Anyone else sick of "emotionally manipulative" fanboy defenses?(long rant)

[Rocketman]

All I know is, I absolutely, genuinely loved Man of Steel, and I think it's one of the best superhero movies ever. The very opening scenes gave me that childhood wonder, and I had chills. I had an anxiousness. I actually teared up in the opening shots as Lara gave birth to her baby. That Zimmer music, those out-of-focus zooms in and out of her face, and all the while I have my hand over my mouth thinking, "She's giving birth to Superman." The first thought that popped into my mind throughout the entire movie was, "This is our new Star Wars." Then I go home and go on the Internet and I'm literally shocked to my core. I'm stunned.

Regardless, the whole film was an experience I'll never forget. I'll hold it dear to my heart, because that midnight premiere meant a hell of a lot to me. Sincerely. I understand that people hated it, sure. But it doesn't influence me. I have my feelings, and I'll keep that with me, and I'll hold onto it. It sucks that many people don't have that. I honestly don't care about Rotten Tomatoes. I feel that they got it wrong, but they think I'm wrong too. That's okay.

And I'm sticking to both Matrix sequels for as long as I live, and I'm sticking to The Dark Knight Rises, and Speed Racer, and M. Night Shyamalan's first four movies, and nothing is going to convince me otherwise. If I have bad taste, if I need to "see more movies," then I have bad taste and I need to see more movies. That sounds fine to me.

Needless to say, the Internet isn't usually a place for me, haha.

 

[BestGirl]

All I know is, I absolutely, genuinely loved Man of Steel, and I think it's one of the best superhero movies ever. The very opening scenes gave me that childhood wonder, and I had chills. I had an anxiousness. I actually teared up in the opening shots as Lara gave birth to her baby. That Zimmer music, those out-of-focus zooms in and out of her face, and all the while I have my hand over my mouth thinking, "She's giving birth to Superman." The first thought that popped into my mind throughout the entire movie was, "This is our new Star Wars." Then I go home and go on the Internet and I'm literally shocked to my core. I'm stunned.

Regardless, the whole film was an experience I'll never forget. I'll hold it dear to my heart, because that midnight premiere meant a hell of a lot to me. Sincerely. I understand that people hated it, sure. But it doesn't influence me. I have my feelings, and I'll keep that with me, and I'll hold onto it. It sucks that many people don't have that. I honestly don't care about Rotten Tomatoes. I feel that they got it wrong, but they think I'm wrong too. That's okay.

And I'm sticking to both Matrix sequels for as long as I live, and I'm sticking to The Dark Knight Rises, and Speed Racer, and M. Night Shyamalan's first four movies, and nothing is going to convince me otherwise. If I have bad taste, if I need to "see more movies," then I have bad taste and I need to see more movies. That sounds fine to me.

Needless to say, the Internet isn't usually a place for me, haha.

I wish everyone thought this way. I don't understand why it's so important for some people that everyone love what they love and hate what they hate.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I loved Man of Steel as well and I'm okay with not everyone agreeing with me. Obviously a lot of people didn't love it for their own reasons and that is A-okay with me. Doesn't change my feelings for it. Opinions are like...well you know. I think that for most their isn't some hidden motivation for them not liking a film, they just don't like it.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

My main issue, and I've seen it a lot, is when people who gave a film a certain review that gets a different rating than certain fanboys think it should get, get accused of being paid off by the studios or simply being a troll. I don't mind it when somebody's opinion (even my own) is questioned, but questioning someone's integrity with zero evidence to back it up is something else entirely. That bothers me.

 

[Steamteck]

I loved Man of Steel as well and I'm okay with not everyone agreeing with me. Obviously a lot of people didn't love it for their own reasons and that is A-okay with me. Doesn't change my feelings for it. Opinions are like...well you know. I think that for most their isn't some hidden motivation for them not liking a film, they just don't like it.

Absolutely. I loved Man of Steel ( saw it the third time tonight)but I'm used to being the guy that is no one's target audience. My only real concern is do I get a sequel and does it start the DC universe ball moving. Peoples reasons for not liking a film often don't compute with me or I feel like I saw the good parts version etc but everyone's different. There's no agenda just preferences.

