. Smith took liberties with it much like Miller did in "The Dark Knight Strikes Again". The dichotomy between Billy and Cap was somewhat ambiguous in the Golden Age, but I prefer them as one and the same. Ross' portrayal of him in Kingdom Come really cemented that as the classic definition of the character IMO.
Can't wait to finally have Cap in a video game!:grin:

Good, because I thought they were trying to recon it as if they were separate people. Kingdom Come was my real first exposure to Captain Marvel, and like you said, was the most definitive take of Captain Marvel. I also think SHAZAM! Power of Hope is another definitive take of Billy and Captain Marvel.

Is the reason Billy didn't survive in KC is because he said Shazam! multiple times on the bomb and the bomb exploded in his human form? I took it as if that happened. I think Captain Marvel would be able to survive a dead on explosion from the bomb. And how awesome was it when KC Superman gave Billy the choice on what to do, because Billy is part human and part hero.

I don't know what to expect with Mortal Kombat vs. DC. Either way, I'm excited to play a game with DC characters. I hope they come out with a sequel to Justice League Heroes on the newer game consoles. It was cool playing as Earth 2 Superman and Hal Jordan.
 
I think the idea of them being seperate is at the start you could see a seperation in Billy and Marvel but as they were bound and over time they grew into the same person.

In Smiths story you can see Marvel saying "gosh" and becoming more and more Billy.
 
Captain Marvel has access to knowledge that teenage Billy Bateson does not have out of "costume". They are "different people" but they should be like 2 minds in one body. Shazam chose billy because he wanted billy to be captain marvel. Captain Marvel is just an extension of Billy thats a tad bit more grown up. Billy should never talk to Captain Marvel. Its like Superman talking to Clark Kent.


Also Aristotle i gotta say a lot of the books you mentioned kinda suck. They were good for a few issues or had a nice arc but overall have been dissapointing.
 
I would have like Captain Marvel and Billy to be one and the same person. The Monster Society made it seem like they are completely different people.

Which captain Marvel will be in the Mortal Kombat vs. DC Anubis? My fingers are crossed for Billy as Captain Marvel or if need be, "Marvel".

Billy and Cap are one and the same in mainstream D.C. continuity. Smith took liberties with it much like Miller did in "The Dark Knight Strikes Again". The dichotomy between Billy and Cap was somewhat ambiguous in the Golden Age, but I prefer them as one and the same. Ross' portrayal of him in Kingdom Come really cemented that as the classic definition of the character IMO.
Can't wait to finally have Cap in a video game!:grin:


Captain marvel. Technically theres only ever been one in the DCU
 
Good, because I thought they were trying to recon it as if they were separate people. Kingdom Come was my real first exposure to Captain Marvel, and like you said, was the most definitive take of Captain Marvel. I also think SHAZAM! Power of Hope is another definitive take of Billy and Captain Marvel.

Is the reason Billy didn't survive in KC is because he said Shazam! multiple times on the bomb and the bomb exploded in his human form? I took it as if that happened. I think Captain Marvel would be able to survive a dead on explosion from the bomb. And how awesome was it when KC Superman gave Billy the choice on what to do, because Billy is part human and part hero.

I don't know what to expect with Mortal Kombat vs. DC. Either way, I'm excited to play a game with DC characters. I hope they come out with a sequel to Justice League Heroes on the newer game consoles. It was cool playing as Earth 2 Superman and Hal Jordan.

Yeah, the reason Cap died in Kingdom Come was because he was Billy when the bomb exploded. The novelization of the story goes more into detail on how Billy was actually killed before he could change back to Captain Marvel again.
And I agree with your assessment of Power of Hope, it's four stars all the way!
 

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