As a guy who disliked the Dark Knight I understand getting a lot of crap for your dislikes. to tell the absolute truth though, Its less frustrating to dislike a film that many like than the other way around. at least I've seen it from both sides now and I'll be kinder to the Dark Knight around its fans.

 

[Soapy]

I understand that people hated it, sure. But it doesn't influence me. I have my feelings, and I'll keep that with me, and I'll hold onto it. It sucks that many people don't have that.

I wish everyone thought this way. I don't understand why it's so important for some people that everyone love what they love and hate what they hate.

I don't know about that. Plugging your ears and being unwilling to consider other opinions and not allowing your own opinion to change seems like it would just stifle discussion and debate.

 

[Rocketman]

I don't know about that. Plugging your ears and being unwilling to consider other opinions and not allowing your own opinion to change seems like it would just stifle discussion and debate.

... But that doesn't matter.

If I've seen MOS four times, I'm pretty sure I've thought about it considerably. No one will magically come up with an alternative viewpoint that will make me rub my chin and go, "Hm, I guess it did suck."

Especially critics who saw it once, and weren't paying attention through the whole thing. Just my opinion.

The Matrix Reloaded/Revolutions came out 10 years ago, and here I am, still loyally loving them both dearly, and keeping them close to my heart. I've heard every complaint, good and bad, reasonable and unreasonable. I don't care. They're two of my favorite movies ever. Blind fanboyism? Bad taste? Nah, I'm just me. It's me. It's what I love.

Spoiler

And that's another idea I've had for awhile, that no one will ever agree with: All critics should see a movie twice before reviewing it.

 

[Solidus]

... But that doesn't matter.

If I've seen MOS four times, I'm pretty sure I've thought about it considerably. No one will magically come up with an alternative viewpoint that will make me rub my chin and go, "Hm, I guess it did suck."

Especially critics who saw it once, and weren't paying attention through the whole thing. Just my opinion.

The Matrix Reloaded/Revolutions came out 10 years ago, and here I am, still loyally loving them both dearly, and keeping them close to my heart. I've heard every complaint, good and bad, reasonable and unreasonable. I don't care. They're two of my favorite movies ever. Blind fanboyism? Bad taste? Nah, I'm just me. It's me. It's what I love.

Spoiler

And that's another idea I've had for awhile, that no one will ever agree with: All critics should see a movie twice before reviewing it.

I agree with Soapy. That and yes opinions can change. And not with in a month always. But there are many films I once liked, or hated, and as time went on and good discussion on either forums or with my friends changed my views of them. It's part of growing and learning more about things. Nothing is wrong with learning. It has nothing to do with magic, just more experience, and more viewpoints can give you more of an insight one way or the other.

 

[Rocketman]

I will give you the only two examples of when my opinion honestly changed, in my whole experience here on Earth.

1. I absolutely hated Spider-Man 3. Now I can happily watch it, and I don't find it to be particularly awful. I'd even say it's better/more entertaining than the first one (but 2 is still the best).

2. I did not care for Hellboy when it came out, and, years later, watching it again, I absolutely adore it, as well as the second one.

 

[Ultimatehero]

... But that doesn't matter.

If I've seen MOS four times, I'm pretty sure I've thought about it considerably. No one will magically come up with an alternative viewpoint that will make me rub my chin and go, "Hm, I guess it did suck."

Especially critics who saw it once, and weren't paying attention through the whole thing. Just my opinion.

The Matrix Reloaded/Revolutions came out 10 years ago, and here I am, still loyally loving them both dearly, and keeping them close to my heart. I've heard every complaint, good and bad, reasonable and unreasonable. I don't care. They're two of my favorite movies ever. Blind fanboyism? Bad taste? Nah, I'm just me. It's me. It's what I love.

Spoiler

And that's another idea I've had for awhile, that no one will ever agree with: All critics should see a movie twice before reviewing it.

Exactly. I'll go a step further and say MOS is my favorite movie ever made in that it literally has everything I go to a movie and see. The joy and wonder of seeing Star Wars as a kid, it got the whole adoptee angle right for the first time and completely so it was a film I could really relate to, in that it got what inspiration I look to superheroes for -- being an adoptee/orphan like me yet overcoming it to save the world, an amazing take on an alien invasion, and action I've never seen before. And no one can convince me otherwise. I see about thirty movies from the library every other two weeks, go to the movies two or more times a week, and that's not even counting TV and the internet plus working in the industry and writing my own under review in the industry. I have experience, I have a broad wealth of viewing experience, I know what makes a good film to me. And those who are saying, "well, also listen to the people who hate it" -- isn't this whole thread talking down about "well, also listen to the people who love it?" We are all fully capable of making up our own minds and our own opinions. I like tyson chicken, I'm not going to stop liking Tyson chicken just because someone tells me they hate it. I like a movie, I'm not going to stop liking it because someone tells me they hate it. Opinions that can change are the topical ones -- gun control, etc. What you like is what you like. If you mention movies as a kid, I still love the movies I loved as a kid.

 

[Solidus]

Exactly. I'll go a step further and say MOS is my favorite movie ever made in that it literally had everything I go to a movie and see. And no one can convince me otherwise. I see about thirty movies from the library every other two weeks, go to the movies two or more times a week, and that's not even counting TV and the internet plus working in the industry and writing my own under review in the industry. I have experience, I have a broad wealth of viewing experience, I know what makes a good film to me. And those who are saying, "well, also listen to the people who hate it" -- isn't this whole thread talking down about "well, also listen to the people who love it?" We are all full capable of making up our own minds and our own opinions. I like tyson chicken, I'm not going to stop liking Tyson chicken just because someone tells me they hate it. I like a movie, I'm not going to stop liking it because someone tells me they hate it. Opinions that can change are topical -- gun control, etc.

So opinions on film can't change? There are opinions that can and cannot is what your trying to say?

Wow.

 

[Ultimatehero]

So opinions on film can't change? There are opinions that can and cannot is what your trying to say?

Wow.

For some, possibly, but I find that really hard to believe. Mine never have. I still love Casper: A Spirited Beginning for example for the same reasons I loved it when I was a kid, it's just a fun movie. And being 25 now really doesn't change my outlook on that movie at all. Same with Star Kid, First Kid, Dunston Checks In, Power Rangers, etc. People usually point to, "some of the films I loved as a child, I really can't watch them anymore the same way." I've never had that. I liked them then and I like them now. Why is it all of a sudden and out of the blue not going to be that way? Some of you might experience that shift, I never have.

 

[Solidus]

For some, possibly, but I find that really hard to believe. Mine never have.

Well I feel sorry for ya. Because mine have many times. One way or another. If I hate something then get older and understand it better can be the greatest thing. And vice versa, realizing something was not made very well made.

I've had films like Blade Runner, The Godfather, Apocalypse Now, and many others as a younger person I did not understand/like. As I got older and some discussed it with me, I began to understand what the films were about and now they are some of my favorite films ever. Then there are films like the PT that did the opposite for me and many others. There is nothing wrong with views changing. Now on the internet sometimes it can be overly negative sometimes, and sometimes more because of "ego" or wanting to follow the crowd one way or the other. But there are opinions that can changed from constructive thought and analysis.

 

[Rocketman]

Exactly. I'll go a step further and say MOS is my favorite movie ever made in that it literally has everything I go to a movie and see. The joy and wonder of seeing Star Wars as a kid, it got the whole adoptee angle right for the first time and completely so it was a film I could really relate to, in that it got what inspiration I look to superheroes for -- being an adoptee/orphan like me yet overcoming it to save the world, an amazing take on an alien invasion, and action I've never seen before. And no one can convince me otherwise. I see about thirty movies from the library every other two weeks, go to the movies two or more times a week, and that's not even counting TV and the internet plus working in the industry and writing my own under review in the industry. I have experience, I have a broad wealth of viewing experience, I know what makes a good film to me. And those who are saying, "well, also listen to the people who hate it" -- isn't this whole thread talking down about "well, also listen to the people who love it?" We are all fully capable of making up our own minds and our own opinions. I like tyson chicken, I'm not going to stop liking Tyson chicken just because someone tells me they hate it. I like a movie, I'm not going to stop liking it because someone tells me they hate it. Opinions that can change are the topical ones -- gun control, etc. What you like is what you like. If you mention movies as a kid, I still love the movies I loved as a kid.

If the Collective Internet has taught me anything, it's that they can't grasp that everyone on the planet is different, that they're individuals.

 

[Ultimatehero]

Well I feel sorry for ya. Because mine have many times. One way or another. If I hate something then get older and understand it better can be the greatest thing. And vice versa, realizing something was not made very well made.

I've had films like Blade Runner, The Godfather, Apocalypse Now, and many others as a younger person I did not understand/like. As I got older and some discussed it with me, I began to understand what the films were about and now they are some of my favorite films ever. Then there are films like the PT that did the opposite for me and many others. There is nothing wrong with views changing. Now on the internet sometimes it can be overly negative sometimes, and sometimes more because of "ego" or wanting to follow the crowd one way or the other. But there are opinions that can changed from constructive thought and analysis.

I actually enjoyed those films (never seen the Godfather yet actually, just mobster mafia movies have never really intrigued me - they didn't intrigue me as a kid, they don't intrigue me today) when I was around 13 - library - and loved them back then. I hated 2001: A Space Oddyssey back then and I recently gave it another try and guess what? I still hated it.

I might see new things in the films I liked. South Park The Movie was great as a kid. And it's still great. I just also picked up on the whole interesting 'meta' angle on it. My opinion stays the same, I just learned something new that I didn't see in it before.

I feel sorry for those who think an opinion has to or should change. I also find it quite interesting that this didn't get brought up on the first or second page where it was "we should be allowed to hate, lovers shut up!" and when it shifts it becomes "I loved one of the things some people are hating" it suddenly it gets this response. It's basically saying the same thing as the first page, but because it's pro rather than con it's suddenly controversial... It's just something I find odd with the timing.

 

[Rocketman]

Well I feel sorry for ya. Because mine have many times. One way or another. If I hate something then get older and understand it better can be the greatest thing. And vice versa, realizing something was not made very well made.

I've had films like Blade Runner, The Godfather, Apocalypse Now, and many others as a younger person I did not understand/like. As I got older and some discussed it with me, I began to understand what the films were about and now they are some of my favorite films ever. Then there are films like the PT that did the opposite for me and many others. There is nothing wrong with views changing. Now on the internet sometimes it can be overly negative sometimes, and sometimes more because of "ego" or wanting to follow the crowd one way or the other. But there are opinions that can changed from constructive thought and analysis.

No young person would like these movies anyway, nor should they see them. (Assuming what age we're talking here...No 10 year old will like Apocalypse Now, lol). We're talking opposite ends of the extreme almost, if that's the case. No 35 year old would loyally love Dora the Explorer.

 

[Solidus]

No young person would like these movies anyway, nor should they see them. (Assuming what age we're talking here...No 10 year old will like Apocalypse Now, lol). We're talking opposite ends of the extreme almost, if that's the case. No 35 year old would loyally love Dora the Explorer.

No I'm talking about in my late teens. So ya....opinions can change. And there is no problem with that. Or have you forgotten your little speech about how "everyone" is different?

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I absolutely think opinions can change over time. Not just with individuals, but among moviegoers as a whole as well. For example, On Her Majesty's Secret Service is far more highly thought of now than it was even ten years ago.

 

[Ultimatehero]

No young person would like these movies anyway, nor should they see them. (Assuming what age we're talking here...No 10 year old will like Apocalypse Now, lol). We're talking opposite ends of the extreme almost, if that's the case. No 35 year old would loyally love Dora the Explorer.

I actually did, but I'm not really that normal of a kid lol. Plus, I had the library.

 

[Ultimatehero]

No I'm talking about in my late teens. So ya....opinions can change. And there is no problem with that. Or have you forgotten your little speech about how "everyone" is different?

Well, if you are going to go by that -- everyone is different. Your opinion might jump around, ours stays the same. That doesn't make one of us right and the other wrong. It just makes us different. Yet, on the same hand - you're trying to say we're wrong?

 

[Solidus]

Well, if you are going to go by that -- everyone is different. Your opinion might jump around, ours stays the same. That doesn't make one of us right and the other wrong. It just makes us different. Yet, on the same hand - you're trying to say we're wrong?

No, just that I feel sorry for ya if your opinions never change. Especially for the positive, from not liking a film to changing your mind and liking it.

 

[Ultimatehero]

No, just that I feel sorry for ya if your opinions never change. Especially for the positive, from not liking a film to changing your mind and liking it.

I'm of another strange camp. I'm like RDJ -- if you have something interesting and that entertains me, just one thing, I'm gonna like it lol. So for me, I feel sorry for people who can't take joys in films at all ages. The only films I've ever really didn't like were the really strange spoof ones. Also I wasn't a normal kid lol, I was making movies with action figures and friends, then officially started my writing career (not a career at that point, but still I treated it as such) at 10 years old - I'm anything but a 'normal' kid. So yeah, Blade Runner for example went from "cool, a sci-fi movie with the guy that played Han Solo and Indiana Jones!" to "this is a really well crafted film, no wonder I latched onto it." I might not have understood every single word when I was a kid in every single movie, but I was drawn to the acting and being able to transport me into another world. Escapism. And every film, except for documentaries, is still an escapism form of entertainment. And that's what drew me to them.

 

[bullets]

All I know is, I absolutely, genuinely loved Man of Steel, and I think it's one of the best superhero movies ever. The very opening scenes gave me that childhood wonder, and I had chills. I had an anxiousness. I actually teared up in the opening shots as Lara gave birth to her baby. That Zimmer music, those out-of-focus zooms in and out of her face, and all the while I have my hand over my mouth thinking, "She's giving birth to Superman." The first thought that popped into my mind throughout the entire movie was, "This is our new Star Wars." Then I go home and go on the Internet and I'm literally shocked to my core. I'm stunned.

Regardless, the whole film was an experience I'll never forget. I'll hold it dear to my heart, because that midnight premiere meant a hell of a lot to me. Sincerely. I understand that people hated it, sure. But it doesn't influence me. I have my feelings, and I'll keep that with me, and I'll hold onto it. It sucks that many people don't have that. I honestly don't care about Rotten Tomatoes. I feel that they got it wrong, but they think I'm wrong too. That's okay.

And I'm sticking to both Matrix sequels for as long as I live, and I'm sticking to The Dark Knight Rises, and Speed Racer, and M. Night Shyamalan's first four movies, and nothing is going to convince me otherwise. If I have bad taste, if I need to "see more movies," then I have bad taste and I need to see more movies. That sounds fine to me.

Needless to say, the Internet isn't usually a place for me, haha.

It's kind of funny , but that's exactly how I felt. Some of my favorite critics tore Man of Steel apart. It's just something we have to accept. My girlfriend , friends , and brother could care less about superheroes. I come to this forum and group of people to share my enthusiasm. It's kind of a downer when the joy isn't there , but I'm glad there is some type of discussion.

I like outside perspective , but it's never changed my views. However I think good reviews and word of mouth can affect a film's success drastically and I do take them into account. I'm still going to see a film regardless , but those type of negative reactions can ruin careers and end franchises. There are also instances where it can help. I remember Michael Bay removed two characters from the third transformers because of complaints. So it has it's negative and positive effects. Ultimately money is the top of the totem pole , but I can see why fans are getting worked up over RT scores.

 

[bullets]

I absolutely think opinions can change over time. Not just with individuals, but among moviegoers as a whole as well. For example, On Her Majesty's Secret Service is far more highly thought of now than it was even ten years ago.

There have been several instances where something hasn't been appreciated during it's time. I think Blade Runner is another one. Speaking of which , I didn't enjoy the film until the third time I watched it.

 

[BestGirl]

I don't know about that. Plugging your ears and being unwilling to consider other opinions and not allowing your own opinion to change seems like it would just stifle discussion and debate.

It's not a matter of being unwilling to consider other opinions, it's a matter of not sneering at opposing opinions and constructing strawman arguments to make them easier to debate.